MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #5

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  • #601
  • #602
There is more than one person who said they saw MB jerk around like he had been hit and it is possible the first shot hit him in the arm. It makes sense that it would cause him to spin around or react by looking back at the officer.

Looking at all possibilities it is possible he was shot while facing away and then turned and was shot again facing forward.

Just watched Kobilinsky say the same thing. It just can not be discounted. If you want to find the truth you have to consider all the relevant possibilities. If not then neither side is open to the truth.

Sure, it's possible---it just doesn't make any sense to me. If he was shot in the right arm and turned around, I would think it would be an automatic response to grab his wound with his left hand----not hold up both arms. And when he was shot 3 more times in his right arm, I would think he would fall backwards---not forwards.
 
  • #603
The first shot could have been from inside the car as they allegedly struggled for the gun.
I don't think so. I don't think he was hit in the car. If so there will be his blood in the car so we will see. but I think all the shots that hit him came after.
 
  • #604
Will anything change today to prevent further violence tonight? Can anything prevent further violence tonight besides the arrest of Office Williams? I also notice increased comments in the media about the fact he is on paid leave right now. jmo
 
  • #605
  • #606
Sure, it's possible---it just doesn't make any sense to me. If he was shot in the right arm and turned around, I would think it would be an automatic response to grab his wound with his left hand----not hold up both arms. And when he was shot 3 more times in his right arm, I would think he would fall backwards---not forwards.

Why? If he was shot in the right arm and then raised his arms up as he was turning around, and and raising his hands up or forward, it is just as possible to be shot again in the right side. What does him being shot in the arm have to do with him falling forward? He fell forward because his head was in a downward position when he was shot through the head. It killed him and he was leaning forward to he fell forward. It is the only way to get that shot down through the top of his head.
 
  • #607
I think this guy is a "gump" appointee. There is no way Baden would willing associate with him. I'm guessing it's b/c clearly he is willing to promote the narrative by spending his day making the rounds on every news program.

The problem with his appearances is it all depends on how the anchor asks the question. If it's sort of vague or open ended (like with Shepard smith yesterday afternoon) he just straight up says, "the report is consistent with eyewitness accounts" and unlike Baden just leaves it there.

IMO he's actually going to be the cause of a lot of problems.

ITA

Can someone who twitters send out a warning about this Parcells guy?

Warn people and media like Shepherd Smith, cnn, Fox, MSNBC, and provide clear citations about his creds?

It's vital that everyone be aware of who can be trusted to help shed light vs needless confusion and misinformation.

Here's the link posted here:
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...578f-9487-8ab6a176ea4d.html?mobile_touch=true

That needs to go viral, imo. He's set himself up as a public figure, and people deserve to know to be careful.
 
  • #608
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Sorrell sky- This is not exactly a direct response to your post. It started as one, but it got away from me. I am using it as a springboard, because there have been many posts with similar thoughts expressed. Any time I use the word you, I am referring to the general reader, not you specifically, except in this section. Don't feel like you have to respond or that I expect one. Unless, you are really moved to reply, then feel free.

Everyone Else- If this is pretentious or you disagree, point your wrath at me. Leave Sorrel sky out of it. If there is anything that rings false or absurd let me know.

-



People are frustrated and don't feel like they are treated as American citizens but as second class in the country of their birth. A man was gunned down in the street and the LE seems to be dragging their feet on investigating it compared to if the roles were reversed. Then instead of using community policing, the LE act like an occupying force. It isn't this one shooting incident that is causing this reaction, it is just the latest in a series, the biggest one being the scarcity of jobs for 18-30 yo. It is the old straw that broke the camel's back cliche.

I have heard more than once in these threads "where are the MLK's" or "MLK must be rolling over in his grave." Well people are intimidated into not channeling their inner MLK or Ghandi, because they were assassinated for their beliefs. An entire vanguard of leadership was wiped out in the 1960s, when JFK, Macolm X, MLK, and RFK were assassinated. The civil rights and left have never really recovered from that loss of leadership. Jesse Jackson as far as I can tell was no more than a security presence for MLK at the time of the assassination. The status quo is perfectly happy with leaders like Sharpton and Jackson, because they are not very effective and can be bought off with bribes if they ever stumble onto an effective message or method to provoke change.

