MO MO - Possible serial killer in St. Louis targeting sex workers, 2021

[whiterhino]

Remember this ......Theres ALWAYS SIGNS, its all whether or not you know how to or dare to read them.

The only way to prevent personal cause violence from happening is to get as many eyes on it as early as possible, when it comes to the human psyche, bad things grow in dark places , as my grandmother used to say about injuries you "gotta let the air get at it"

Parents and immediate family are the first line of defense against tragedy.

They have to be involved enough in their children's lives that they can spot things that are out of sorts if you will . But some are either unaware of what they are looking at as a potential disaster, they may feel they have the situation in hand, or they simply turn a blind eye to it , and in even worse cases, they contribute to the mess through their own such as physical, psychological or sexual abuse .

But for a parent to be able to prevent future atrocities , they need to first be able themselves to ADMIT their child has a problem ... Not at all as common as it sounds, and from there actually TAKE ACTION to get the child the help they need, and then SEE IT THROUGH!!

This may mean invasion of their privacy, it may mean spying on your kids, it may mean involving psychiatric care, it may mean getting Law Enforcement involved, but this is how you derail fledgling offenders .

A parent needs to be able to guide a child through all types family dynamics,for ex in cases,of divorce, it befalls BOTH parents to help guide their child or children through the process, and transition into the new family dynamic .

In many cases, children are left to figure things out themselves, and they almost always get it wrong.

Identifying behavioral red flags can be tough, but in most of the cases, ive seen after talking with parents of these offenders, there is ALWAYS something they "Shouldve listened to my gut" about, or acted upon when they discovered something their child was involved in .

Sue Kliebold, mother of Columbine shooter Dylan Kliebold , actually hosted a Ted talk where she explains how she had no idea what her son was doing, yet goes on to talk about how she saw bomb making, components, and caught her son with a duffel bag with the a rifle barrel sticking out of it .... and said she thought nothing of it until hindsight.

15 people died and 24 more were injured because NO questions were asked about glaring red flags.

Lionel never thought anything of his sons fascination with the bones of the dead mice he had caught in the mouse traps in his home, nor did he think much of his sons glaring lack of friends , his drinking beginning at age 13, or bringing home and dissecting road kill, because to Lionel and his wife it all had to do with their sons fascination with science, primarily, anatomy and physiology.

When the family decided to move , their son protested, and despite several red flags, such as his drinking that began as an adolescent , his lack of friends, his almost constant social isolation, and his growing obsession with dissection his son they decided to leave the 15 yer old to stay in their old house to live by himself .... His son Jeffrey (Dahmer) would go on to murder , dismember, and cannibalize, 17 young males . He committed his first murder just a week after graduation from HS.

Dispite his repeated refusals, William Kinkel finally caved, to his son Kip , had kept at his parents relentlessly until they bought him a 9mm handgun he had wanted so badly. The important part to note here is that Kinkel was already suspended from his HS for bringing a loaded handgun into his school at age 15.

William Kinkel admitted he was "afraid" of his son

Kinkel would go on to thank his parents by murdering them both , then setting his sights upon Thurston HS where he gunned down 2 more people wounding an additional 25

While in custody, Kinkel was able to retrieve a knife he had taped to his leg , he then tried to stab a police officer begging the officer to kill him.

and thats just a few. cases.....

The next line of defense is peers and teachers, children will often reveal their true colors around peers, the opinion of their peers of the individual also speaks into the type of relationships they have with others

In all of the above cases, their peers knew of the individuals violent remarks, and in some cases, intent . They in most cases, would describe the individual as odd.

Dahmer had few if any friends and drank scotch from his jacket pocket right in class

the Columbine shooters, also had few if any friends, referred to themselves as the "trench coat mafia" and spoke of violence and weapons often, to many of the other kids in their school, as a matter of fact in a Class photo of their class both Kilebold and Harris can be seen in the Photo pointing their fingers at the camera in a fashion of holding a gun.. yet no questions were asked

Kinkel was described, by his peers as "strange and morbid" , boasted about joining the army after graduation just to "see what it was like to kill someone" . During a class project once, he gave a how to on how to make a bomb....yet no questions were asked.

Teachers, are an adult eye to see how these interactions play out on a daily basis , and should report anything out of the ordinary , they will know intimately the struggles their students have with learning, which is an indicator of possible future, trouble .

They key is to identify, then actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT .

Yeah in the case I'm referring to, these kids had parents and their parents were present in their lives but not very vigilant or active. I don't think their parents cared that much and treated their behaviour as if it weren't cause for concern and overlooked A LOT.

It was very much a Columbine type of situation. I'm sure there were people who, after the fact, probably talked amongst themselves about the various red flags they ignored. There were probably a number of people tight lipped in the community who condoned and participated in the same activities. No one wants to be associated with that.

Society stamps everyone as behavioural disordered these days and so many excuses are made for delinquent teens who are brushed off as hormonal or socially awkward. If you ask their peers, they almost always come back with "I thought he was weird" or "Everyone knew about that one time". Meanwhile, nothing is ever done!!

This kid I'm talking about, his father left out loaded weapons casually in their home, in their bedroom, unlocked. More than one weapon. Yet, this kid never took it and AFAIK never used it on anyone. Never used it to threaten himself or his own life, never used to commit any crimes (that we know of). Yet in the end, he worked and saved his own money to buy a gun that would end up taking 5 lives. He did it all legally too! Took the P.A.L test and waited patiently to be approved.

I wasn't close enough to this person to be able to do anything. It was just a bad vibe based off something about video games. I said "What if that was real life?" when his friend replied "That would be awesome!" They were shooting other players in the back. They were 14 at the time. By the time they were 18, they were ready and prepared to actually to it IRL. And they did!

When you say DO SOMETHING it's hard to know what that something is. Who could I have told about my bad feelings and suspicions? I had no idea who to tell or how to go about it. They hadn't done anything wrong. Technically I am 1000% certain this kid and his friends got into things but were never in trouble with the LAW. That's the thing. If they'd been reported, if their community hadn't been so lazy, if the parents weren't so busy partying with their children.

It's hard for anyone to see the issue if their own behaviour is part of the problem. What problem? What's wrong with leaving out a loaded rifle? It's not as if their son was suicidal/homicidal, antisocial, ADHD, prone to violence or on medication for a behavioural disorder. What's a red flag?

