MO - Off-duty officer (Katlyn Alix) shot dead by on-duty officer (Nathaniel Hendren), Jan 2019

[mickey2942]

No, I never thought that one has a relative. My belief is that perhaps Alix was difficult to work with...people who have high ethics can be bothersome to those who don't have the same standards.

I would expect supervision to state that there will be a complete and transparent investigation, with full cooperation to the District Attorney.

The initial response that this was a "tragic accident" and "mishandling of a weapon", means that the investigation was already skewed to a predetermined outcome.

 

[SandyQLS]

No, I never thought that one has a relative. My belief is that perhaps Alix was difficult to work with...people who have high ethics can be bothersome to those who don't have the same standards.

I would expect supervision to state that there will be a complete and transparent investigation, with full cooperation to the District Attorney.

The initial response that this was a "tragic accident" and "mishandling of a weapon", means that the investigation was already skewed to a predetermined outcome.

Why do you assume that Alix had higher ethical standards than others do? She was off-duty, not on some undercover investigation for internal affairs. She chose to go to NH's apartment in the middle of the night. Why did she go there?

 

[Falcon500]

BBM: Falcon, I'm not the OP, but I do have a concern that the department was out in front of the cameras at warp speed pushing the Reverse Russian Roulette narrative and stating that this was a "tragic accident."

You said you find that RRR scenario implausible, also.

I'm pretty confident that as a VE you have a strong sense of what the likely scenario is here. Do you think what really happened in that apartment that night will come to light or not in this case?

I can't count how many people are hung up on this "tragic accident" statement. Immediately after the incident the department had to tell the media something. At the time "tragic accident" seemed to be the safest thing to say. As hours and days went on the facts became clearer and phrase wasn't used again. It's not a big deal.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I can't count how many people are hung up on this "tragic accident" statement. Immediately after the incident the department had to tell the media something. At the time "tragic accident" seemed to be the safest thing to say. As hours and days went on the facts became clearer and phrase wasn't used again. It's not a big deal.

I know what they could have said. The same thing they say in other cases. “We don’t know what happened yet. This is an ongoing investigation. We will get to the bottom of it.” Or some such.

 

[GordianKnot]

I can't count how many people are hung up on this "tragic accident" statement. Immediately after the incident the department had to tell the media something. At the time "tragic accident" seemed to be the safest thing to say. As hours and days went on the facts became clearer and phrase wasn't used again. It's not a big deal.

Thanks for your response, Falcon! It relieves me to hear you explain that the first statements coming from the department aren't necessarily indicative of their current thinking about the case, and won't drive their investigation moving forward.

Recognizing you may not want to venture too far into the field of speculation here, would you be willing to give a general indication of your own thoughts & questions as a detective about what transpired in that apartment? I know you're highly dubious of the RRR narrative. Your voiced skepticism as a VE is the strongest possible indicator that the RRR story is a false one, IMO.

IANALEO (I Am Not a Law Enforcement Officer), but IMO, the shooting has very little, if anything, to do with the victim and shooter being LEOs/co-workers. IMO, this shooting is likely r/t 1 married female meeting up with a single male at his apartment, and some type of heated exchange occurring b/t them, possibly including an unwanted advance.

Are you thinking along those same lines, or no? Again, if you don't want to speculate here on the thread, I understand.

Thanks again, Falcon!! Your presence on this thread is tremendously helpful.
Your time and insights are greatly appreciated.

 

[Falcon500]

Thanks for your response, Falcon! It relieves me to hear you explain that the first statements coming from the department aren't necessarily indicative of their current thinking about the case, and won't drive their investigation moving forward.

Recognizing you may not want to venture too far into the field of speculation here, would you be willing to give a general indication of your own thoughts & questions as a detective about what transpired in that apartment? I know you're highly dubious of the RRR narrative. Your voiced skepticism as a VE is the strongest possible indicator that the RRR story is a false one, IMO.

IANALEO (I Am Not a Law Enforcement Officer), but IMO, the shooting has very little, if anything, to do with the victim and shooter being LEOs/co-workers. IMO, this shooting is likely r/t 1 married female meeting up with a single male at his apartment, and some type of heated exchange occurring b/t them, possibly including an unwanted advance.

Are you thinking along those same lines, or no? Again, if you don't want to speculate here on the thread, I understand.

Thanks again, Falcon!! Your presence on this thread is tremendously helpful.
Your time and insights are greatly appreciated.

I’ll go ahead and say it since no one else will. On the second day I said that this was not a difficult case.

<modsnipped not victim friendly>

The Russian Roulette scanario is believable because alcohol and drugs clouds judgement and you can’t play the game with a 9mm gun. The revolver had to have been retrieved from somewhere in the house to play the game.

