MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #5

[katydid23]

And because Crump and Company put their stamp of approval on him. They put him up there in the front row, right alongside Dr. Baden, during their big presser. :facepalm:

 

[Elley Mae]

In federal court earlier Monday, a judge denied a request from the American Civil Liberties Union for a restraining order that would have prevented authorities from enforcing the no-stopping rule.

A grand jury could begin hearing evidence Wednesday to determine whether the officer, Darren Wilson, should be charged in Brown's death, said Ed Magee, spokesman for St. Louis County's prosecuting attorney.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/1...nse-as-demonstrators-throw-bottles-at-police/

 

[Elley Mae]

Holder headed to Ferguson on Wednesday, will oversee federal response to shooting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...3a4d12-2694-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

 

[gramcracker]

hey, mdana :seeya:

there are so many truths I agree with in your post. I think my main disagreement is that (sweeping generalization alert) too many AAs have embraced a subculture which is not conducive to success. including the lionization of the rap/gangsta genre, which is the road to nowhere for everyone except for the rap artists

what we have been seeing in Ferguson demonstrates the reality of the mistakes made by a subculture common to AAs, although that is not exclusively so. my oldest (white) grandson loves him some rap, wears the saggies, and on FB lists "in the hood" as where he's from. when in reality he would be crying like a little kid and eaten alive if he had to spend 12 hours in a real "hood" (or jail)

IMO there is way too much disrespect directed at too many of their women which has a trickle down effect on too many children. there are numerous studies which document AA little ones starting school behind their peers by not knowing basics which have historically been taught at home before beginning school. students of all ages do better in school when families oversee the completion of homework and provide a quiet area to get homework done, and teach that breaking rules will have undesired consequences. it should be an embarassment to be arrested rather than a badge of honor/rite of passage

I think the truth of what I'm saying can be examined by looking at a generality such as the way Asian students are prepared for school (and life) by their families. their culture values education, respect for others, respect for self, good manners, hard work, and self-reliance. not that long ago parents in Cali were having all kinds of snits when a large influx of Asian students arrived and scarfed up most of the scholarships. (it happened elsewhere as well but I'm from SoCal so I remember that). if we can admit that the Asian side of the generality coin is pretty much valid then I think we can also admit that the AA side of the generality coin has equal validity. no one is going to "give" it to you - you have to invest time and effort in getting it, if you want it badly enough

(*you* being generic/general)

now when it comes to Native Americans, I think everything in your post applies. theirs is a true inequality and a damn shame. of course it will never happen but I think CA-OR-WA should be given to the NAs because every tribe would have the terrain its culture desires, is familiar with, and longs for

~ and all of the above is JMO ~

 

[Elley Mae]

Looking at the photo of the diagram at this link and visualizing MB running towards Officer Wilson the bullet holes are all in the same area. Think about your body in motion and where your arms are when you are in stride. Back and forth your arms swing, and the first shots where probably to the arms which would not stop him. According to baden the head shot was the last.


Brown was shot twice in the head, the examination showed: one bullet “entered just above the right eyebrow,” the other “to the very top of the head.” Brown was most likely bending over when the last shot was fired.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247?piano_d=1

 

[Sarahlou]

-
Sorrell sky- This is not exactly a direct response to your post. It started as one, but it got away from me. I am using it as a springboard, because there have been many posts with similar thoughts expressed. Any time I use the word you, I am referring to the general reader, not you specifically, except in this section. Don't feel like you have to respond or that I expect one. Unless, you are really moved to reply, then feel free.

Everyone Else- If this is pretentious or you disagree, point your wrath at me. Leave Sorrel sky out of it. If there is anything that rings false or absurd let me know.

-



People are frustrated and don't feel like they are treated as American citizens but as second class in the country of their birth. A man was gunned down in the street and the LE seems to be dragging their feet on investigating it compared to if the roles were reversed. Then instead of using community policing, the LE act like an occupying force. It isn't this one shooting incident that is causing this reaction, it is just the latest in a series, the biggest one being the scarcity of jobs for 18-30 yo. It is the old straw that broke the camel's back cliche.

I have heard more than once in these threads "where are the MLK's" or "MLK must be rolling over in his grave." Well people are intimidated into not channeling their inner MLK or Ghandi, because they were assassinated for their beliefs. An entire vanguard of leadership was wiped out in the 1960s, when JFK, Macolm X, MLK, and RFK were assassinated. The civil rights and left have never really recovered from that loss of leadership. Jesse Jackson as far as I can tell was no more than a security presence for MLK at the time of the assassination. The status quo is perfectly happy with leaders like Sharpton and Jackson, because they are not very effective and can be bought off with bribes if they ever stumble onto an effective message or method to provoke change.