Sorry to go so far OT. Won't happen again, I just needed to vent. Our society is so violent that this OP seems tame compared to what we see around here. Good to know they've caught this guy though! He was getting waayyy too comfortable with shooting whoever he felt like shooting!

So I guess in terms of "classifying" what serial killer means, this guy technically qualifies? I get the serial part and I get the killer part, but my brain can't reconcile that this = SK. To me, SK is more... "murdery" as in, killing people for insurance money or something darker/sinister. Basically, most serial killers are operating like cold machines and we add that layer of drama for entertainment purposes. Aha, this is where the subheadings come in, like "blood lust" and "necrophile" right? Like the different motives or driving force indicate different classes of SK?

It would be interesting to learn more about the guy from the OP. Is it like so many other stories, kids who grow up on the street with no supervision, recruited by organized crime and introduced to violence at an early age, indoctrinated into a lifestyle that's impossible to escape? I'd bet good money that this is part of his story.

 

[Kell1]

Yeah in the case I'm referring to, these kids had parents and their parents were present in their lives but not very vigilant or active. I don't think their parents cared that much and treated their behaviour as if it weren't cause for concern and overlooked A LOT.

It was very much a Columbine type of situation. I'm sure there were people who, after the fact, probably talked amongst themselves about the various red flags they ignored. There were probably a number of people tight lipped in the community who condoned and participated in the same activities. No one wants to be associated with that.

Society stamps everyone as behavioural disordered these days and so many excuses are made for delinquent teens who are brushed off as hormonal or socially awkward. If you ask their peers, they almost always come back with "I thought he was weird" or "Everyone knew about that one time". Meanwhile, nothing is ever done!!

This kid I'm talking about, his father left out loaded weapons casually in their home, in their bedroom, unlocked. More than one weapon. Yet, this kid never took it and AFAIK never used it on anyone. Never used it to threaten himself or his own life, never used to commit any crimes (that we know of). Yet in the end, he worked and saved his own money to buy a gun that would end up taking 5 lives. He did it all legally too! Took the P.A.L test and waited patiently to be approved.

I wasn't close enough to this person to be able to do anything. It was just a bad vibe based off something about video games. I said "What if that was real life?" when his friend replied "That would be awesome!" They were shooting other players in the back. They were 14 at the time. By the time they were 18, they were ready and prepared to actually to it IRL. And they did!

When you say DO SOMETHING it's hard to know what that something is. Who could I have told about my bad feelings and suspicions? I had no idea who to tell or how to go about it. They hadn't done anything wrong. Technically I am 1000% certain this kid and his friends got into things but were never in trouble with the LAW. That's the thing. If they'd been reported, if their community hadn't been so lazy, if the parents weren't so busy partying with their children.

It's hard for anyone to see the issue if their own behaviour is part of the problem. What problem? What's wrong with leaving out a loaded rifle? It's not as if their son was suicidal/homicidal, antisocial, ADHD, prone to violence or on medication for a behavioural disorder. What's a red flag?

Sorry to go so far OT. Won't happen again, I just needed to vent. Our society is so violent that this OP seems tame compared to what we see around here. Good to know they've caught this guy though! He was getting waayyy too comfortable with shooting whoever he felt like shooting!

So I guess in terms of "classifying" what serial killer means, this guy technically qualifies? I get the serial part and I get the killer part, but my brain can't reconcile that this = SK. To me, SK is more... "murdery" as in, killing people for insurance money or something darker/sinister. Basically, most serial killers are operating like cold machines and we add that layer of drama for entertainment purposes. Aha, this is where the subheadings come in, like "blood lust" and "necrophile" right? Like the different motives or driving force indicate different classes of SK?

It would be interesting to learn more about the guy from the OP. Is it like so many other stories, kids who grow up on the street with no supervision, recruited by organized crime and introduced to violence at an early age, indoctrinated into a lifestyle that's impossible to escape? I'd bet good money that this is part of his story.

<modsnip>

So cliff notes version: There are more issues NOW than 20 years ago they've just shifted, hence the severe decrease in Serial killings, which were a rare phenomenon to begin with, but the increase in other types of violence as a whole primarily among younger offenders.

IE better child services, psychiatric care, and were catching fledgling serial offenders earlier in their criminal careers, but what we are seeing is more street violence, drug use has skyrocketed, probably 5x more assaults than in the past, as kids have less and less respect for others.

Serial Killing is a LE term, the basic requirements for such is 2-3 murders with a cooling off period in between, but theres more to it depending on what framework that happens in

For ex theaters of war, or as part of a criminal enterprise etc...

a better definition for a serial offender is "2-3 personal cause murders with a cooling off period "- Personal cause=for reasons of their own need, or desire.

What could you have done?, you could talk to your local police, you r neighbors, you could try to talk to his parents, you could post about it on social media without naming names, theres, you could attend community meetings, talk to your kids ..

Theres rarely NOTHING you can do , its just doing something no matter how small it may seem, sometimes we feel we cant do anything , but raising awareness of things like social media posts can help, but we usually fear that were going over the top , so people just tend to look away.

Sometines it hepls , sometines it doesnt .... but you can say you tried

I once had a 14 year old in custody, on a juvinile drug charge, he had been in JDC before for assaults on teachers, his mother basically said she couldnt control him anymore ,

He had a stutter that he was picked on for ,

While in custody all he did was talk about shooting people guns, and weed, and the gangster lifestyle he made sure we knew how much he hated police and that he would kill any one of us if we pissed him off, which is really just more annoying than anything , theres 4 of us one of him

I mean all he ever talked about was killing people , getting high , F the police etc..

I was present at his hearing on the drug charge, while I had him seated behind the court room, he said something that sent up the red flag ..there was a newspaper on the table, and on the front was a picture of cop, making an arrest in a murder case, we had where a woman killed her husband, ... but thats not the point .... He put his finger on the officer, as if pointing a gun and pretended to pull the trigger..... he looked at me and said "In the street a life is only worth something if you take it "

I followed up on Khilyl for years, telling his case workers, about him, he was in and out of juvenile detention another time for illegal possession of a handgun.