If it were a crime of passion whoever shot her would have had to go to another room to get the revolver. If it were a crime of passion he would have simply drawn his 9mm from his gun belt and shot her. He also would not have been banging his head wildly against the cruiser. He knew that he had made a career ending mistake and reacted that way. Had he murdered her his reactions would have been totally different.

By the way I usually do not respond to questions that contain multiple abbreviations. I can’t keep the people straight in my head when you do that.

So I believe it was an accidental shooting with some sort of negligence involved that leads to Missouri’s manslaughter statute.

 

[SuziQ]

Thank you @Falcon500 The revolver vs 9mm, gives me much to think about.

 

[flute4peace]

Thank you @Falcon500 The revolver vs 9mm, gives me much to think about.

Agreed

 

[GordianKnot]

I’ll go ahead and say it since no one else will. On the second day I said that this was not a difficult case.

<modsnipped not victim friendly>

The Russian Roulette scanario is believable because alcohol and drugs clouds judgement and you can’t play the game with a 9mm gun. The revolver had to have been retrieved from somewhere in the house to play the game.

If it were a crime of passion whoever shot her would have had to go to another room to get the revolver. If it were a crime of passion he would have simply drawn his 9mm from his gun belt and shot her. He also would not have been banging his head wildly against the cruiser. He knew that he had made a career ending mistake and reacted that way. Had he murdered her his reactions would have been totally different.

By the way I usually do not respond to questions that contain multiple abbreviations. I can’t keep the people straight in my head when you do that.

So I believe it was an accidental shooting with some sort of negligence involved that leads to Missouri’s manslaughter statute.

Thank you for voicing your thoughts, Falcon! I think the reason many of the rest of us here on the thread haven't done so as forthrightly as you just did is that none of the rest of us are Verified Experts/Law Enforcement Officers, so we're constrained by Terms of Service, whereas you are a Verified Expert and can post without links, etcetera.

I think you've pretty much put out on the table here in open view what many have been silently thinking.

I completely agree with your views on what the meet-up at the apartment was about. Also agree 100% that your crime of passion scenario would result in head-banging behavior in the cruiser after that fact, etc.

<modsnipped response to removed portion of quoted post>

I'm not a Law Enforcement Officer, but surely he would have removed his gun belt if they were meeting for a hookup? I mean, I'm as imaginative as the next person, but that is just hard to envision right there. Logistically, I mean.

I don't necessarily think he would have used his service revolver if it was a crime of passion.

I'm wondering how you arrive at the accidental shooting conclusion unless you buy into the Reverse Russian Roulette scenario, which initially you did not. It sounds like you may be rethinking that now, though?

You have provided much food for thought and insights for discussion, thank you, Falcon!

*Also, appreciate you for responding to my post, multiple abbreviations notwithstanding! I'll be sure to use full names in future posts.
I even went back in and edited this post to remove all the (many abbreviations I used! ) I get that it's annoying. I'm lazy sometimes.

 

[Falcon500]

Thank you for voicing your thoughts, Falcon! I think the reason many of the rest of us here on the thread haven't done so as forthrightly as you just did is that none of the rest of us are Verified Experts/Law Enforcement Officers, so we're constrained by Terms of Service, whereas you are a Verified Expert and can post without links, etcetera.

I think you've pretty much put out on the table here in open view what many have been silently thinking.

I completely agree with your views on what the meet-up at the apartment was about. Also agree 100% that your crime of passion scenario would result in head-banging behavior in the cruiser after that fact, etc.

Working from your theory that they met to have sex, then logically, the most likely scenario is that the shooting was a crime of passion vs. a game of Reverse Russian Roulette.

I'm not a Law Enforcement Officer, but surely he would have removed his gun belt if they were meeting for a hookup? I mean, I'm as imaginative as the next person, but that is just hard to envision right there. Logistically, I mean.

I don't necessarily think he would have used his service revolver if it was a crime of passion.

I'm wondering how you arrive at the accidental shooting conclusion unless you buy into the Reverse Russian Roulette scenario, which initially you did not. It sounds like you may be rethinking that now, though?

You have provided much food for thought and insights for discussion, thank you, Falcon!

*Also, appreciate you for responding to my post, multiple abbreviations notwithstanding! I'll be sure to use full names in future posts.
I even went back in and edited this post to remove all the (many abbreviations I used! ) I get that it's annoying. I'm lazy sometimes.

My thoughts are that due to playing a stupid game of Russian Roulette it caused him to go crazy in the police cruiser. NOT that committing a crime of passion would cause head banging. I’ve never seen a person who has committed murder to go nuts. Causing an accidental death? Yes.

 

[scarletstar]

Just wondering where her new husband was at 1am? i didn't see anything in any of the articles about his whereabouts. It looks like perhaps she is a night shifter and she worked closely with the man who has shot her. But why would she be at this place in the middle of the night when he's on shift and she isnt?