Then you have lottery winners like Oprah who uses most of her wealth to make more money and allots more of her charity to African causes than here in the US. Or Jay-Z, Beyonce, and Kenya who making a living by asking those without to live vicariously through their lyrics and exploits. Others like Russell Simmons preach taking care of their own when on MSNBC or Real-time w/Bill Maher, but has no problem promoting "credit" cards that ask poor people to pay 15-20% surcharges to use their own money to restore their credit. MSNBC gives the illusion of caring during a story like this or Trayvon Martin, but other than a media firestorm like this other than the odd poorly researched Chris Hayes report on shootings in Chicago or gentrification impacts in Brooklyn on poor brown kids (African-American and Hispanics), nary a peep out of Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews. Lawrence O'Donnell only cares about Kids in Africa, kids in Atlanta he couldn't be bothered unless there is a controversial shooting. The rest of the time they are arguing about the stupidest Republican, or which Tea Party leader is the biggest racist. Fox goes in the other direction and stokes the fears and resentments of older Americans. Bill O'Reilly is demonizing and practically begging for one of his "patriots" to take care of a late term abortion provider. While Sean Hannity is praising a tax cheat and a squatter like Cliven Bundy.

A brave intelligent man with limited resources doesn't play a game that is rigged against him. He either changes the game (revolution) or quits (suicide). Most of us aren't that brave or intelligent so we muddle through with rationalizations, like I am not personally a racist, I give to charity, or I vote, so I can't possibly be part of the problem.

Think of it on a personal level. If your own young adult child (19 years old) attempted suicide, because he/she could not figure out a better way to communicate his/her rage of being ignored, lost, and hopelessness, I would hope you would not berate their intelligence or ignore their mental health problems by telling them they have only themselves to blame. You would get them mental health professionals as soon as possible and do everything in your power to get them the resources necessary to lead a productive and happy life if possible. Why, because you provided them with half their genetic makeup and provided their environment that created this crisis. Even if your child made some some poor personal choices along the way and you felt like you were the best parent you could be, you would feel a responsibility for how their life has turned out so far.

Well, in the American experience African-American's have been dealt a pretty lousy hand. Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, racial bias in LE, etc. have left a lingering impact that 50 some years of theoretical equality have not been able to eradicate. They have seen foreign waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, Germans, etc., face a generation of harsh racism or bias, but be accepted into the American Melting Pot as full americans with standards of living and wealth comparable to white Americans that have been here for generations. Yet, african-americans get passed by these new ethnic group.

Yes there are success stories like Oprah or a great athlete that makes more money in a week or month, than most of us will in a lifetime. However, those are the exceptions, not the rule. Under that unrealistic standard, why aren't all white American's as rich as Warren Buffet or Bill Gates? That is an absurd standard, but some people hold african-americans to that standard if they complain about the current power structure.

When a large part of our fellow native born citizens feel like acting like child when on the national stage in the words of some posters, maybe we should start treating them as adults with full rights afforded by the Constitution. What we are doing now does not seem to be working.

Not intended as opposition or antithesis to your post, more as a supplement, as I agree with some parts. I would include the following when discussing the issue...

Politicians who pander and exploit blacks trading enabling entitlements for votes to remain in power

Activists and leaders who take advantage of situations like this to further their brand

Stop identifying athletes and entertainers as the example of successfully escaping despair, rather than focusing on the average middle class worker, doctor, lawyer and entrepreneur as the template for success

Stop labeling black voices of reason like Bill Cosby and Ben Carson as Uncle Toms who've been brainwashed by whites when they are critical of the black community or point out what can be changed from within

Probably most important, focus one's energy on regaining traditional family structure with fathers in the home that give love and support that coincide with discipline, rather than counting on street lords and police to be the only discipline many kids ever know, which is obviously discipline by limitation and punishment that lacks the nurturing, the structure, and the affection that every child needs to have respect, confidence, and humility.
 
