MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #7

[Lovejac]

Antonia French thinks the shooting yesterday was legal and justified. Link in a second.


https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/with_replies

This guy is all kinds of backasswards IMO

Has he even seen the video of yesterday's shooting?

 

[Elley Mae]

This is significant to me.

I wanted to watch the vid of Powell on NG from last night b/c I wanted to hear th3 "u-turn" comment in context.

I had to stop watching, b/c in the first few moments they put up this graphic, which includes info discussed at Baden's press conference. At that press conference they showed the bullet wound diagram, but not like this, and this IMO shows the info in a much clearer way.

This diagram, suggesting the possible re-entry wounds makes the "shots 6 times," statement less damning so to speak. By highlighting the possible re-entry wounds in this way, I better understand why MB could have remained "aggressive" toward Wilson after the first 4 shots. Also, considering that this all happened in seconds, the idea of "shot six times," doesn't seem excessive.

All Moo

IIRC Yesterday I said looking at the gun shots and visualizing a person running at you/coming at you, and the motion of a persons arms the 6 shots are pretty much at center mass. When a person runs their arms actually end up in the center of your body bent at the elbows, unlike walking where your arms hang and swing back and forth.It will be interesting to know if there were any bullets left and how many did not hit their target. More then likely a 9mm. jmo

 

[SilkySifaka]

From Fox, one of the cover pics they used for a story.

Not a very flattering image:

Is there a problem with someone carrying the American flag? I think it is an uplifting image, no matter how many beat downs, bad arrests and socioeconomic poverty the black people suffer, one still believes in America

imo

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

It would probably be helpful to have a pinned or introductory post here for collating relevant links, quotes, and timeline. I would be happy to help with that to assist late-comers to the story as it continues to evolve.

Thank you for that offer! That is a great idea. I spend a lot of time trying to find a link when I want to comment on something.

 

[bettybaby00]

I am really missing something here, I think. I'm going to blame it on not having enough coffee -- I'm just not mentally "up to speed", but what did he mean, at the end (like, the last 3 seconds) when he said, "What happened to Michael Brown shouldn't happen to any American?"

He shouldn't have been shot by police? (If this is what he's saying...and if the officer's account of what happened turns out to be the truth, then whose fault was it that MB was shot??)
He shouldn't have assaulted an officer? (allegedly)
He shouldn't have roughed up the clerk? (allegedly)
He should have chosen a better life for himself?

I was right with him until that point...and then it's like his comment made no sense.

Anyone have any insight into what he was referring to?

Thanks for your help!

BBM

Your last question I feel is what is at the crux of his ending comment, but that idea encompasses all that is wrong, and unjust in this situation.

For example, shouldn't MBs community be one that ensures it's citizens have opportunities? A stable home life, good jobs, good educational opportunities.

Shouldn't these kids be able to grow up with a realistic notion of wrong and right? A healthy respect for authority, b/c that authority has your best interest at heart, regardless of the color of your skin.

If so, then maybe, just maybe MB wouldn't have made the choices he did. And if his community hadn't failed him in these ways, isn't it possible that the last 1/2 hour or so of Michaels life could have been different?

That's what I got from it

JMO

 

[Lovejac]

This is coming from a Black Man! And I think it needs to be heard! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B092acMImJE I found it on a youtube video, taking the facebook page down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B092acMImJE

Dang it, he is hot mad!

He is calling out the NAACP, The New Black Panthers, civil rights leaders, Al Sharpton, et al!

 

[SheltieMom1]

Another random thought I can't but wonder out loud. I don't know how to put it very well, but here goes...

How many dishes of eggs in their face do Sharpton and his ilk need before they decide it would behoove them to avoid jumping to conclusions?

I followed the LaCrosse story and enough others to be amazed that they aren't hiding in a hole somewhere. They have made enough money off of stoking outrage, I bet they could even afford a nice hole.

IMO Al Sharpton is completely incapable of shame, so I think the answer to your question is "there are not enough eggs to make any difference." He has proven, time and time again, from Tawana Brawley, to Crown Heights, to Freddy's Fashion Mart, to Duke Lacrosse that he is immune to facts. Not only does he not accept a narrative different than the one he embraces, he actively and affirmatively tries to discredit evidence tending to show his version of events is inaccurate. In doing this, he stokes paranoia, fear and distrust in the community to such a degree that certain people have become impervious to logic. All evidence in contradistinction to Sharpton's narrative is planted, falsified, manufactured, manipulated, etc. This becomes a troubling trend because you cannot reason with anyone who will not accept proof of anything other than evidence which tends to support their theory. In psychology, they call it confirmation bias, but IMO this goes beyond that. It isn't merely cherry picking or only accepting or focusing on evidence that suits your agenda. It entails poisoning others by spreading lies, rumor and innuendo about the sufficiency or validity of facts which support any other view. Hope that made sense.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Retweeted by Matt Pearce
​

Alex Ogle ‏@Alex_Ogle 39m
With another powerful photo, Scott Olson also just got the front cover of latest issue of @BW
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvj5nt4CEAAGMxF.jpg

Oh, that cover. :notgood:​

It is sad that a little girl now knows that because of her color she can be shot by LE..or profiled. Which is a reality, blacks are profiled by LE.