He got it off the street

Sadly there was "nothing more they could do "

Last time I saw Khilyl it as in court again.... but this time he was being sentenced to life in prison, for gunning down an innocent couple leaving a bar ... in what would be the crescendo of his criminal career , he coldly waited outside a bar, for anyone to come out , when a young couple who stopped in for dinner exited, he walked up and shot the female through the head as soon as she walked out the door, chased, her boyfriend around, laid on the ground and shot him to death as he tried to hide under a car

He had no connection to them, didnt know them, had no reason to target them he did it for no other reason that to just to have "bodies" on his record .

He even bragged about it saying he "put that work in" , then tried to sell the gun to get rid of evidence.

After his guilty verdict he mocked the families, of the victims, telling them "Bet yall never see them again" and looked at the families, and said "rest in pi$$"

From there he was also involved in a prison stabbing.

What could I have done? ...maybe nothing, but I tried, did it help ? No, but i know that i tried to prevent that little from getting out, I didnt fail....the system did .

 

[Bit of hope]

<modsnip>
So cliff notes version: There are more issues NOW than 20 years ago they've just shifted, hence the severe decrease in Serial killings, which were a rare phenomenon to begin with, but the increase in other types of violence as a whole primarily among younger offenders.

IE better child services, psychiatric care, and were catching fledgling serial offenders earlier in their criminal careers, but what we are seeing is more street violence, drug use has skyrocketed, probably 5x more assaults than in the past, as kids have less and less respect for others.

Serial Killing is a LE term, the basic requirements for such is 2-3 murders with a cooling off period in between, but theres more to it depending on what framework that happens in

For ex theaters of war, or as part of a criminal enterprise etc...

a better definition for a serial offender is "2-3 personal cause murders with a cooling off period "- Personal cause=for reasons of their own need, or desire.

What could you have done?, you could talk to your local police, you r neighbors, you could try to talk to his parents, you could post about it on social media without naming names, theres, you could attend community meetings, talk to your kids ..

Theres rarely NOTHING you can do , its just doing something no matter how small it may seem, sometimes we feel we cant do anything , but raising awareness of things like social media posts can help, but we usually fear that were going over the top , so people just tend to look away.

Sometines it hepls , sometines it doesnt .... but you can say you tried

I once had a 14 year old in custody, on a juvinile drug charge, he had been in JDC before for assaults on teachers, his mother basically said she couldnt control him anymore ,

He had a stutter that he was picked on for ,

While in custody all he did was talk about shooting people guns, and weed, and the gangster lifestyle he made sure we knew how much he hated police and that he would kill any one of us if we pissed him off, which is really just more annoying than anything , theres 4 of us one of him

I mean all he ever talked about was killing people , getting high , F the police etc..

I was present at his hearing on the drug charge, while I had him seated behind the court room, he said something that sent up the red flag ..there was a newspaper on the table, and on the front was a picture of cop, making an arrest in a murder case, we had where a woman killed her husband, ... but thats not the point .... He put his finger on the officer, as if pointing a gun and pretended to pull the trigger..... he looked at me and said "In the street a life is only worth something if you take it "

I followed up on Khilyl for years, telling his case workers, about him, he was in and out of juvenile detention another time for illegal possession of a handgun.

He got it off the street

Sadly there was "nothing more they could do "

Last time I saw Khilyl it as in court again.... but this time he was being sentenced to life in prison, for gunning down an innocent couple leaving a bar ... in what would be the crescendo of his criminal career , he coldly waited outside a bar, for anyone to come out , when a young couple who stopped in for dinner exited, he walked up and shot the female through the head as soon as she walked out the door, chased, her boyfriend around, laid on the ground and shot him to death as he tried to hide under a car

He had no connection to them, didnt know them, had no reason to target them he did it for no other reason that to just to have "bodies" on his record .

He even bragged about it saying he "put that work in" , then tried to sell the gun to get rid of evidence.

After his guilty verdict he mocked the families, of the victims, telling them "Bet yall never see them again" and looked at the families, and said "rest in pi$$"

From there he was also involved in a prison stabbing.

What could I have done? ...maybe nothing, but I tried, did it help ? No, but i know that i tried to prevent that little *** from getting out, I didnt fail....the system did .

I "liked" your post but I don't like this at all. It's the nature/nurture discussion all over again. The system? Yes, I agree to some height, but some people just don't fit into the system, don't want to or are unable to fit in. No matter how hard caring or concerning people try. But....happily not everybody develops into a killing criminal. What I hear is that at first you had some kind of compassion for this kid, tried to guide him in another direction....he didn't wanted to see, hear....he was lost already.

 

[whiterhino]

<modsnip>

So cliff notes version: There are more issues NOW than 20 years ago they've just shifted, hence the severe decrease in Serial killings, which were a rare phenomenon to begin with, but the increase in other types of violence as a whole primarily among younger offenders.

IE better child services, psychiatric care, and were catching fledgling serial offenders earlier in their criminal careers, but what we are seeing is more street violence, drug use has skyrocketed, probably 5x more assaults than in the past, as kids have less and less respect for others.

Serial Killing is a LE term, the basic requirements for such is 2-3 murders with a cooling off period in between, but theres more to it depending on what framework that happens in

For ex theaters of war, or as part of a criminal enterprise etc...

a better definition for a serial offender is "2-3 personal cause murders with a cooling off period "- Personal cause=for reasons of their own need, or desire.

What could you have done?, you could talk to your local police, you r neighbors, you could try to talk to his parents, you could post about it on social media without naming names, theres, you could attend community meetings, talk to your kids ..

Theres rarely NOTHING you can do , its just doing something no matter how small it may seem, sometimes we feel we cant do anything , but raising awareness of things like social media posts can help, but we usually fear that were going over the top , so people just tend to look away.

Sometines it hepls , sometines it doesnt .... but you can say you tried

I once had a 14 year old in custody, on a juvinile drug charge, he had been in JDC before for assaults on teachers, his mother basically said she couldnt control him anymore ,

He had a stutter that he was picked on for ,

While in custody all he did was talk about shooting people guns, and weed, and the gangster lifestyle he made sure we knew how much he hated police and that he would kill any one of us if we pissed him off, which is really just more annoying than anything , theres 4 of us one of him

I mean all he ever talked about was killing people , getting high , F the police etc..

