MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #8

[Phoebeb]

I do not think it was a planned theft, based on watching Dorian. He looks at the cigars and puts them back on the counter- I don't think DJ went in the store planning to steal cigars, jmo.
Also, I'm imagining the confrontation at the police car may mirror the behavior in this video- Dorian there, but not participating in the altercation.

Store robbery video: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-accuse-shooting-victim-of-shop-robbery.html

Video begins with MB entering store, but just after UG (Unknown Guy) who is clearly seen at the end holding the store door open for MB before he assaulted/menaced clerk. It looks to me like the 3 entered the store together with a plan of action.

 

[lonetraveler]

Does it matter if the officer's orbital socket was fractured or not? If he was assaulted by MB and hit in the face after being pushed back into the car, I would think that that is sufficient for him to believe that he was in danger. The weapon was initially fired from inside the vehicle; I have heard this stated by witnesses supporting both the deceased and the officer. IMO, MB was involved in a scuffle with the officer and most likely hit the officer in the face. During this scuffle the weapon was fired. Maybe MB was trying to keep the officer from pulling the weapon? Maybe he was inside the window beating the officer and trying to grab the officer's arm to prevent being shot? Maybe after the weapon fired, MB took off running to get away from the officer? Maybe the officer panicked, got out of the car, lost it and just started firing? Maybe MB was shot, turned to face the officer, hands in the air and officer continued to fire? This is what I'm considering at this moment.

 

[tlcya]

That is fair enough, I will do the same. However it does show us what is really happening here... There are unnamed sources lying to support a certain narrative. A lot of irresponsible journalism going on with this case.

a lot of lying. Agreed. A lot of spin. Poor media behavior and reporting. I don't know if unnamed sources are lying to support a certain narrative but I feel very strongly that certain named witnesses are lying to support another.

 

[Trident]

I for one can not imagine anyone wanting or trusting him after that. But as time goes by people tend to forget.

Quote Originally Posted by Elley Mae View Post
MAYOR TESTIFIES BADEN'S OUSTER WAS NECESSARY

Published: June 26, 1982
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/06/26/ny...necessary.html

The Mayor, speaking in a firm and confident tone, said he had acted properly and fairly in making the ''very painful'' decision to dismiss Dr. Baden in July 1979 after receiving complaints about him, particularly from District Attorney Robert M. Morgenthau of Manhattan.

''Dr. Baden's temperament was such,'' Mayor Koch said, ''that he couldn't work within the system.'' Mayor Koch stressed complaints that Dr. Baden had failed to cooperate with Mr. Morgenthau's office in providing evidence for several cases. The Mayor described Mr. Morgenthau as ''the preeminent law enforcement officer in New York.''

He wasn't trusted 32 years ago.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...spector/8.html

Dr. Baden took the stand next and testified that the incident never happened, adding that he had never been accused of tampering with evidence. "In my 47 years, this is the first time that issue has ever been raised," he said.

What I gather from this is Dr. Baden "couldn't work within the system". LOL, that could have a lot of connotations. New York back then wasn't a bastion of truth, justice, and the American way, although I am certainly not accusing anyone of anything. I simply know Dr. Baden from his work, and the fact he is totally respected by everyone who knows, or has worked with him.

:cow:

 

[tlcya]

It looks like UG may have left without paying for his drink, anyone notice that? He was over on the left side of the counter while MB was at the counter, watching MB. Maybe he did pay but I didn't see it.
I do not think it was a planned theft, based on watching Dorian. He looks at the cigars and puts them back on the counter- I don't think DJ went in the store planning to steal cigars, jmo.
Also, I'm imagining the confrontation at the police car may mirror the behavior in this video- Dorian there, but not participating in the altercation.

yes. My thinking too.

 

[CoolJ]

a lot of lying. Agreed. A lot of spin. Poor media behavior and reporting. I don't know if unnamed sources are lying to support a certain narrative but I feel very strongly that certain named witnesses are lying to support another.

So you think it is only the witnesses who are lying?

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STLtoday
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Greg Jonsson ‏@Jonssonville 9m
Grand jury in #MichaelBrown case: 3 black members, 9 white : http://bit.ly/1BKqtEF #Ferguson
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[DebinGA]

I do not think it was a planned theft, based on watching Dorian. He looks at the cigars and puts them back on the counter- I don't think DJ went in the store planning to steal cigars, jmo.
Also, I'm imagining the confrontation at the police car may mirror the behavior in this video- Dorian there, but not participating in the altercation.

