MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #7

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  • #961
Also hindsight helps you realize things that could have been done. The cops are heading to places after near by police have already been threatened. Watching the video I could see that maybe there was a way to stop him without shooting but I do not have a knife holding person in front of me. I have the ability to replay the image before I make my call they do not its a one time deal.

Agree. Also, I can't remember if the Alderwoman stated to 911 that he had a second knife, or if that was after the shooting. If that had been passed on to police via 911, they would have thought there was even more danger.
 
  • #962
These are two separate 'conversations'. One has nothing to do with the other, so comparing them and placing them side by side is inappropriate in that it doesn't help solve either problem.

I believe they're one in the same.
The culture of not working with law enforcement, not talking, ratting, squealing for fear of retaliation from the criminal element does nothing to help the community. It allows criminals to thrive flourish and basically run the community.

Clearly a bridge needs to be built between law enforcement and communities..if citizens want things to improve and the community safer. Law enforcement shouldn't be the enemy, the criminals should be. If there are bad cops, they need to be weeded out just like the criminals....because that's exactly what bad cops are.

All IMO


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  • #963
As I said before, I want to believe DW did not intentionally execute MB. However, I still have questions about what actually happened. If it wasn't an execution, was it reckless or excessive? IDK. The new witness, Michael Brady, although somewhat different than Tiffany & Piaget accounts, also states that DW was shooting @ MB as he fled. How does this factor in to the overall incident?

There's a "fleeing felon" statute that covers this iirc, but whether it absolves this officer in this case idk. What seems indisputable now though is that MB wasn't hit from behind by DW.
 
  • #964
"Wilson grabbed MB by the neck": DW's reported account is that when he attempted to leave his cruiser, MB (and perhaps DJ) "pushed him back inside" (leaving car door open) as MB, above a now"sprawled" (jmo) DW, rained several mighty downward blows into DW's face/head. DJ's "he grabbed MB by the neck" might be true in that scenario, as Ofc. Wilson would have surely tried his hardest to push MB backward away from him, especially over the struggle for his gun.

"MB got away and ran": Ofc. Wilson's account seems to agree with that.

"Wilson shot at him": St Louis Co Police Chief Jon Belmar was quoted yesterday saying DW fired several shots that missed in pursuit of MB.

"MB turned around and put his hands up": IIRC Chief Belmar agreed with that, adding that MB told Ofc. Wilson, "What? You gonna shoot me?" I don't know who claimed MB was 35' from Wilson when this occurred, but that's less than 12 yds., very close.

"Wilson continued to shoot until MB was dead": That's true.

DJ's story leaves out the struggle over the gun, MB pounding DW's face, and MB's fatal decision to charge Wilson at the end.

And DJs version isn't supported by the autopsy. It showed there was no signs of a struggle. That's because MB wasn't the one struggling, he wasn't being held by the neck and trying to get away. The autopsy surely would've showed bruising if the officer was holding him by the neck and he was pushing against the car trying to get away like some witnesses say.
No he was the aggressor and the autopsy IMO shows that, by showing no signs of that struggle.
Some believe the gash on the right hand came from that struggle. Mark the detective on the Megyn Kelly show yesterday suggested that it's possible that wound happened in the car during the struggle for the gun.

This is all IMO, I wish more evidence would be leaked
 
  • #965
  • #966
As I said before, I want to believe DW did not intentionally execute MB. However, I still have questions about what actually happened. If it wasn't an execution, was it reckless or excessive? IDK. The new witness, Michael Brady, although somewhat different than Tiffany & Piaget accounts, also states that DW was shooting @ MB as he fled. How does this factor in to the overall incident?

I'm wondering how him having been punched in the head will play out here. If he gets indicted, will the defense use that to show impaired judgement? And if they do, is that something that could get him acquitted. I think it could.
 
  • #967
Agreed. Once things calm down they need to get police officers and good community members in schools, talk grade level to these students all the way up to high school. Invite their parents to listen in b/c I think many do not understand it themselves. Teaching them about laws, ways to get your message across the right way, how court systems works etc.....
This needs to be used as a teaching tool.

superb idea
 
  • #968
That's what soooo upsetting to me. No one cares about black on black crime. Young black are killed routinely in major cities everywhere by young black men. And those poor little babies that so often get caught in the crosshairs.
Where is the justice?


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I think the reason for the apathy is there is so little sympathy for the victims of those crimes. When a shooter misses his intended target and takes out a child or an innocent bystander, I think there is a lot of sympathy. If it's basically one criminal shooting another enemy criminal, I don't think there is much sympathy from the public there. One gang member shooting another gets 2 criminals off the streets, IMHO. It's pathetic when the shooter misses, though, and hits a child.
 
  • #969
To those of you saying that they left MB's body uncovered for too long....the cell phone video that I watched has him being covered up at 10 minutes into the video. The person who shot the video was one of the very first people on the scene as you can tell by there not being very many people around as he walks up and pans around the area until the end of his video.

It's heartbreaking to see when his son goes over to his dad and gets an extremely close-up view of his face. The LE quickly come to whisk him away and give him support.

How much faster could they have covered him up? IMO I just don't see 12-15 minutes as being an extended period of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfAkvcbU2pw&feature=youtu.be
 
  • #970
Five will get you ten that if she was asked why she was holding her arms up she would probably say because they told me to or that she was doing it because all the others were doing it.jmo

That pic is amazing, but I agree that I doubt this little girl has any idea why she's doing it.

