MO - Misty Horner & baby die in home birth, Lees Summit, 8 Dec 2006

[Pandora]

http://www.house.mo.gov/bills041/hlrbillspdf/0068C.01.pdf

Wow, apparently Caleb Horner is a member of the Lee's Summit Character Council!

 

[Pandora]

Apparently Caleb is a member of the Criminal Justice Association at Evangel University.

http://www.evangel.edu/Academics/BehavioralSciences/CriminalJustice/NewsLetter/NamesAndAddresses.asp

 

[southcitymom]

Personally, I don't think of it so much as being able to or not being able to do their job because of his religion...but more how competent is he. Any man that would allow his wife to linger like this, and his child to die, isn't someone I really want to cross paths with...especially if I were in need of medical treatment.

And it isn't just him. There are a lot of people in this country that have some mighty odd beliefs and I wouldn't want them anywhere near me in my time of need. If his judgement is this clouded when it comes to his wife...ughhh...I just hate to even think about him being a cop.

It would be like having OJ as lead Detective on the LAPD. Or Jim Jones in charge of beverages at the Boy Scout Jamboree. Or the guy from Heaven's Gate in charge of transportation for the state of California. All these people are nuts, and killed others.

I'd never in a million years want to look up and see any of these people at a car crash, hoping they'd call for help. Caleb also falls into this group. He's not dealing with a full deck, IMO.

How this guy can be compared to OJ, Jim Jones or the Heaven's Gate leader is beyond my comprehension...all four cases have vastly different facts and circumstances surrounding them.

Just because this guy and his wife didn't find medical attention appropriate to their walk of faith does not mean that they would deny it to others. There's no evidence that this guy or his wife ever didn't get appropriate medical treatment for someone while they were serving in their professional capacities.

 

[luvbeaches]

How this guy can be compared to OJ, Jim Jones or the Heaven's Gate leader is beyond my comprehension...all four cases have vastly different facts and circumstances surrounding them.

Just because this guy and his wife didn't find medical attention appropriate to their walk of faith does not mean that they would deny it to others. There's no evidence that this guy or his wife ever didn't get appropriate medical treatment for someone while they were serving in their professional capacities.

I don't think they are vastly different. I think they are all off their rockers and have done a variety of things (murder is the common thread) to others. And I wouldn't want to look up and see any of them, Caleb included, looking down at me in a Lee's Summit police uniform.

What I don't comprehend is how anyone could allow their child to die and their wife...in the fashion he did.

And I suppose time will tell if any people who had contact with Caleb will come forward and question their encounter with him. And it may be that he was able to seperate his private life from his work. I don't know. But I do know that I think he's missing a few bricks and I wouldn't want him anywhere near me or my family.

What a sick man he is. Allowing his wife and child to die in the name of his "God."

 

[julianne]

Just because this guy and his wife didn't find medical attention appropriate to their walk of faith does not mean that they would deny it to others. There's no evidence that this guy or his wife ever didn't get appropriate medical treatment for someone while they were serving in their professional capacities.

But, if it's truly a matter of faith, personal feelings, and their committment to their "religion", how could they turn that on and off depending on the situation? If they did, indeed, turn it on and off, then to me it can't possibly be a serious devotion to their faith....otherwise they would "live it" and apply those principles to their life all the time.

 

[southcitymom]

But, if it's truly a matter of faith, personal feelings, and their committment to their "religion", how could they turn that on and off depending on the situation? If they did, indeed, turn it on and off, then to me it can't possibly be a serious devotion to their faith....otherwise they would "live it" and apply those principles to their life all the time.

Hi Julianne,

Well I think because many people (myself included) believe that their faith can be very right for them and so they live that faith but do not try to force its tenets on others. For example, I can believe in and try to live by one faith - my faith - and still have respect for other faiths and believe those other paths to God are just as valid as my own. Allowing others their own right paths without judgment does not mean someone lacks faith in their own personal path.

I will go so far as to say that most people of faith abide by this "norm"...though we do tend to hear more about extremists and zealots!

If this guy and his wife were against medical care for all, you can bet that would have come up at some point during their police careers. They would have refused to dispatch an ambulance or stayed praying over a gunshot victim instead of calling for medical help.

But I bet we won't hear about anything like that ever happening while they were on the job. This doesn't mean they didn't believe in the tenets of their faith for themselves, it just means they were allowing others to have free will.

Just my opinion!

 

[mssheila]

Personally, I don't think of it so much as being able to or not being able to do their job because of his religion...but more how competent is he. Any man that would allow his wife to linger like this, and his child to die, isn't someone I really want to cross paths with...especially if I were in need of medical treatment. =QUOTE]

I agree with your assessment in this part of your post. The OJ and Jim Jones comparison is a bit much- but what you wrote, that I quoted, is right on, IMO.