However the picture itself is rather sweet

 

[popsicle]

Is there a problem with someone carrying the American flag? I think it is an uplifting image, no matter how many beat downs, bad arrests and socioeconomic poverty the black people suffer, one still believes in America

imo

He is carrying it upside down on purpose!

 

[Lovejac]

With all due respect, no one was ostracized, unless they busted off a "you think Mike deserved to die", "you want to give Wilson a medal" or they led with "racial bias". I comprehended their perspective when I thought it was based on the "good kid, three witnesses, multiple shots of an unarmed teen" theory. That is what had me in the excessive force camp in the beginning.

When we found out Mike flashed gang sings, smoked the devil's lettuce, and wasn't the ambitious scholar we thought, I still comprehended their perspective. When Mike handled the store employee while stealing cigars commonly used to roll blunts, Mike wasn't the good kid that was sold to the public. Thus, part of that "good kid" perspective was erased. Then the witnesses went south, for me based on nothing more than my analysis of their statements. So the "three witnesses" perspective was lost. Then the statement from the chief about the facial injury, the cop's version through the friend, and the bystander in the Black Canseco video came about and the final piece of perspective was gone for me. Multiple shots of an unarmed teen was now seen in a new light.

As each piece of information was posted, some folks carried on like the information didn't exist. It was ignored, rejected, or minimized. We asked for their thoughts on each piece of information and there was no acknowledgement that anything carried any weight. No one responded to the questions. All they did is push forward with the same conclusion, even though the perspective I comprehended was now more or less gone. Now I wonder if the perspective was ever based on any of the three things I considered germane in the beginning, one poster acknowledged it wasn't early on and one openly commented on it earlier in this thread.

I guess the clearest way I can say it is, defend Mike reasonably and things will remain cordial. If defending Mike requires unreasonably victimizing someone else, there's going to some scrutiny. If that scrutiny makes one feel ostracized, I would hope they would consider their own thought processes along with those of everyone else. Isn't that the essence of a good discussion, to validate the integrity of what we think and feel? It's how I try to roll.

As an aside, I hope that perhaps the moderators would allow a discussion of the bigger picture at play here, perhaps in the "basement" as some refer to it. I think those who feel ostracized might find more support on a more generalized level than on a specific incident, especially this one. This certainly isn't one I'd go all-in on if I were to play race activist, you'd lose as much support as you'd gain obviously. Racism and racial bias does exist and does need to end once and for all. I just don't think it exists here.

BTW, I'd prefer the PP be moved up on the page and call it "the attic" going forward.

Thank you for this post! Now I don't feel embarassed to admit that I was once in the "excessive force" camp.

And you just perfectly described my transition to where I stand now.

 

[DeDee]

An Open Letter to Captain Ronald S. Johnson; From former St. Louis Metro Area Police Chief Delmore

Chief Ed Delmore

Chief Ed Delmore has been a police officer since 1982. He has served as a patrol officer, undercover narcotics investigator, patrol sergeant, watch commander, deputy chief, and chief of police. For several years he was the working commander of the most successful city criminal interdiction unit in the State of Illinois. He currently serves as the Chief of Police in Gulf Shores, Alabama.

"Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your “hug-a-looter” policy had failed."

"Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—********. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown’s mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it."

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

ETA ~ I missed the "hug a looter" tweet on Twitter.

 

[DebinGA]

Johnson's attorney was just interviewed on CNN. He stated Johnson has not changed his story. The interviewer went though the incident step by step with him and it's the same as his intial version. Wilson grabbed MB by the neck, MB got away and ran, Wilson shot at him, MB turned around and put his hands up, Wilson continued to shoot until MB was dead.

ETA: Nothing about a struggle for the gun. Nothing about Wilson getting punched in the face.

"Wilson grabbed MB by the neck": DW's reported account is that when he attempted to leave his cruiser, MB (and perhaps DJ) "pushed him back inside" (leaving car door open) as MB, above a now"sprawled" (jmo) DW, rained several mighty downward blows into DW's face/head. DJ's "he grabbed MB by the neck" might be true in that scenario, as Ofc. Wilson would have surely tried his hardest to push MB backward away from him, especially over the struggle for his gun.

"MB got away and ran": Ofc. Wilson's account seems to agree with that.

"Wilson shot at him": St Louis Co Police Chief Jon Belmar was quoted yesterday saying DW fired several shots that missed in pursuit of MB.