I was present at his hearing on the drug charge, while I had him seated behind the court room, he said something that sent up the red flag ..there was a newspaper on the table, and on the front was a picture of cop, making an arrest in a murder case, we had where a woman killed her husband, ... but thats not the point .... He put his finger on the officer, as if pointing a gun and pretended to pull the trigger..... he looked at me and said "In the street a life is only worth something if you take it "

I followed up on Khilyl for years, telling his case workers, about him, he was in and out of juvenile detention another time for illegal possession of a handgun.

He got it off the street

Sadly there was "nothing more they could do "

Last time I saw Khilyl it as in court again.... but this time he was being sentenced to life in prison, for gunning down an innocent couple leaving a bar ... in what would be the crescendo of his criminal career , he coldly waited outside a bar, for anyone to come out , when a young couple who stopped in for dinner exited, he walked up and shot the female through the head as soon as she walked out the door, chased, her boyfriend around, laid on the ground and shot him to death as he tried to hide under a car

He had no connection to them, didnt know them, had no reason to target them he did it for no other reason that to just to have "bodies" on his record .

He even bragged about it saying he "put that work in" , then tried to sell the gun to get rid of evidence.

After his guilty verdict he mocked the families, of the victims, telling them "Bet yall never see them again" and looked at the families, and said "rest in pi$$"

From there he was also involved in a prison stabbing.

What could I have done? ...maybe nothing, but I tried, did it help ? No, but i know that i tried to prevent that little *** from getting out, I didnt fail....the system did .

My thing with the terminology is just that if there are not already subcategories for types of serial offenders, there should be. In my day to day life, it's not something I really need to know lol!

I did try to talk about it with a couple of people but we were all powerless to do much of anything. The parents were part of the problem IMHO. The school and their community are also to blame for overlooking so much. One of the kids friends had made threats to another student yet the parents did nothing! No suspension, no charges, no consequences.

What you're describing sounds so similar to the shooting I'm talking about. Complete strangers, killed for no reason whatsoever. At least on the surface. I believe that there's another layer underneath connected to the shooters POV and their victim of choice. In the first set of victims, it was a young couple with everything ahead of them. The kids that shot them were by all accounts, basically nobodies going nowhere. Possibly the couple was chosen because by all appearances, they had everything. MOO.

This shooting that I'm talking about was known to be the first, last and only crime this kid committed. Hard to believe considering the amount of violence. There are a number of missing and unidentified from that area (west coast Canada). Personally, I think people are being "hunted" by these types of juveniles. Just a feeling I have. There's a string of vulnerable persons who have been targeted. By vulnerable, I mean all kinds of vulnerable. Not just feeble or unaware, I mean single people alone in the woods, alone on the roadside, hikers and backpackers. Even a number of larger, full grown men have basically disappeared.

The older I get and the more time I spend around sites like this one, I realize how common violent crime really is. In fact, only a few months ago a family was killed while walking together just a few blocks from my home. The driver intentionally mowed them down and killed 4 or 5 people in broad daylight! He laughed while he was being arrested.

Some of these kids are deranged and it has to be obvious to someone. Problem is what to do to stop it from escalating into violence and death? These kids need to start telling on each other more. They screenshot everything anyway, they gossip anyway, where's the moral compass these days?

 

[whiterhino]

I "liked" your post but I don't like this at all. It's the nature/nurture discussion all over again. The system? Yes, I agree to some height, but some people just don't fit into the system, don't want to or are unable to fit in. No matter how hard caring or concerning people try. But....happily not everybody develops into a killing criminal. What I hear is that at first you had some kind of compassion for this kid, tried to guide him in another direction....he didn't wanted to see, hear....he was lost already.

Your signature says it all

I think the poster means the system failed to protect society and stop the kid from becoming a better criminal. Not so much that they didn't fit in anywhere.

Some, many, are lost causes and it's as if sometimes by choice. It's almost as if the more someone tries to encourage another path these types of people cling even more to their evil ways. A lot of the time I think it's ASPD (antisocial personality). Some say sociopath or psychopath (there are differences) but both fall under the same disorder umbrella IIRC. In those cases, there is no chance of ever being able to appeal to their better nature because it doesn't exist. It's like hugging an alligator. Don't bother!

 

[Kell1]

Because human behavior rarely fits into a nice little box, its in its modern incarnation is viewed through a continuum, and not categorized, though its much easier to explain it categorically

Serial offenses, are analyzed through several factors, including victim type, location, and whats termed "personation" which are psychological components, unique to the individual offender

Repeated personation, becomes what we term "signature"

Signature only exists in repeat offenses, ive seen personation referred to as "Signature aspect" when we see something telling at a crime scene that may indicative of something more than just MO.

The motivating factors technically could categorize them , but lets say you have a prostitute killer that is strangling women, then one day you start finding prostitutes stabbed to death , same victim type location, how do you know if its the same guy?

You have to look at any psychological factors to try to differentiate between the 2 if there are 2 at all.

So you have to look at the actual crime sceme photos , the autopsy protocols, and the autopsy reports, and the all initial police reports .

What you dont want is a list of suspects

You separate all of the cases, and you start (usually with something to eat and drink because youre going to be there awhile NO ALCOHOL) and you analyze what was done to each victim

Lets say you see that the strangled victims were also robbed, strangulation appears to be manual (with his hands) the victims, werent raped but in some cases, their own clothes were used as ligatures, most of them arent found far from where they were last seen

In the stabbing cases, you have semen, you have the bodies dumped further away in secluded areas, they are found nude , and though their clothes have been removed, they are found folded nicely and personal items like ID's and jewelry are missing

Though you have a common victim type and location, and ultimately the same outcome... the behavioral motivating factors are completely different

MO the "how " they operate will often change, the signature the "why" will never change , even if the victim type does , the reason they do what they do will remain the same throughout their criminal career

However in some cases, such as dealing with a criminal sociopath, you could be dealing with SEVERAL behavioral factors that will all tie into one motive .

Kinda confusing I know

 

[whiterhino]

Because human behavior rarely fits into a nice little box, its in its modern incarnation is viewed through a continuum, and not categorized, though its much easier to explain it categorically

Serial offenses, are analyzed through several factors, including victim type, location, and whats termed "personation" which are psychological components, unique to the individual offender

Repeated personation, becomes what we term "signature"

Signature only exists in repeat offenses, ive seen personation referred to as "Signature aspect" when we see something telling at a crime scene that may indicative of something more than just MO.