Re UG, there appeared to me to be another cash register where he was standing and perhaps paying for what looked like a bag of munchies. DJ looks restless and furtive the whole time, as if his job was to only stand by to watch/warn as MB robs.

 

[Foxfire]

Does it matter if the officer's orbital socket was fractured or not? If he was assaulted by MB and hit in the face after being pushed back into the car, I would think that that is sufficient for him to believe that he was in danger. The weapon was initially fired from inside the vehicle; I have heard this stated by witnesses supporting both the deceased and the officer. IMO, MB was involved in a scuffle with the officer and most likely hit the officer in the face. During this scuffle the weapon was fired. Maybe MB was trying to keep the officer from pulling the weapon? Maybe he was inside the window beating the officer and trying to grab the officer's arm to prevent being shot? Maybe after the weapon fired, MB took off running to get away from the officer? Maybe the officer panicked, got out of the car, lost it and just started firing? Maybe MB was shot, turned to face the officer, hands in the air and officer continued to fire? This is what I'm considering at this moment.

Lonetraveler, I agree with the bolded part, but you lost me on the rest of the statements.. It takes a very brazened individual to assault an armed police officer. Not the norm for a person under the influence of marijuana.. The numb3rs do not equate, imo..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-shooting-grand-jury-decide-october-charge-cop/story?id=25047905
The injury was not described, but last week Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said that Wilson had swelling to the side of his face.

The hospital photo of the office's facial injury is expected to be shown to the grand jury, the source said.

 

[krimekat]

Wow, the comments on the cjonline article from people who say they know him are very damning.

IMO, they are going to have to throw out this autopsy. The defense will tear this guy to shreds.

there's been 3 so far, right? But the funeral is Monday . . .

 

[lonetraveler]

Lonetraveler, I agree with the bolded part, but you lost me on the rest of statements.. It takes a very brazened individual to assault an armed police officer. Not the norm for a person under the influence of marijuana.. The numb3rs do not equate, imo..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-shooting-grand-jury-decide-october-charge-cop/story?id=25047905
The injury was not described, but last week Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said that Wilson had swelling to the side of his face.

The hospital photo of the office's facial injury is expected to be shown to the grand jury, the source said.

LOL, I tend to confuse people while I think out loud. I'm playing this scenario out in my head. I can see where MB was leaning inside of the officer's window, hitting him in the face and doing struggling to keep the officer from shooting him, probably trying to take the weapon out of the officer's hands, the weapon is fired and MB takes off running. I can also see the possibility that the officer gets out of the car and fires at MB, hits him. MB turning to face the officer with hands up but officer keeps firing. We all know the end of the scenario.

BBM: My input on the bolded above concerning it taking a very brazen individual to assault an armed police officer. This very same individual just strong-armed a store clerk to steal a box of cigars, so he was feeling brazened already. Pot doesn't usually embold someone to become violent but it can make you feel 'ten feet tall and bullet proof" and take away inhibitions so that you do things you wouldn't ordinarily do. I've witnessed some very risky behavior from normally meek, cautious people who are on pot. In my younger days :crazy:

 

[tlcya]

So you think it is only the witnesses who are lying?

source A says blowout
source B says no

Obviously one unnamed source is lying. Fact.

DJ IMO is straight up lying about what he says happened. His story does not track from start to finish. At all. That is simply my own.

The employee being picked up is not consciously lying, she is a poor witness IMO. She describes getting her phone, going from one room to the next, etc etc during her account all while the thing she claims to have witnessed is going on outside. I feel her account is not helpful because it is piecemeal and a construct of those bits and pieces of the events she DID see have now been firmed up by her mind filling in for her (assumptions) about what she did not see.

Eye Witness accounts can be IMO very flawed. I posted the studies several threads back. Our memories are not like TIVO or DVDs. They are colored by our previous experiences and what we have subsequently heard and seen from others. They are fluid and therefore unreliable.

All of the above is JMO. That is why I am trying to examine all the accounts as I wait for the actual forensic evidence and other hard facts to come to light.

ETA It is my belief that the biggest liars of all are the media, the talking heads, and those who are pushing an agenda and supporting themselves on this sort of national case. None of them wants to see peace or justice really because it is bad for business. That too is just my opinion

 

[Dogface]

Been gone a few days, me and the kiddo are sick! So the cop didn't have an orbital blowout? Not that that is a game changer for me, however, reminds me that there is still a lot of facts that need to surface in this case.