The problem I have with this "protest" situation, and the fact that these types of images are being used to support it, along with the rhetoric espoused by elected officials, and others such as Holder, is the fact that this shooting is being directly tied to the issues this country still has with racial bias, and the problems it causes the black community.

They, we, the media, the world does not know if what Officer Wilson did was justifiable, or if it was done b/c of racial profiling, and hatred.

The struggle of the black community, and the issue of whether or not their rights are violated by whites, shouldn't be so closely associated with this shooting and Officer Wilson until we know fully the events that led to this young man's death.

If this protest was being carried out b/c of an unjust verdict, or b/c it never undergoes "vigorous investigation" or scrutiny, then the point is well taken. Thus far however, neither of those critical factors has yet to happen, and IMO the Gov., Holder and the activists that have become involved in this protest should be making that distinction. Without that distinction, these people are only creating more divisiveness.

Clearly there should be a better way, especially when the current situation is harming their community in such devastating ways.

Respectfully JMO. :peace:

Mods, if this is inappropriate, please edit/delete accordingly.
 
  • #971
Thank you for this post! Now I don't feel embarassed to admit that I was once in the "excessive force" camp.

And you just perfectly described my transition to where I stand now.

I agree with you 100 %. I went thru the George Zimmerman trial the same way. I started at manslaughter and changed to self defense. Not that I don't think GZ is an idiot, but he acted like any person holding a gun, while getting their azz kicked, would.
Back to the subject, I now feel the cop was assaulted and the shooting was justified. When a cop can't stop someone from attacking him, their won't be many cops left. In fact, I keep wondering, if this cop is made the sacrificial lamb to end the riots, will there be any left in this or neighboring towns.
If it wasn't for the innocent citizens who are staying home, minding their own business, I would sugest pulling all LE back and let them have at it.
All MOO only.
 
  • #972
These stats in this article really bother me, because ANYONE who has a financial need can get a guaranteed student loan. I've had them. I'm still paying them off. If you have a need, and you don't have a GSL, it's because YOU didn't take the time to fill out the paperwork. And these student loans work for college and trade schools, alike. So if you don't feel you're college material, but do feel you could excel as a tradesman, then do it.

Didn't graduate? Get your GED.
Bad environment? Leave it. Join the military if you need to. You'll find instant housing, instant food, instant medical coverage, and an instant job. You can also obtain your degree while you're in the service, and/or learn a trade that will ensure employment after you get out.

So....if you want a better life, MAKE a better life for yourself.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/21/news/economy/black-white-inequality?hpt=hp_c2

Sometimes, what it comes down to is: people don't have something because THEY don't go after it, not because of how they were raised. Not every white kid has had a great upbringing either. I didn't, but I managed to dig my way out.
 
  • #973
If a community is 80% + black...and a black person is pulled over ...how in the world is that racial profiling?

Especially, if the police force is primarily white.

Seems to me, the problem is young black people from the community have no desire for a career on law enforcement.

All IMO


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  • #974
Parks- even the worst injury possible to DW doesn't make the shooting/death of MB justifiable.

This is an attorney? :facepalm: He might want to brush up on the actual laws before spewing more of this rhetoric.
 
  • #975
With four shots to MB's right arm first it does not appear DW was trying to kill MB. If MB bent over to grab his stomach as reported it is possible the last two shots fired from the officer's gun were aimed in the same area as the arm but when MB bent over the shots landed in his eye and the top of his head as he falling forward. At least this is what we are hearing so far from witnesses but we really need some type of statement so everyone understands exactly why MB ended up with head wounds. jmo
 
  • #976
According to LE rules, if someone is within 21 feet of a PO and they are brandishing a knife, they can use deadly force. So these cops followed protocol.

Maybe a question for a legal eagle - aren't police allowed to shoot a fleeing felon as well?
 
  • #977
With four shots to MB's right arm first it does not appear DW was trying to kill MB. If MB bent over to grab his stomach as reported it is possible the last two shots fired from the officer's gun were aimed in the same area as the arm but when MB bent over the shots landed in his eye and the top of his head as he falling forward. At least this is what we are hearing so far from witnesses but we really need some type of statement so everyone understands exactly why MB ended up with head wounds. jmo

Stand up with your arms raised in the air, feet apart, as if surrendering. Now lunge forward in a football-style lunge at someone. Where would you get shot?
 
  • #978
I think the reason for the apathy is there is so little sympathy for the victims of those crimes. When a shooter misses his intended target and takes out a child or an innocent bystander, I think there is a lot of sympathy. If it's basically one criminal shooting another enemy criminal, I don't think there is much sympathy from the public there. One gang member shooting another gets 2 criminals off the streets, IMHO. It's pathetic when the shooter misses, though, and hits a child.

I think that is a good point as well. Black on black crime in dense urban areas generally (obviously not always) involves gang shootings and disputes between people who know each other (much like when there is a shooting between 2 people who are arguing, regardless of demographic - think... outside a club or a domestic dispute). It doesn't get as much attention as, say, a police on citizen shooting because the police are supposed to be the good guys. It's even more extraordinary when it is reported/revealed that the shooter, in this case LEO, is shooting an unarmed civilian.

It's not to say the 'black on black' shootings are NOT tragic. They absolutely are. Every life is important, every life is precious. It's just more shocking when the shooter is supposed to be a 'good guy' and the victim is unarmed.
 
  • #979
Yes, that's one of the things I was referring to when I mentioned toxic pop culture as a factor.

I cannot agree with you more!
 
  • #980
Okay folks, you are not permitted to post links to donation sites or mention them by name. It is against TOS.
 
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