 

[GordianKnot]

My thoughts are that due to playing a stupid game of Russian Roulette it caused him to go crazy in the police cruiser. NOT that committing a crime of passion would cause head banging. I’ve never seen a person who has committed murder to go nuts. Causing an accidental death? Yes.

Question: do you think the head-banging might have been done after the fact to explain away the black eye?

Still thinking crime of passion here. The timeline is really tight for them to have dived straight into a game of (Reverse) Russian Roulette. My own thoughts are that Officer Hendren was interested in diving quickly into something else entirely, and was perhaps too aggressive in his approach. Just My Opinion.

That's not even how Russian Roulette is played. It honestly makes no sense logically.

Hookup gone awry does make some sense, especially if ETOH, sorry, alcohol, and/or drugs were involved.

 

[SandyQLS]

Just wondering where her new husband was at 1am? i didn't see anything in any of the articles about his whereabouts. It looks like perhaps she is a night shifter and she worked closely with the man who has shot her. But why would she be at this place in the middle of the night when he's on shift and she isnt?

He was also working night shift, elsewhere in the city - that is in the media.

 

[scarletstar]

He was also working night shift, elsewhere in the city - that is in the media.

thank you! must've missed it!

 

[SandyQLS]

@Falcon500 thanks for your point of view and expressing what others may not be able to say within TOS.

I don't know that Alix was promiscuous for her age group, but IMO she was edgy, a higher risk taker. Millions of average risk takers join the military, so with the police, but these occupations also specifically attract High T risk takers who need more excitement than average people or they become bored easily. A high risk taker would seek others like themself for fun, and NH was likely the same sort of person. The shooting was an accident IMO. It may come out that RR was a game played before by Alix, NH, others, perhaps not the partner PR.

 

[MJPeony]

Still reading and following along.

Curious to learn about and ponder reasons why people think the RRR game is actually plausible? Falcon, what made you change your mind about the likelihood that is what happened?

I'm having such a hard time rationalizing how any police officer would play that game, much less 2. Would like to open my mind to better understand why it could be plausible.

(ETA: anyone else having trouble with this thread showing up in the New Posts section?)

 

[SandyQLS]

thank you! must've missed it!

I have been searching for a proper MSM link and no luck. I did find this post in the thread:

Additionally, I learned today that her husband is assigned to District 4 via SLPD and he was on-duty at the time of the incident. He is not listed on their wedding registry.

https://www.theknot.com/registry/co...eventYear=2018&reset=true&track=true&offset=0

 

[Falcon500]

Quote snipped by me

Thanks for your insight and analysis. I remember listening to my family's police scanner decades ago, and if a patrol unit/officer needed to stop by his home or even just take a "break" outside their usual zone, they would ask for permission over the radio. IIRC, there was a particular number-code that applied.

For instance, I would hear their request as "Unit 290 requesting a 99 at 00 Baker Street" IMO
Is that still a "thing" with police agencies? If you know, of course!

Sorry that I never got back to you. With talk-around channels, tactical channels that are frequently open, and cell phones and texting there is very little need anymore to go through the dispatcher.

 

[Falcon500]

Still reading and following along.

Curious to learn about and ponder reasons why people think the RRR game is actually plausible? Falcon, what made you change your mind about the likelihood that is what happened?

I'm having such a hard time rationalizing how any police officer would play that game, much less 2. Would like to open my mind to better understand why it could be plausible.

(ETA: anyone else having trouble with this thread showing up in the New Posts section?)

How, when, and where did I change my mind?

 

[PrairieWind]

Still reading and following along.

Curious to learn about and ponder reasons why people think the RRR game is actually plausible? Falcon, what made you change your mind about the likelihood that is what happened?

I'm having such a hard time rationalizing how any police officer would play that game, much less 2. Would like to open my mind to better understand why it could be plausible.

(ETA: anyone else having trouble with this thread showing up in the New Posts section?)

I don't think they were actually playing russian roulette. Not for real anyway. They may indeed have had a live round in the gun and were pointing it and pulling the trigger. But they were doing it, in my opinion, thinking it was perfectly safe because they "knew" where in the cylinder the live round was. So they knew they had 3-4 safe trigger pulls and were just pretending to play RR. The problem was that they lost track of where the cylinder was or it got advanced a position or two without them realizing. On that last trigger pull, he completely expected it go "click." Instead, it went "BANG!"

That the shooting was accidental is also supported by the two officers reactions and actions after the shooting. It appears that they both immediately radioed and called in the shooting, then put her in the police car and drove right to the hospital. It seems they really were trying to save her life. If he had intentionally shot her, I think they would have taken a little more time to get a better story, then called it in.