Then you have lottery winners like Oprah who uses most of her wealth to make more money and allots more of her charity to African causes than here in the US. Or Jay-Z, Beyonce, and Kenya who making a living by asking those without to live vicariously through their lyrics and exploits. Others like Russell Simmons preach taking care of their own when on MSNBC or Real-time w/Bill Maher, but has no problem promoting "credit" cards that ask poor people to pay 15-20% surcharges to use their own money to restore their credit. MSNBC gives the illusion of caring during a story like this or Trayvon Martin, but other than a media firestorm like this other than the odd poorly researched Chris Hayes report on shootings in Chicago or gentrification impacts in Brooklyn on poor brown kids (African-American and Hispanics), nary a peep out of Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews. Lawrence O'Donnell only cares about Kids in Africa, kids in Atlanta he couldn't be bothered unless there is a controversial shooting. The rest of the time they are arguing about the stupidest Republican, or which Tea Party leader is the biggest racist. Fox goes in the other direction and stokes the fears and resentments of older Americans. Bill O'Reilly is demonizing and practically begging for one of his "patriots" to take care of a late term abortion provider. While Sean Hannity is praising a tax cheat and a squatter like Cliven Bundy.

A brave intelligent man with limited resources doesn't play a game that is rigged against him. He either changes the game (revolution) or quits (suicide). Most of us aren't that brave or intelligent so we muddle through with rationalizations, like I am not personally a racist, I give to charity, or I vote, so I can't possibly be part of the problem.

Think of it on a personal level. If your own young adult child (19 years old) attempted suicide, because he/she could not figure out a better way to communicate his/her rage of being ignored, lost, and hopelessness, I would hope you would not berate their intelligence or ignore their mental health problems by telling them they have only themselves to blame. You would get them mental health professionals as soon as possible and do everything in your power to get them the resources necessary to lead a productive and happy life if possible. Why, because you provided them with half their genetic makeup and provided their environment that created this crisis. Even if your child made some some poor personal choices along the way and you felt like you were the best parent you could be, you would feel a responsibility for how their life has turned out so far.

Well, in the American experience African-American's have been dealt a pretty lousy hand. Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, racial bias in LE, etc. have left a lingering impact that 50 some years of theoretical equality have not been able to eradicate. They have seen foreign waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, Germans, etc., face a generation of harsh racism or bias, but be accepted into the American Melting Pot as full americans with standards of living and wealth comparable to white Americans that have been here for generations. Yet, african-americans get passed by these new ethnic group.

Yes there are success stories like Oprah or a great athlete that makes more money in a week or month, than most of us will in a lifetime. However, those are the exceptions, not the rule. Under that unrealistic standard, why aren't all white American's as rich as Warren Buffet or Bill Gates? That is an absurd standard, but some people hold african-americans to that standard if they complain about the current power structure.

When a large part of our fellow native born citizens feel like acting like child when on the national stage in the words of some posters, maybe we should start treating them as adults with full rights afforded by the Constitution. What we are doing now does not seem to be working.

Very well said.

 

[gramcracker]

the Monday night tally: 2 wounded by gunfire, 31 arrests

 

[Suthrnqt]

the Monday night tally: 2 wounded by gunfire, 31 arrests

So did the promised PC ever happen??? I fell asleep. fftobed:

 

[Wysteria]

I think there's going to be another presser, like last night. Tim is gone to bed so I'm on this one

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

Thanks much for the link. I've been away from my computer packing for our upcoming vacation.

I was able to view the entire press conference.
Initially, 3 or 4 days ago, I felt very sorry for the Cpt. and some part of me still does. He looks exhausted and has a lot on his plate; to say the least. He is a good looking guy as well LOL; which has nothing to do with the issue at hand of course, so back to on topic...

I do have a few issues with his statements and the lack of statements he could have made.

He stated that he encouraged the protestors to come out during the day instead of after dark. As I view it; he is encouraging protesting. Although, it is undeniable that it's the right of every citizen to peacefully protest, I feel unsettled about this community "protesting" at all, because they are adding fuel to an already volatile situation. Is so clear to me that they are in deliberate denial of the facts that have come out so far.

I don't want it to appear that I believe taking the precious right away to protest peacefully is a good idea. However, I don't trust the people of this town. Not all of them; but the lying witnesses that have been uncovered, the facts of the incident itself, the deplorable albeit valuable U Tube video and while "protesting":

They are not telling the truth via there actions i.e.: kneeling on the ground with their hands in the air.
The signs that they hold are not the truth regarding the facts of this incident.
The things that they say are not the truth.

I've viewed the daytime "protesting" and it sure does not appear to be peaceful at all. Some of the time perhaps, but the general feeling I get is rage and anger.
The daytime "protesting" turns into nighttime mayhem.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't know how to restore sanity in the minds of these day and nighttime "protestors".

