MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

[secretagent]

Agreed. I'm a single mom and admit to getting distracted on occasion (okay, often). Two mornings ago, when I went to open the door to go to work, I found it unlocked and knew I had left it that way. Sometimes it just happens and we (me and the other bumbling people out there) say a prayer of thanks.

I have gone to leave for work and found the door locked,my keys hanging in the lock :/ placenta brain.

 

[marge_rita]

When my children were little babies, when they were sick, I put them in bed with me and their daddy.

Wonder if Lisa's mom ever did that.


imo

 

[yllek]

In regard to my previous post about parents' ages:

I am certain that Jeremy Irwin is 28 years old; birth year for the Jeremy L Irwin at Lister address shows up the same in every data base. As for Deborah Lee Bradley/Netz, I've now found records with 76, 86 and mostly "unavailable" in the "birth year" field in various databases. The media is saying that she is "25years old", so makes sense to assume they have confirmed that is the case.

 

[elepher50]

Yes, but it wasn't in her name, I'm thinking it's her brother.

PN (Debbie's brother) is associated with JI on the house.

 

[marge_rita]

OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

I think it is too...what's your take on the dad checking the boys rooms first?

 

[mysteriew]

That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

BBM

She has one child and he has one child. And yes, both seem fine. Then they had Lisa together.

But she is most likely the primary caregiver of the children, or at least she was that night. On the particular night in question, she was primary caregiver of three kids.

Two older (one of which wasn't hers) and a sick infant. Household routine may have been disrupted due to JI on the first of working nights. Baby Lisa had been sick for several days hadn't she? So Mommy may have been working on some sleep deprivation, or at least several days of interrupted sleep. She would have had little opportunity to make that up, because she had older kids to care for. All conditions she wouldn't have faced when she only had one little one to care for.

First there was JI leaving to go to work. Two kids to settle, go through bedtime routine and get into bed. And through it all a baby under a year old who doesn't understand wait, or you better mind. And a baby to get into bed.

So did Lisa go right to sleep and stay asleep? According to mother there is no mention of Lisa getting up. But also no way to verify that. I know that a child with a stuffy nose will frequently wake up and cry. Sometimes prolonged crying. But according to mother she diapered, bottled and put the child in bed. Then she checked on Lisa again at 10:30 pm. How was baby sleeping at that time? We don't know. Even Mom hasn't said that I have seen.

Now my DGS at that age had this uncanny trick. When we put him into bed, he slept great for hours. Until everyone else went to bed and the house got quiet. Then he cried. And he wanted up! Happened when he was sick or well.
Kids this age do wake frequently. They lose their binky, they wet diapers and are uncomfortable or they wake and things are different than when they went to bed. It is dark and they are alone. They get scared. If DGS had a stuffy nose, he woke more often.

But we don't really know about that night with Lisa. According to Mom, she took her bottle and got diapered, went to bed and was checked on at 10:30. I just don't know.

 

[secretagent]

How do you realize it later? How do you know you did not lock it?

Go to leave expecting to have to unlock it, and finding it already unlocked?

 

[JEN12376]

Not trying to be argumentative at all...but none of us really know what would go through a kidnapper's mind. If there was the thought that it might delay calling for help I can see stealing the phones. It's really no different than cutting the phone lines in the days before cell phones.

There have been several examples posted here about crimes committed where the perps also took the victims cell phones to possibly slow down a call for help. It's become very common.
The phones were in plain sight on the counter, so it would be easy and very quick to stash them in pants pockets.

IMHO...it's not in the realm of impossible, so I have to consider that it could have happened.

but I would think the person would have had to wandered into the kitchen first to stash the phones first before taking Lisa from her crib since there were three of them. He/She wouldn't be able to hold a sleeping Lisa and pick up 3 phones without dropping her. One phone maybe but not 3. If this was a stranger I would think that they would want to be in and out as quick as possible. Who wants to wander around the house hoping that one of the other 3 people won't wake up and hear them.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I've gotten up several mornings to find the back door unlocked. My DH always says "Oh yeah, I took the dogs out and forgot to lock it again.'"

See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Do you think they thought LE would not check their phone records and ditching the phones would be good enough to hide the 2:30 A.M. phone call?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Which brings up another point. What good would taking 3 cell phones do for the kidnapper if there was a landline phone at the home as well?

Good question. From what I've read apparently one phone was dead. All three were on a counter and Debbie was manually entering phone numbers into a new phone. Oh, one of the three phones was a borrowed phone from a family member because Deb had a broken phone. Hope this makes sense. So three phones were laying on a counter together.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Have they examined his vehicle for any possible decomp, etc.?

 

[dovebar]

Depends on the layout - he could have checked the house quickly, snatched the phones in clear view, and taken the baby. Either to sell all items quickly for cash, or to delay a 911 call.

You can put a phone in your pocket; you don't have to hold it.

 

[shefner]

Not to worry about the 911 time. It is just the timeline in these cases is not what it always appears to be.

I'm going out on a limb here and going to say that releasing the information about the 2:30am call was intentional on LE's part to light a fire under someone. Someone who knows they dialed out on that phone in the house at 2:30am.

Why, Yes....of course. And LE knows many of the details, I have to believe. They are applying pressure where they feel its needed.

I don't automatically trust LE in every case. Take Holly Bobo's disappearance.....I think LE has made a mess of that. However, in this case, they were praised early on. LE has been great at providing numerous press conferences and keeping the public informed. I hesitate to turn on them just because I don't like the direction of their theory. Matter of fact, their openness is the very thing we seek in criminal cases. Because of this, I have to relinquish my ideas that this couple is absolutely innocent...and reconsider some things that I had earlier rejected. In other words, I am trying to stay "open."

 

[norest4thewicked]

OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

For some reason I thought he got home at 3:30. But maybe this was the time he got off work. I don't even know anymore, I'm so overtired.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?

In the Sabrina Aisenberg case the mother said she forgot to lock the door, too. (5 month old baby taken in the middle of the night, never found...)

 

[norest4thewicked]

I also remember reading that perhaps in the first day that investigators were seen carrying out of the house baby bedding in plastic bags, but I have been looking for it and can't find it.

 

[elepher50]

Perhaps LE took all the beding that was on the bed that morning. Thsi may have been in the closet..who knows..

I am sure they were thorough..FBI was there that day ..or the next..family didnt get house back till today ..from what I understand.

Bags of stuff was removed from the house - the video is not available anymore (at least I can't find it again) but here is a snag of some of the stuff that was removed.

ETA: The link: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...win-and-carry-out-two-bags-full-of-baby-items

thanks to norest4thewicked

 

[CHICANA]

..so, they do have a land line?

..netz is deborah's maiden name.

According to 411.com by the address, but the info on there isn't always current. I didn't call to find out if it was still connected. I haven't had a home phone in a couple years but my last number is still listed on 411. I wanted to check personal property records to see if anybody else had property registered at their address but the Clay County website isn't available right now because they're preparing the 2011 tax bills or something like that.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Here it is:

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...win-and-carry-out-two-bags-full-of-baby-items