The motivating factors technically could categorize them , but lets say you have a prostitute killer that is strangling women, then one day you start finding prostitutes stabbed to death , same victim type location, how do you know if its the same guy?

You have to look at any psychological factors to try to differentiate between the 2 if there are 2 at all.

So you have to look at the actual crime sceme photos , the autopsy protocols, and the autopsy reports, and the all initial police reports .

What you dont want is a list of suspects

You separate all of the cases, and you start (usually with something to eat and drink because youre going to be there awhile NO ALCOHOL) and you analyze what was done to each victim

Lets say you see that the strangled victims were also robbed, strangulation appears to be manual (with his hands) the victims, werent raped but in some cases, their own clothes were used as ligatures, most of them arent found far from where they were last seen

In the stabbing cases, you have semen, you have the bodies dumped further away in secluded areas, they are found nude , and though their clothes have been removed, they are found folded nicely and personal items like ID's and jewelry are missing

Though you have a common victim type and location, and ultimately the same outcome... the behavioral motivating factors are completely different

MO the "how " they operate will often change, the signature the "why" will never change , even if the victim type does , the reason they do what they do will remain the same throughout their criminal career

However in some cases, such as dealing with a criminal sociopath, you could be dealing with SEVERAL behavioral factors that will all tie into one motive .

Kinda confusing I know

A bit confusing but I really want to learn about this kind of thing. Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain. When I was little I wanted to be a detective instead I come here and pretend like I'm doing something

In your examples above, I'd say the first set of crimes were opportunistic in nature whereas the second set of crimes seem more sexual/ritualistic/fetishistic in nature. Two different types of crimes, two different types of criminal. The former being a "Richard Ramirez" type and the latter being maybe more of a "Gary Ridgeway" type.

I suppose it comes down to business or pleasure. In the case of career criminals who are sociopathic, I'd say it's a matter of "if the shoe fits". This is the organized element of crime that always surprises me. They employ similar profiling tactics to select the right person for the job.

If we're talking about career criminals in the sense of repeat offenders, it seems like a compulsion or some other behavioral kind of thing. Not to brush it off, just that there would be no other personal gain for someone like that other than satisfying their own obsessions/compulsions/urges.

Makes sense, the longer the list of suspects the more possibilities, the longer it's going to take. At the same time I'm sure law enforcement has their own list of usual suspects and POIs' that they go to first whenever certain types of crimes are committed. Sort of like a match game for profiling victims and suspects.

I have a number of theories about whatever is going on out on the west coast but will spare the thread as it's too far OT. Basically, I'll say the thrill of it seems to be enough for some, especially those who are just starting out.

 

[BeckyF]

Suspected serial killer charged in two Kansas deaths

KANSAS CITY, Kan. (AP) — A man already charged with four deaths in the St. Louis area was charged Thursday with two killings at an apartment complex in Kansas City, Kansas.
Perez Reed, 26, was charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Damon Washington Irvin and Rau’daja De’Naya Farrow, whose bodies were found in separate apartments at that Wyandotte Towers Apartments in downtown Kansas City, Kansas.
Irvin was killed between Oct. 28-29 and Farrow was killed on Oct. 29, the Wyandotte County District Attorney's office said in a news release. His bond was set at $1 million.

The St. Louis Circuit Attorney's office charged Reed on Nov. 9 in the shooting deaths of two people in the city in September. That came two days after he was charged in two other fatal shootings in September in St. Louis County. He was being held in St. Louis on $2 million bond.

A phone call to the office of a public defender assigned to Reed's case in St. Louis rang unanswered Thursday. It was not immediately clear if Reed had an attorney in the Kansas cases.
An FBI affidavit says surveillance video showed Reed entering Irvin's apartment on Oct. 28. The videos also showed Reed and Farrow entering the complex on the night of Oct. 29, with Reed leaving 15 minutes later.

Authorities found Irvin's body on Nov. 1 and Farrow's body the next day.

Officers who were tailing Reed arrested him on Nov. 5 as he got off an Amtrak train and boarded a bus in the Kansas City suburb of Independence.

He was allegedly carrying a .40-caliber handgun that investigators believe he used in the St. Louis-area shootings, according to the FBI affidavit.

Reed, of Bellefontaine Neighbors, Missouri, denied to police that that he hurt anyone, the affidavit says.

Reed is charged in the St. Louis County killings of 16-year-old Marnay Haynes on Sept. 13 and 40-year-old Lester Robinson on Sept. 26. In the city of St. Louis, he is suspected in the killings of 49-year-old Pamela Abercrombie on Sept. 16 and 24-year-old Carey Ross on Sept. 19. All four victims were shot in the head.

St. Louis County Lt. Craig Longworth has said there was no known connection between the victims.

 

[Kell1]

I "liked" your post but I don't like this at all. It's the nature/nurture discussion all over again. The system? Yes, I agree to some height, but some people just don't fit into the system, don't want to or are unable to fit in. No matter how hard caring or concerning people try. But....happily not everybody develops into a killing criminal. What I hear is that at first you had some kind of compassion for this kid, tried to guide him in another direction....he didn't wanted to see, hear....he was lost already.

What specifically dont you like ?

In this case, the system knew of the potential this kid had but were more likely nowadays to worry about peoples liberties, than to focus on destructive potential

Given the kid was just a really bad seed, still is actually, but his violent behavior was well known, all of the red flags were there he was a repeat offender as a juvenile, who stated he wanted to kill people , had an illegal firearms charge, assaults, , drug possession, he attacked and threatened counselors and police , so how did 2 people wind up dead ?

Because those within the system (the one I work in) are more concerned how they may come off as denying ones freedoms over protecting the public

That has been the bane of the judicial system for years

He should've been in a state hospital system or a program somewhere long term.

But all systems fail at some point

 

[Kell1]

A bit confusing but I really want to learn about this kind of thing. Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain. When I was little I wanted to be a detective instead I come here and pretend like I'm doing something

In your examples above, I'd say the first set of crimes were opportunistic in nature whereas the second set of crimes seem more sexual/ritualistic/fetishistic in nature. Two different types of crimes, two different types of criminal. The former being a "Richard Ramirez" type and the latter being maybe more of a "Gary Ridgeway" type.

I suppose it comes down to business or pleasure. In the case of career criminals who are sociopathic, I'd say it's a matter of "if the shoe fits". This is the organized element of crime that always surprises me. They employ similar profiling tactics to select the right person for the job.