Snips from the article posted above:

http://www.tiny.cc/KSHBARTICLE



Sources say Misty Horner had a stillborn baby on Dec. 1, 2006 and never recovered. No one inside Officer Caleb Horner's home would comment.

Horner's wife Misty died inside their Lee's Summit home on Tuesday, five weeks after delivering the stillborn baby, but the circumstances of her death remain a mystery. Lee's Summit detectives investigated; they sent a report to Jackson County's medical examiner on Wednesday. Autopsy results are pending.

Family members declined comment, but Lee's Summit Police know the couple well. Caleb Horner is a veteran Lee's Summit officer. His wife was a dispatcher who resigned late last year just before giving birth. *SNIP*

Emphasis is mine. She died five weeks after giving birth????? How could anyone stand by and let their wife suffer like that? I don't know if it's criminal to let your baby and wife die because you didn't get them medical treatment, but it's definetely morally reprehensible. It's absolutely abhorrent and disgusting that he watched his wife suffer for a full FIVE WEEKS and didn't get her to a doctor, resulting in her death. What is WRONG with people????

 

[lynie]

My question is this....

There is an investigation after Misty died, and an autopsy. However, I have not seen any mention of an investigation or autopsy after the baby was born.
Were authorities notified that a stillbirth occured? Were there services held and if so, did Misty attend? Her family? Was the baby buried?

Seems to me that more family and or friends would have become involved if they had been around and knew details of the labor and birth.
Not that it would have made a difference :razz:

Lynie

 

[Amraann]

Here is my confusion....

If my religion dictated that I breast feed and in that attempt my child died I would be charged with that child's death...

How is it any different then what this couple did my not seeking medical treatment for their unborn child...
That child was still born as a direct result from them not seeking medical care while Misty was in labor for a week.

 

[scandi]

I think you got it figured out Amraann, and there is only one word that pops into my head - STUPID

God bless the baby for the life she never was allowed to have.

Sorry, but I'm quite hard nosed about this kind of thing. God gave humans creative and investigative minds that over a relatively short period of time learned all about the body and how to make it well. I believe this was part of God's overall plan from the beginning.

 

[luvbeaches]

My question is this....

There is an investigation after Misty died, and an autopsy. However, I have not seen any mention of an investigation or autopsy after the baby was born.
Were authorities notified that a stillbirth occured? Were there services held and if so, did Misty attend? Her family? Was the baby buried?

Seems to me that more family and or friends would have become involved if they had been around and knew details of the labor and birth.
Not that it would have made a difference :razz:

Lynie

I can't find any mention of the autopsy of Sydney. I wonder if they were notified after Misty died?

From what I have read, her family was not allowed to enter the home at any time during this ordeal. Those that were there, were part of the "religion." Since her family has said they will most likely file a wrongful death lawsuit, I would imagine that we won't hear much more from them (than we already have).

 

[luvbeaches]

Here is my confusion....

If my religion dictated that I breast feed and in that attempt my child died I would be charged with that child's death...

How is it any different then what this couple did my not seeking medical treatment for their unborn child...
That child was still born as a direct result from them not seeking medical care while Misty was in labor for a week.

I agree, there is no difference.

And if charges are to be filed, I think it will because they endangered the life of the baby, and caused her death. They certainly did nothing to try and save the baby.

 

[luvbeaches]

I think you got it figured out Amraann, and there is only one word that pops into my head - STUPID

God bless the baby for the life she never was allowed to have.

Sorry, but I'm quite hard nosed about this kind of thing. God gave humans creative and investigative minds that over a relatively short period of time learned all about the body and how to make it well. I believe this was part of God's overall plan from the beginning.

Exaclty.

But what boggles my mind is how some people seem to get so lost in life in the name of their "religion." But where I really draw the line is when people do something as stupid as this...and this was stupid...and cost that little baby her life. For that, these people should be held accountable.

 

[scandi]

I agree totally Luvbeaches. This is one reason this land of ours has laws. For the protection of others.

Do we know if they are going to file charges on the hubby? Are they waiting for an autopsy?

 

[southcitymom]

Here is my confusion....

If my religion dictated that I breast feed and in that attempt my child died I would be charged with that child's death...

How is it any different then what this couple did my not seeking medical treatment for their unborn child...
That child was still born as a direct result from them not seeking medical care while Misty was in labor for a week.

The reality is that we don't KNOW that's why the baby was stillborn. The baby could have been dead prior to labor beginning.