As far as adding things to his statement in this press conference i.e.: a public apology to the other victims of this incident, the truth about the known facts of the incident etc...Those statements would cause the protesters to feel even more incensed ; but aren't they responsible for their own behavior? Taking personal responsibility for their own conduct and behavior?

When is a good time to apologize to the other victims?

I do know one thing, what this town is doing so far is not working, and understatement for sure. So what to do? I don't know.

 

[Wysteria]

Ya, see link above.
I'm referring to the question asked in post 571...was there a press conference?

 

[rizzo0904]

How does a town like Ferguson find people willing to step up and be LE there? How do you protect and serve people that don't want you there, don't respect you, and don't respect themselves? I know this is a broad generalization and that there are some lovely families that live there, but this is ridiculous. And how can these "protestors" believe their behavior is acceptable? Why don't they want to better themselves and their community? I just can NOT get myself to understand their mindset.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

-
Sorrell sky- This is not exactly a direct response to your post. It started as one, but it got away from me. I am using it as a springboard, because there have been many posts with similar thoughts expressed. Any time I use the word you, I am referring to the general reader, not you specifically, except in this section. Don't feel like you have to respond or that I expect one. Unless, you are really moved to reply, then feel free.

Everyone Else- If this is pretentious or you disagree, point your wrath at me. Leave Sorrel sky out of it. If there is anything that rings false or absurd let me know.

-



People are frustrated and don't feel like they are treated as American citizens but as second class in the country of their birth. A man was gunned down in the street and the LE seems to be dragging their feet on investigating it compared to if the roles were reversed. Then instead of using community policing, the LE act like an occupying force. It isn't this one shooting incident that is causing this reaction, it is just the latest in a series, the biggest one being the scarcity of jobs for 18-30 yo. It is the old straw that broke the camel's back cliche.

I have heard more than once in these threads "where are the MLK's" or "MLK must be rolling over in his grave." Well people are intimidated into not channeling their inner MLK or Ghandi, because they were assassinated for their beliefs. An entire vanguard of leadership was wiped out in the 1960s, when JFK, Macolm X, MLK, and RFK were assassinated. The civil rights and left have never really recovered from that loss of leadership. Jesse Jackson as far as I can tell was no more than a security presence for MLK at the time of the assassination. The status quo is perfectly happy with leaders like Sharpton and Jackson, because they are not very effective and can be bought off with bribes if they ever stumble onto an effective message or method to provoke change.

Then you have lottery winners like Oprah who uses most of her wealth to make more money and allots more of her charity to African causes than here in the US. Or Jay-Z, Beyonce, and Kenya who making a living by asking those without to live vicariously through their lyrics and exploits. Others like Russell Simmons preach taking care of their own when on MSNBC or Real-time w/Bill Maher, but has no problem promoting "credit" cards that ask poor people to pay 15-20% surcharges to use their own money to restore their credit. MSNBC gives the illusion of caring during a story like this or Trayvon Martin, but other than a media firestorm like this other than the odd poorly researched Chris Hayes report on shootings in Chicago or gentrification impacts in Brooklyn on poor brown kids (African-American and Hispanics), nary a peep out of Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews. Lawrence O'Donnell only cares about Kids in Africa, kids in Atlanta he couldn't be bothered unless there is a controversial shooting. The rest of the time they are arguing about the stupidest Republican, or which Tea Party leader is the biggest racist. Fox goes in the other direction and stokes the fears and resentments of older Americans. Bill O'Reilly is demonizing and practically begging for one of his "patriots" to take care of a late term abortion provider. While Sean Hannity is praising a tax cheat and a squatter like Cliven Bundy.

A brave intelligent man with limited resources doesn't play a game that is rigged against him. He either changes the game (revolution) or quits (suicide). Most of us aren't that brave or intelligent so we muddle through with rationalizations, like I am not personally a racist, I give to charity, or I vote, so I can't possibly be part of the problem.

Think of it on a personal level. If your own young adult child (19 years old) attempted suicide, because he/she could not figure out a better way to communicate his/her rage of being ignored, lost, and hopelessness, I would hope you would not berate their intelligence or ignore their mental health problems by telling them they have only themselves to blame. You would get them mental health professionals as soon as possible and do everything in your power to get them the resources necessary to lead a productive and happy life if possible. Why, because you provided them with half their genetic makeup and provided their environment that created this crisis. Even if your child made some some poor personal choices along the way and you felt like you were the best parent you could be, you would feel a responsibility for how their life has turned out so far.