If we're talking about career criminals in the sense of repeat offenders, it seems like a compulsion or some other behavioral kind of thing. Not to brush it off, just that there would be no other personal gain for someone like that other than satisfying their own obsessions/compulsions/urges.

Makes sense, the longer the list of suspects the more possibilities, the longer it's going to take. At the same time I'm sure law enforcement has their own list of usual suspects and POIs' that they go to first whenever certain types of crimes are committed. Sort of like a match game for profiling victims and suspects.

I have a number of theories about whatever is going on out on the west coast but will spare the thread as it's too far OT. Basically, I'll say the thrill of it seems to be enough for some, especially those who are just starting out.

I was only listing different possibilities , if i were looking at the cases, I mentioned above id conclude these were not the same killer, and not an evolution of a single offender to a more violent means of killing , which sometimes, happens

Sociopaths tend to have very poor impulse control , they are usually more often a product of their environment than a psychopath which we are beginning to understand are born with a type of genetic brain anomaly that when coupled with certain experiences, through their life , determine what type of psychopath they become (criminal or not )

Because of their poor impulse control and general anger issues, they tend to have a rap sheet that is all over the place, theyll have assaults, destruction of property, arson, theyll have drug charges, theyll have theft, theyll have rape, and sometimes, brutal murder.

But the motiating factors in these types of individuals usually isnt focused, like it tends to be for psychopaths , its more an outlet of their general disgust toward society, and towards social norms.

Sociopaths can be EXTREMELY difficult to deal with, in any setting primarily a legal one

If you ask a sociopath why they did what they did , youll often get something like "why not" or "because i wanted to" .

One thing we see with the 2 types is often a focused/non focused evolution of what they are to become ,

For ex , a kid who happens to see a woman getting undressed one night by chance, through her window , becomes a peeping tom, so he starts to wander around his neighborhood at night looking in windows, once the voyerism stops being exciting, he begins to approach the house and test the windows, from there he grows bolder, and breaks in while noone is home, from there he does it again if hes not caught and begins to steal items but its not vaulables, its more fetishistic.

From there he returns one night to see if he can get in while she is home , he may succeed, he may get away that night, then returns again this time to rape the victim but its unable to due to being nervous, he moves finds someone away from the area where that attack is reported (MO has changed) and tries it again in another area, this time he pulls off the rape , and he leaves.

A few weeks later hes back out doing it again, but the last victim, clawed his face, so they have his DNA, and a pretty good description, he needs to make sure that doesn't happen again, so the next victim he decides hes going to bind , so she cant fight back , and blindfold (Mo has changed again)

But he has to take both hands to bind a victim, so instead, he decides, he will threaten violence if they dont comply, and if they fight back hes going to srtangle them unconscious .

It works till one victim fights, back and he now becomes, a killer .

This an evolution in a criminal psychopath , IE doing things that self gratify him psychologically but they are all somewhat in line with his future crimes.

Ansd in retro classifing (which is what profiling is) you can look at these break in rapes, and conclude, that theres a high liklihood this individual started out as a peeping tom, or a burglar.

SO you start looking for reports of one in the area prior to the assaults, or murders.

When doing a profile of a offender the reason you do not want a suspect list is so you dont start miolding your theory around the known suspects, you need a thprofile to stand on its own, if you have a "guy" youll inadvertantly start making the profile like that guy.

You want the behaviors to fit a suspect, not the other way around

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is dedicated to discussion of this specific case at hand, its victims and the suspect.

Please stay on topic folks.

 

[Bit of hope]

Can somebody disclose the content of this article? I don't have access being from abroad.

Perez Reed criminal history, charges in accused serial shootings | ksdk.com

Also found this
Alleged Serial Killer Perez Reed Used Same Gun, Wore Same Shoes to Kill 6 People, Police Say

The first murder victim was a 16-year-old girl who was killed on Sept. 13, a few days after she was reported as a runaway.

The killings in Kansas City took place in a high-rise apartment complex in two separate units. Police say Reed wore the same shoes to both murders and then kept them on at further crime scenes, which led police to search local phone networks to look for a cellphone connection. When they reportedly found his phone number had been used in both locations, they were able to trace the number to an Amtrak ticket he purchased to return home from St. Louis to Kansas City. Police followed him when he got off the train and onto a bus in Independence, Missouri, where he was arrested.

He was wearing the shoes tied to multiple crime scenes and had the gun used in all the alleged murders and shootings on him, officials say.

Most of the alleged non-fatal shooting victims were women who were known sex workers. At least two of the surviving shooting victims were members of the trans community, police say. At least one non-fatal shooting victim was a man who fit neither category and was struck at random while waiting at a bus stop. Police have not announced a motive but say they do not believe any of the victims knew each other or Reed, who did not have a substantial criminal record but who had been arrested for petty crimes in the past.

The oldest known victim is a 49-year-old woman who was shot in the street and later died in a hospital on Sept. 16. Three days later, a 24-year-old man was found dead in a vacant lot. Ten days later, on Sept. 26, police were alerted to an area in Ferguson, Missouri, after the police computer program ShotSpotter, which tracks gunshots in high-violence areas, pinged authorities. There, a 40-year old man was found dead in the street.

On Nov. 1, police found the bodies of a 35-year-old man and 25-year-old woman in the high-rise apartment that led them to break the case. Police found another deceased person in the complex, but say they later attributed that death to natural causes.

In cases like this people tend to focus a lot on the perpetrator and victims often fade to the background IMO.

Obituaries/memorials

• https://gunmemorial.org/2021/09/13/marnay-haynes, female, 16 years
• Carey Ross (no obituary/not entered in gunmemorial,as far I could find) male, 24 years
• https://gunmemorial.org/2021/09/26/lester-robinson, male, 40 years
  
• Obituary for Mr. Damon Washington Irvin | Lawrence A. Jones & Sons Funeral Chapels damon-washington-irvin, male, 35 years
• Rau’daja De’Naya Farrow/Rau'Daja Fairrow, Ms. Rau'Daja Fairrow Rau’Daja Fairrow Obituary (1996 - 2021) | Kansas City, Missouri, female, 25 years.
• https://gunmemorial.org/2021/09/16/pamela-abercrombie, female, 49 years

 

[Bit of hope]

What specifically dont you like ?