  • #609
  • #610
And when he was shot 3 more times in his right arm, I would think he would fall backwards---not forwards.

The body falls depending on where the center of gravity is (i.e. if someone is running forward their center of gravity would cause them to fall forward when dropping).

Handgun rounds don't really "knock someone backwards", especially a huge 300 lb target, they penetrate and then the body falls in the direction the weight is distributed.
 
  • #611
I don't think so. I don't think he was hit in the car. If so there will be his blood in the car so we will see. but I think all the shots that hit him came after.

How do you know there isn't his blood on the car or in the car? Police hasn't released the results as far as I can tell.
 
  • #612
Can LE limit how much media can be in the area? I ask because it seems like media has doubled since Sunday night. It was ridiculous how many were down there last night and in the way imo.
 
  • #613
ITA

Can someone who twitters send out a warning about this Parcells guy?

Warn people and media like Shepherd Smith, cnn, Fox, MSNBC, and provide clear citations about his creds?

It's vital that everyone be aware of who can be trusted to help shed light vs needless confusion and misinformation.

Here's the link posted here:
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...578f-9487-8ab6a176ea4d.html?mobile_touch=true

That needs to go viral, imo. He's set himself up as a public figure, and people deserve to know to be careful.
STL sent the original story out that I posted here... it went out on twitter to other media.
 
  • #614
How do you know there isn't his blood on the car or in the car? Police hasn't released the results as far as I can tell.

I have not see any reports of MB being shot in the car. I believe all the shots happened in the street. To me if he had been shot in the car because he was struggling with gun and there was proof of that they would have offered it as a reason this guy was shot in the first place.
 
  • #615
Medical Examiners know there is a critical difference between being shot "on the front" and "from the front".

My recollection is that both MEs (not Parcels or Lawyers) used the term "From the front".

Can we clear this up?
 
  • #616
Why? If he was shot in the right arm and then raised his arms up as he was turning around, and and raising his hands up or forward, it is just as possible to be shot again in the right side. What does him being shot in the arm have to do with him falling forward? He fell forward because his head was in a downward position when he was shot through the head. It killed him and he was leaning forward to he fell forward. It is the only way to get that shot down through the top of his head.

It doesn't make any sense (to me) that when someone is shot in the arm, they would continue to hold their arm UP. Yes, he was leaning forward when he was shot in the head---obviously. And leaning forward seems to suggest he was MOVING forward--toward the officer. As in-----bum rushing him.
 
  • #617
So DJ claimed MB was shot in the back while running from the officer. Then he clarifies his statement after the autopsy report by saying maybe not his back but the back of his right arm. He then says MB turned around and faced the officer and the officer continued shooting. If MB turned around, then his left arm should have now been in the line of fire. Guess the officer must have re-aimed in order to be able to continue shooting at the right arm. (Who believes that????)

ETA: If I was running from someone who was shooting at me and I got hit somewhere in the back, I'd hit the ground. I wouldn't turn around and face the person shooting at me.
On a somewhat related point, has anyone else noted the positioning of MB's arms in the store video and how his "open" stance exposes the medial aspects of his arms?

I don't know if it's due to his size, physiology, or aggression, but it seems important to me. Imo
 
  • #618
I still think this is where Michael Browns palm hand was hit. Reaching for the police officers gun.But he could possibly have been hit else where too.It says here his gun was turned against his hip at some point.What would that mean?

<modsnip>
 
  • #619
Medical Examiners know there is a critical difference between being shot "on the front" and "from the front".

My recollection is that both MEs (not Parcels or Lawyers) used the term "From the front".

Can we clear this up?

WaPo: "The autopsy by St. Louis County chief medical examiner Mary Case, released to state prosecutors late Friday, found that Brown, 18, had six gunshot wounds to the head and chest and was shot from the front, the people said"
 
  • #620
I wonder how many of the protesters have sought a career with law enforcement ?

I wonder how many have sought a career?
 
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