If, as facts are uncovered, it is determined that the child was born dead as a result of the protracted, unsuccesful labor, I believe that the father - and perhaps others who were aware of the circumstances - will be charged with something.

 

[mssheila]

Some snips of info from this link: http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/10787105/detail.html#

Misty Horner died on Jan. 9, apparently of septic shock. The month before, she had delivered a stillborn child in her Lee's Summit home.

"(Caleb) didn't know what the heck he's doing -- he has no medical training, he's not a doctor, he doesn't know what he's doing. He takes the scissors and cuts her and performs an episiotomy. The baby finally comes out, and the baby's dead," Moore said.

"The medical examiner told Caleb, 'Caleb I understand your beliefs. All it will take is an antibiotic and Misty will be OK,' and Caleb said no," Moore said.

There is no ongoing criminal investigation, but family attorney Durant Abernathy is pressing for the district attorney's office to look into the case.
<SNIP>

ETA: Does anyone know anything about septic shock?

 

[luvbeaches]

I agree totally Luvbeaches. This is one reason this land of ours has laws. For the protection of others.

Do we know if they are going to file charges on the hubby? Are they waiting for an autopsy?

I thought I'd heard they were waiting for autopsy results on Misty. And her family said if they don't file criminal charges against Caleb, they are going to file a civil suit. I would imagine we'll hear more in the next week. People in this area are totally outraged about this. And now with his family backpeddling and saying they are Methodists. It's not going over very well.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling the family may have come forward as to put a little pressure on the DA to move this case forward. I also believe that they only talked enough to catch everyone's attention...and they did. I don't know a single person who isn't talking about this and completely sickened by what happened.

 

[mssheila]

Thank goodness for Google! I found this article on Septic Shock.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000668.htm

If this is what Misty died from, it's even more atrocious, because it would seem that all she needed was some IV fluids and antibiotics in it's early stages. How her 'husband' could stand by and let her die over a period of 5 weeks is totally and completely unfathomable.

If it's true that Misty refused medical treatment for herself, and was adamant about it- well.. let me just say this. There is no way that I would be able to convince my husband to stand by and just let me die slowly and painfully over that long of a time period. He would be taking me to the emergency room one way or another, whether I wanted to go or not.

 

[luvbeaches]

The reality is that we don't KNOW that's why the baby was stillborn. The baby could have been dead prior to labor beginning.

If, as facts are uncovered, it is determined that the child was born dead as a result of the protracted, unsuccesful labor, I believe that the father - and perhaps others who were aware of the circumstances - will be charged with something.

No, we don't know. But he made no effort to try and save them. A week in labor. The another several weeks with the placenta still intact, and finally the mother dying.

I would have a whole different feeling about this had they gotten help early on. I do understand that they have the right to believe in what they want, and live the way the want...but the baby was breech, and that's a problem when you have no one who has any sort of medical background. And then to let this labor go on for a week...that's the big problem I have.

I will say that if Misty didn't want treatment and she died...then that was her choice. But we really don't know because it sounds like those that were around her (at the time of death) were those that believed in the same things as her husband and BIL.

I'm sure more facts will come out...either in a criminal court or in a civil court.

Think about this...There have been many cases where women have given birth and allowed the baby to die in a toilet. Many times these women claimed that the baby was stillborn, but through an autopsy it was determined that the baby drowned, and the mother was then charged with the death of the baby.

This isn't really any different. They can't say they thought she was dead, so they did nothing. They didn't know this. How could they know? But she is dead, and no one did a thing to help that little baby. The husband used a pair of dirty scissors to make a cut to allow her head to pass. I don't think for one minute he (or anyone else there) would have a way to know if the baby was alive or dead.

 

[luvbeaches]

Thank goodness for Google! I found this article on Septic Shock.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000668.htm

If this is what Misty died from, it's even more atrocious, because it would seem that all she needed was some IV fluids and antibiotics in it's early stages. How her 'husband' could stand by and let her die over a period of 5 weeks is totally and completely unfathomable.

If it's true that Misty refused medical treatment for herself, and was adamant about it- well.. let me just say this. There is no way that I would be able to convince my husband to stand by and just let me die slowly and painfully over that long of a time period. He would be taking me to the emergency room one way or another, whether I wanted to go or not.

Ughhh...what a horrible thing, and so preventable.

I just wonder if maybe in the beginning, she didn't want treatment. I also wonder if toward the end, if she was even in a state to where she could ask for help.

We're in the same boat...my husband would never go along with such a thing, but then I'd never even consider something like this.

I just don't understand how people get to this point in life. I really don't. But then I never did understand how anyone could fall into the clutches of a cult. Maybe they are just weak...and need someone to lead the way for them. How any smart woman would fall for something like this, is beyond my comprehension.