In this case, the system knew of the potential this kid had but were more likely nowadays to worry about peoples liberties, than to focus on destructive potential

Given the kid was just a really bad seed, still is actually, but his violent behavior was well known, all of the red flags were there he was a repeat offender as a juvenile, who stated he wanted to kill people , had an illegal firearms charge, assaults, , drug possession, he attacked and threatened counselors and police , so how did 2 people wind up dead ?

Because those within the system (the one I work in) are more concerned how they may come off as denying ones freedoms over protecting the public

That has been the bane of the judicial system for years

He should've been in a state hospital system or a program somewhere long term.

But all systems fail at some point

I don't like that this 'rotten' kid walked, was not helped with obvious severe mental and/or emotional problems and had a total lack of empathy and respect for others (big red flag), in an earlier stage, was not put in a psychiatric facility and was able to shoot two totally innocent persons for no reason at all. As you said, maybe he was "just" a bad seed from the get go and his brain didn't wire well from birth. I can't help to wonder what was in his background or his upbringing that he already totally lost it at 14 on top of bad wiring.

 

[Kell1]

I don't like that this 'rotten' kid walked, was not helped with obvious severe mental and/or emotional problems and had a total lack of empathy and respect for others (big red flag), in an earlier stage, was not put in a psychiatric facility and was able to shoot two totally innocent persons for no reason at all. As you said, maybe he was "just" a bad seed from the get go and his brain didn't wire well from birth. I can't help to wonder what was in his background or his upbringing that he already totally lost it at 14 on top of bad wiring.

He served 18 months at a youth detention facility, at the other end of the state , before being released, while he was there his counselors, said he made little to no progress, or just enough to fulfill his sentence, though they felt he was still going to "act out"

When I asked the judge who handled Khilyl's case what couldve been done , he said "nothing the way the lasw stand" .... therefore the system is broken

There will ALWAYS be violent criminals, the problem is when we KNOW theres a potential for disaster... but the same laws that protect the innocent allow kids like Khilyl to slip through the cracks despite obvious signs he was going to kill someone.

Khalil was born to a single mother , his father was never in his life sadly a common theme amongst street kids.

He suffered from a stutter and a nervious tick, that he was picked on in school for , he began using marijuana at age 9 , his mother "tried" to control him, but he basically did whatever he wanted .

He struggled in school, but was a decent athlete.

Like so many fatherless, kids, the groups he hung with became his family, and he embraced, the street lifestyle .

He began selling drugs at age 12, he had a history of fights in school, but thats not all that uncommon in public scholls in this area.

His grades were abysmal, he cut classes, regularly, was often high in school.

He like so many others became ennamoured, with the gangster image, money cars, women etc, he began to use drugs regularly.

With nothing more than legal consequences, he found himself on the other side of the law often, and as he grew into a young man, his mother was less and less physically able to control him

By the time I met him he had already done 2 stints in a JDC.

The triggering event (or so he said) was when his cousin was killed in a motorcycle crash, she was riding on the back of the motorcycle traveling over 100 mph when the driver los control, and hit a truck stopped on a bridge , the guy driving the bike survived , his cousin was ejected from the bike off a 90 foot bridge,

Iwas at the scene when her body was recovered from the river .

Khilyl claimed, he was going to kill the driver of the bike, but wanted to see if he could get up the nerve to do so ... which was complete BS , because he bragged to others about killing to 2

He later tried to sell the gun to a friend saying it "had bodies on it", it was this individual that turned Khilyl in

My aunt worked in the JDC as a teacher , where he was housed, and said he was the most difficult kid to deal with because he had zero regard for anyone or anything.

When I spoke to his youth detention counselor I told her , you are dealing with one hell of a sociopath there ... .she said "posterboy"

The thing is everyone knew he was dangerous , LE, the psychiatric community , the community in general ... but due to what I call the "saddest reason" legal limitations, .. Khilyl was able to walk, away from JDC, and just a few years later brutally murder 2 innocent people ....Just because

 

[Bit of hope]

He served 18 months at a youth detention facility, at the other end of the state , before being released, while he was there his counselors, said he made little to no progress, or just enough to fulfill his sentence, though they felt he was still going to "act out"

When I asked the judge who handled Khilyl's case what couldve been done , he said "nothing the way the lasw stand" .... therefore the system is broken

There will ALWAYS be violent criminals, the problem is when we KNOW theres a potential for disaster... but the same laws that protect the innocent allow kids like Khilyl to slip through the cracks despite obvious signs he was going to kill someone.

Khalil was born to a single mother , his father was never in his life sadly a common theme amongst street kids.

He suffered from a stutter and a nervious tick, that he was picked on in school for , he began using marijuana at age 9 , his mother "tried" to control him, but he basically did whatever he wanted .

He struggled in school, but was a decent athlete.

Like so many fatherless, kids, the groups he hung with became his family, and he embraced, the street lifestyle .

He began selling drugs at age 12, he had a history of fights in school, but thats not all that uncommon in public scholls in this area.

His grades were abysmal, he cut classes, regularly, was often high in school.

He like so many others became ennamoured, with the gangster image, money cars, women etc, he began to use drugs regularly.

With nothing more than legal consequences, he found himself on the other side of the law often, and as he grew into a young man, his mother was less and less physically able to control him

By the time I met him he had already done 2 stints in a JDC.

The triggering event (or so he said) was when his cousin was killed in a motorcycle crash, she was riding on the back of the motorcycle traveling over 100 mph when the driver los control, and hit a truck stopped on a bridge , the guy driving the bike survived , his cousin was ejected from the bike off a 90 foot bridge,

Iwas at the scene when her body was recovered from the river .

Khilyl claimed, he was going to kill the driver of the bike, but wanted to see if he could get up the nerve to do so ... which was complete BS , because he bragged to others about killing to 2

He later tried to sell the gun to a friend saying it "had bodies on it", it was this individual that turned Khilyl in

My aunt worked in the JDC as a teacher , where he was housed, and said he was the most difficult kid to deal with because he had zero regard for anyone or anything.