In my experience, I feel my blowout was caused because I was pinned against the floor so when I was hit, my head couldn't move to absorb the blow.

When do you think we will see all the evidence in this case? Will we get it after the GJ decides?

 

[popsicle]

source A says blowout
source B says no

Obviously one unnamed source is lying. Fact.

DJ IMO is straight up lying about what he says happened. His story does not track from start to finish. At all. That is simply my own.

The employee being picked up is not consciously lying, she is a poor witness IMO. She describes getting her phone, going from one room to the next, etc etc during her account all while the thing she claims to have witnessed is going on outside. I feel her account is not helpful because it is piecemeal and a construct of those bits and pieces of the events she DID see have now been firmed up by her mind filling in for her (assumptions) about what she did not see.

Eye Witness accounts can be IMO very flawed. I posted the studies several threads back. Our memories are not like TIVO or DVDs. They are colored by our previous experiences and what we have subsequently heard and seen from others. They are fluid and therefore unreliable.

All of the above is JMO. That is why I am trying to examine all the accounts as I wait for the actual forensic evidence and other hard facts to come to light.

Source B said the x-ray showed no blow out. They may have done a CT scan. jmo

 

[Phoebeb]

yes. My thinking too.

That's what I thought too, but if you look again, there appears to be a second register towards the left where UG (unknown guy) is paying. I really just think he happened to be at the staore at the same time- he comes walking from the left side of the store in the video and up to the counter so he was there before the two came in. imo

 

[popsicle]

Been gone a few days, me and the kiddo are sick! So the cop didn't have an orbital blowout? Not that that is a game changer for me, however, reminds me that there is still a lot of facts that need to surface in this case.

In my experience, I feel my blowout was caused because I was pinned against the floor so when I was hit, my head couldn't move to absorb the blow.

When do you think we will see all the evidence in this case? Will we get it after the GJ decides?

If they don't indict him we will see all the evidence.

 

[Lovejac]

He has been representing himself in a way that is not appropriate by giving forensic pathology opinions when he is not qualified to do so,” Young told the station.

Told of Case’s criticism, Parcells told TheDC, “Oh, I’m not surprised.”

“She hasn’t liked me for a really time. So, whatever. I don’t know what else to say other than that.”


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire/#ixzz3B89aUO8R

So, like, Whatevs

I am sorry but that was his response to concerns expressed about his qualifications? okay.

I said the same thing yesterday about his "they're just jealous"

And now it's "so, whatever"

I can honestly say, I've not ever heard a grown man talk this way. A prepubescent girl, yeah, but not a grown man.:facepalm:

 

[tlcya]

That's what I thought too, but if you look again, there appears to be a second register towards the left where UG (unknown guy) is paying. I really just think he happened to be at the store at the same time- he comes walking from the left side of the store in the video and up to the counter so he was there before the two came in. imo

Sorry, should have clarified. I was agreeing with the bold portion of your post about DJ and his non participation in the robbery and his likely non participation in the serious altercation at the police car. I agree - he hung back in both situations.

 

[Foxfire]

LOL, I tend to confuse people while I think out loud. I'm playing this scenario out in my head. I can see where MB was leaning inside of the officer's window, hitting him in the face and doing struggling to keep the officer from shooting him, probably trying to take the weapon out of the officer's hands, the weapon is fired and MB takes off running. I can also see the possibility that the officer gets out of the car and fires at MB, hits him. MB turning to face the officer with hands up but officer keeps firing. We all know the end of the scenario.

Lonetraveler, I honor and respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree on the giving up, 'hands up, don't shoot' scenario. Due to MB's brazen behavior, both at the strong armed robbery incident, and then the assault and battery of an armed law enforcement officer in broad daylight indicates much more than a lapse in judgement by an otherwise empathetic individual by all accounts. jmo

 

[Lovejac]

Store robbery video: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-accuse-shooting-victim-of-shop-robbery.html

Video begins with MB entering store, but just after UG (Unknown Guy) who is clearly seen at the end holding the store door open for MB before he assaulted/menaced clerk. It looks to me like the 3 entered the store together with a plan of action.

Great catch DebinGA. I had noticed another guy previously and assumed he was just another customer. I never even noticed that he held the door open for MB.

Who the heck is it?