Well, in the American experience African-American's have been dealt a pretty lousy hand. Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, racial bias in LE, etc. have left a lingering impact that 50 some years of theoretical equality have not been able to eradicate. They have seen foreign waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, Germans, etc., face a generation of harsh racism or bias, but be accepted into the American Melting Pot as full americans with standards of living and wealth comparable to white Americans that have been here for generations. Yet, african-americans get passed by these new ethnic group.

Yes there are success stories like Oprah or a great athlete that makes more money in a week or month, than most of us will in a lifetime. However, those are the exceptions, not the rule. Under that unrealistic standard, why aren't all white American's as rich as Warren Buffet or Bill Gates? That is an absurd standard, but some people hold african-americans to that standard if they complain about the current power structure.

When a large part of our fellow native born citizens feel like acting like child when on the national stage in the words of some posters, maybe we should start treating them as adults with full rights afforded by the Constitution. What we are doing now does not seem to be working.

I'm sorry but there is so much that I disagree with in your post that I wouldn't know where to begin.
I profoundly disagree, but respect your voice in this matter.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

A woman who lives in the complex and asked not to be identified for fear of being targeted by residents and police said she heard the commotion and ran to her balcony. She said Brown threw his hands up in the air, shouting, "Don't shoot!"

"The officer kept shooting and he fell to his knees, begging for his life," the woman said. "That's when he finished him off, shot him in the head."

The woman said she works in a warehouse and moved here in March with her 2-year-old daughter to escape the violence in inner-city St. Louis.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-michael-brown-20140817-story.html

I have no idea why someone feels witnesses arent' telling the truth unless it's a witness that backs LE, then it's the truth, even if just regurgitating what was heard.

Such sweeping comments when no one was there..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-michael-brown-20140817-story.html

I have no idea why someone feels witnesses arent' telling the truth unless it's a witness that backs LE, then it's the truth, even if just regurgitating what was heard.

Such sweeping comments when no one was there..

.....probably for the same reasons some people don't want to believe MB robbed the convenience store of cigars & intimidated the store clerk--even though it's clear on the video.

Simply put, we all want to see what we want to see. We're all biased.

 

[Apollo]

I'm sorry but there is so much that I disagree with in your post that I wouldn't know where to begin.
I profoundly disagree, but respect your voice in this matter.

I think it was a very well thought out post however, I disagree with parts of it too. I'll begin with the second sentence: 'A man was gunned down in the street and the LE seems to be dragging their feet on investigating it'. I don't know if that's correct. It could just as well be: ' A strong armed robber was shot by police after he assaulted an officer and attempted to gain control of the officer's weapon'. Is LE dragging their feet on this investigation? I don't know that either. How the heck does anyone know what LE is doing while we're banging away on our keyboards?

 

[Suthrnqt]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-michael-brown-20140817-story.html

I have no idea why someone feels witnesses arent' telling the truth unless it's a witness that backs LE, then it's the truth, even if just regurgitating what was heard.

Such sweeping comments when no one was there..

Well, I think Dr. Baden's autopsy report debunked the whole "his hands were in the air" myth.

And, using Foxfire's go to quote here:
For those who believe, no proof is necessary and for those who disbelieve, no proof is possible.~~ Stuart Chase

 

[Really?]

I wonder how many of the protesters have sought a career with law enforcement ?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My heart goes out to Capt Johns*n at the presser......he is the voice of calm but direct leadership.
His message is clear: peaceful protests in the daytime.

 

[Sonya610]

IMO the authorities better think long and hard before even considering charges against Off Wilson without very strong damning evidence.

If they charge that officer and there is a sham trial to appease the protestors things will really heat up and a whole lot of folks in this country will be VERY peeved off. There will be a LOT of support for that officer and that sure won't play will with the protestors.

Everyone knows opinions became heated during the Z trial, this one will be far far worse and I seriously doubt if WS would even be able to keep threads open.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think it was a very well thought out post however, I disagree with parts of it too. I'll begin with the second sentence: 'A man was gunned down in the street and the LE seems to be dragging their feet on investigating it'. I don't know if that's correct. It could just as well be: ' A strong armed robber was shot by police after he assaulted an officer and attempted to gain control of the officer's weapon'. Is LE dragging their feet on this investigation? I don't know that either. How the heck does anyone know what LE is doing while we're banging away on our keyboards?

Apollo-----there were many parts of the poster (#556) viewpoints I disagree with but most vehemently disagree with his/her views of assimilation of certain subsets gaining "entry" into a successful role within our society. Since the poster specifically mentioned my ancestry & assumed the ease of assimilation (which is not true---it was far from easy), I figured I'd go only as far as to say that I disagree.
Rather than looking at the statistics on subsets that have eventually assimilated with success, I feel the true learning & change comes from focusing on why certain subsets fail.

Anger at others that consumes the heart & soul eventually eats away at itself 'til there's only a shell of a human left standing. It may sound trite but peace is the only answer.