When I spoke to his youth detention counselor I told her , you are dealing with one hell of a sociopath there ... .she said "posterboy"

The thing is everyone knew he was dangerous , LE, the psychiatric community , the community in general ... but due to what I call the "saddest reason" legal limitations, .. Khilyl was able to walk, away from JDC, and just a few years later brutally murder 2 innocent people ....Just because

How sad. It sounds like no human intervention could have changed the path of life he chose....Maybe a very strong role model with good intentions, he admired somehow, but at the same time giving very clear boundaries on the behavioral site (I mean this behavior is unacceptable, but I still love you/won't let you down as a person) could have changed something....I don't know....To be honest the whole "gang" community, the attitude, the signs, the violence, the things they get away with, etc. really disgusts me to the core.

 

[whiterhino]

Can somebody disclose the content of this article? I don't have access being from abroad.

Perez Reed criminal history, charges in accused serial shootings | ksdk.com

Also found this
Alleged Serial Killer Perez Reed Used Same Gun, Wore Same Shoes to Kill 6 People, Police Say

The first murder victim was a 16-year-old girl who was killed on Sept. 13, a few days after she was reported as a runaway.

The killings in Kansas City took place in a high-rise apartment complex in two separate units. Police say Reed wore the same shoes to both murders and then kept them on at further crime scenes, which led police to search local phone networks to look for a cellphone connection. When they reportedly found his phone number had been used in both locations, they were able to trace the number to an Amtrak ticket he purchased to return home from St. Louis to Kansas City. Police followed him when he got off the train and onto a bus in Independence, Missouri, where he was arrested.

He was wearing the shoes tied to multiple crime scenes and had the gun used in all the alleged murders and shootings on him, officials say.

Most of the alleged non-fatal shooting victims were women who were known sex workers. At least two of the surviving shooting victims were members of the trans community, police say. At least one non-fatal shooting victim was a man who fit neither category and was struck at random while waiting at a bus stop. Police have not announced a motive but say they do not believe any of the victims knew each other or Reed, who did not have a substantial criminal record but who had been arrested for petty crimes in the past.

The oldest known victim is a 49-year-old woman who was shot in the street and later died in a hospital on Sept. 16. Three days later, a 24-year-old man was found dead in a vacant lot. Ten days later, on Sept. 26, police were alerted to an area in Ferguson, Missouri, after the police computer program ShotSpotter, which tracks gunshots in high-violence areas, pinged authorities. There, a 40-year old man was found dead in the street.

On Nov. 1, police found the bodies of a 35-year-old man and 25-year-old woman in the high-rise apartment that led them to break the case. Police found another deceased person in the complex, but say they later attributed that death to natural causes.

In cases like this people tend to focus a lot on the perpetrator and victims often fade to the background IMO.

Obituaries/memorials

• https://gunmemorial.org/2021/09/13/marnay-haynes, female, 16 years
• Carey Ross (no obituary/not entered in gunmemorial,as far I could find) male, 24 years
• https://gunmemorial.org/2021/09/26/lester-robinson, male, 40 years
  
• Obituary for Mr. Damon Washington Irvin | Lawrence A. Jones & Sons Funeral Chapels damon-washington-irvin, male, 35 years
• Rau’daja De’Naya Farrow/Rau'Daja Fairrow, Ms. Rau'Daja Fairrow Rau’Daja Fairrow Obituary (1996 - 2021) | Kansas City, Missouri, female, 25 years.
• https://gunmemorial.org/2021/09/16/pamela-abercrombie, female, 49 years

He really made no attempt to conceal his crimes aside from trying to sell the gun. Crazy that LE discovered an unrelated deceased person in the midst of all that!

So his victims were mainly STWs' with a few innocent bystanders? Thankfully there are survivors. This story seems all over the place.

 

[whiterhino]

RSBBM I wanted to highlight what you wrote because it seems to directly apply to this thread.

Sociopaths tend to have very poor impulse control , they are usually more often a product of their environment than a psychopath which we are beginning to understand are born with a type of genetic brain anomaly that when coupled with certain experiences, through their life , determine what type of psychopath they become (criminal or not )

Because of their poor impulse control and general anger issues, they tend to have a rap sheet that is all over the place, theyll have assaults, destruction of property, arson, theyll have drug charges, theyll have theft, theyll have rape, and sometimes, brutal murder.

But the motiating factors in these types of individuals usually isnt focused, like it tends to be for psychopaths , its more an outlet of their general disgust toward society, and towards social norms.

Sociopaths can be EXTREMELY difficult to deal with, in any setting primarily a legal one

If you ask a sociopath why they did what they did , youll often get something like "why not" or "because i wanted to" .

It works till one victim fights, back and he now becomes, a killer .

This an evolution in a criminal psychopath , IE doing things that self gratify him psychologically but they are all somewhat in line with his future crimes.

Ansd in retro classifing (which is what profiling is) you can look at these break in rapes, and conclude, that theres a high liklihood this individual started out as a peeping tom, or a burglar.

SO you start looking for reports of one in the area prior to the assaults, or murders.

I truly think this guy just got used to pulling his gun on people without even thinking. This wasn't even gang related. There was no rhyme or reason, not even robbery or drugs.

Even though it appears he was "targeting" STW's he also killed innocent bystanders and made zero attempt to conceal his crimes. While this guy is definitely a problem, it doesn't seem to be the typical SK targeting sex workers.

 

[airportwoman]

This guy was profiled in the same podcast as the prime suspect in the well-known Kaitlyn Arquette case, referenced in another thread. In this case, I wonder if he chose fellow blacks, in addition to potential sex workers, because he felt law enforcement would be less likely to investigate - but they did because there were so many in a short period of time?

 

[cvaldez1975]

here is the DM w the pictures

'Serial killer', 25, linked to six murders in Missouri and Kansas is arrested | Daily Mail Online

 

[BeckyF]

Accused serial killer Perez Reed pleads not guilty in St. Louis deaths
ST. LOUIS (AP) — A 26-year-old man charged in six deaths in Missouri and Kansas pleaded not guilty to two of the homicides.

Perez Reed appeared via video conference Wednesday to face charges that he killed 49-year-old Pamela Abercrombie on Sept. 16 and 24-year-old Carey Ross on Sept. 19 in St. Louis. He is also charged with killing two people in St. Louis County and two others in Kansas City, Kansas.
Reed’s public defender, Brian Horneyer, entered the not guilty pleas for Reed. He said Reed, a resident of Bellefontaine Neighbors, has an extensive mental health history.

Reed was arrested in November while he was traveling from Kansas City to St. Louis.