"MB turned around and put his hands up": IIRC Chief Belmar agreed with that, adding that MB told Ofc. Wilson, "What? You gonna shoot me?" I don't know who claimed MB was 35' from Wilson when this occurred, but that's less than 12 yds., very close.

"Wilson continued to shoot until MB was dead": That's true.

DJ's story leaves out the struggle over the gun, MB pounding DW's face, and MB's fatal decision to charge Wilson at the end.

 

[Muffet]

Thank you for that offer! That is a great idea. I spend a lot of time trying to find a link when I want to comment on something.

I do too.

There is a growing number of people out there still pushing lines we have proof to show false.

They don't know the chief announced from the start the assault on Wilson and his need for medical care.

They don't know about the latest statements by the Brown lawyer that admit it.

They are back to questioning the veracity of the strong-arm robbery

They are saying that things they are only hearing now should have been reported from the beginning, despite the fact that many were, and are not acknoedgimg the restrictions (political and traditional) placed on LE in releasing information.

 

[fran]

Attention Please!

I'm seeing photos and some articles without links. If you have posted any photos or articles and did not provide a link, if it's too late for you to add it, please send me a pm that includes the link and the number of post.

I'll leave these up for the next hour or two. But if I don't get links, we'll have to remove your post.

TIA
fran

:wave:

 

[Sonya610]

Apparently, THEY need to go back to school.

I do not think more education will make even a tiny difference.

 

[Elley Mae]

It is sad that a little girl now knows that because of her color she can be shot by LE..or profiled. Which is a reality, blacks are profiled by LE.

However the picture itself is rather sweet

Five will get you ten that if she was asked why she was holding her arms up she would probably say because they told me to or that she was doing it because all the others were doing it.jmo

 

[SStarr33]

It is sad that a little girl now knows that because of her color she can be shot by LE..or profiled. Which is a reality, blacks are profiled by LE.

However the picture itself is rather sweet

She should be ok as long as her parents are teaching her not to assault a police officer and try to steal his gun.

 

[krimekat]

I really wish it were possible to install an all-black police force in Ferguson. It would be interesting to see how crime would be handled then, if crime rates would lower, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/justice/ferguson-residents-police-history/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

wouldn't that be segregation? wasn't there a HUGE movement to end segregation?

And just why aren't there "enough" black LEs hired in Ferguson? Because they don't have the qualifications or don't apply to work in that municipality

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have asked the same questions that you do.

I think that the reason is this: if this information is released; the reaction to the information would be a disaster; considering how the MB supporters have conducted themselves and the untruths that have been said in interviews, what is being said at the "protests", the signs held in the "protests", what was said at the memorial, the interviews of the witnesses, etc..

It's already a disaster, refer to links regarding what the family attorney has stated, the family itself has stated, what Sharpton et. al have said, the "protesting", the rioting...all of it.

Releasing any information that exonerates the LEO would be a big mistake, due to the facts that I have stated above.

I have asked many questions regarding the GJ on the other thread, and I have come to realize that the decisions made in this case are to quell any actions(hysteria/deaths/violence/looting), by the supporters of MB.

I do not believe that a GJ should be considering this case at all. In my eyes; there is no probable cause.
Look at how fast this grand jury has been convened.

I honestly believe that the decisions made in this incident, have been made out of fear (and possibly some sort of cover-up situation?), refer to the UTube video and to the statements of the witnesses.

Think of what the MB supporters reaction would be to any further information supporting the LEO. The MB supporters are controlling very, very important decisions and actions. Why are they allowed to have this control? It is unfair and unjust.

Look at how the "protesters" are permitted to continue to spread mistruths (to the point of plain deliberate denial as to the real truth of this incident); at the very courthouse where this grand jury is responsible for making decisions that could potentially cause even further the damage to the LEO's life.

The LEO's life has been changed forever; enough is enough.

I think that the LEO is suffering because of the very dangerous decisions that were deliberately made by a man who strong armed, bullied and robbed a shopkeeper, refused to follow a simple order to get out of the middle of the street, attacked the officer, resisted arrest and more importantly attempted to get the LEO's gun. Have I left anything out? Oh yes, wait...the cigars he robbed are typically used to make blunts. The contents of the cigars are emptied out and pot is put in. I firmly believe that IMO, IMO, IMO, MB was indeed going to make blunts out of the stolen cigars.

I've just noticed while previewing my post that my post seems preachy to me, which is not my intention. Additionally, I've tried very hard to avoid politics in my post. Many here have a wonderful gift regarding how they express their opinions and thoughts. I lack that gift.

~please pardon my spelling and grammar, I wrote this post in haste.~

This grand jury was already seated & working


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lovejac]

Matt Pearce ‏@mattdpearce 3m
"I am the attorney general of the United States. But I am also a black man." Eric Holder today. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0821-ferguson-holder-20140821-story.html …

No. Really? Thanks for the heads up there, Mr. Holder.