I wasn't speaking of any particular case. I was simply giving a single example.
Again, when comparing apples to apples the stats are the same. Most were never a victim of sexual abuse.
MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #1
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I wasn't speaking of any particular case. I was simply giving a single example.
Again, when comparing apples to apples the stats are the same. Most were never a victim of sexual abuse.
mysticrose
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FWIW they are discussing this case right now on Jane Valez on HLN news...
I'll post what I can I am trying to cook dinner right now.
I'll post what I can I am trying to cook dinner right now.
I believe pedophelia is a sexual orientation and sexual orientations rarely change for people. Of course, plenty of children are molested by adults who are not genuine pedophes, so the problem is more complex than pedophelia.
I was trying to confirm that statement when I posted that the juvenile court system here said that FEW juvenile offenders offend as adults. (I think I was quoted 15%, but I can't remember for sure). I agree with your statement that most adult perps were never victims of abuse. The bottom line of what I was trying to say is that juvenile sex offenders' statistics are quite different than adult offenders. That is what I was told at that time. (It was 7 years ago).
So....in summary... I do NOT believe that adult sex offenders were sexually abused as children and THAT is why they are pedophiles and even juvenile statistics verify that fact. Adult offenders are sick and need to be removed from society!
mysticrose
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Sorry not to much on Jane tonight alot of talking heads...
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I'm like SuziQ... I'm not giving any of these guys a pass. Nor am I interested in their own personal sob stories. I've grown weary of hearing about everything to which perps are "entitled." Every abused person (if that's even what they are) has a point of personal responsibility, and personal choice. Fresh out of sympathy. All I need to know now is wth is up w these ridiculously low bonds. 
arrot:
arrot:
mysticrose
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Friends Shocked By Charges Against Mohlers
Co-Workers, Friends Can’t Believe Accusations
POSTED: 4:37 pm CST November 12, 2009
UPDATED: 5:58 pm CST November 12, 2009
INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- KCTV5 spent the day in the metro and in Iowa trying to learn more about David Mohler, one of the five family members charged with sexual abuse crimes against children.
Graceland University officials Independence, Mo., said they were given a one-minute warning before officers swept in and arrested one of the Mohler family members.
"I know Dave is one of the kindest people you know in town," said Bob Ramsey, who knows Mohler personally and professionally and is a neighbor of his in Lamoni, Iowa.
"I find it impossible to believe he could have harmed children," he said
http://www.kctv5.com/news/21599345/detail.html
Co-Workers, Friends Can’t Believe Accusations
POSTED: 4:37 pm CST November 12, 2009
UPDATED: 5:58 pm CST November 12, 2009
INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- KCTV5 spent the day in the metro and in Iowa trying to learn more about David Mohler, one of the five family members charged with sexual abuse crimes against children.
Graceland University officials Independence, Mo., said they were given a one-minute warning before officers swept in and arrested one of the Mohler family members.
"I know Dave is one of the kindest people you know in town," said Bob Ramsey, who knows Mohler personally and professionally and is a neighbor of his in Lamoni, Iowa.
"I find it impossible to believe he could have harmed children," he said
http://www.kctv5.com/news/21599345/detail.html
Boy, am I stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've hesitated to tell this part of our story but it might be interesting if everyone pondered the many facets of this. I'm pretty certain that this scenario plays out everyday.
You all know that our eight youngest were abused. The rapist was convicted and served 10 years. He was released in June on his 25th birthday. The adult who coached him in his rapes has never served time, even though he was arrested and on house arrest for several months. There was hope that the youth would testify against him but that never happened. We walked away with a broken group of already very challenged children. We welcomed and perused every bit of therapy available to us. Interestingly enough, most of the kids didn't qualify for therapy as their IQs were too low. It's thought that people with cognitive disabilities cannot really benefit from talk therapy. Isn't it ironic that they are so often victims? My husband and I were instead trained in how to supervise and process every single scrap of behavior for the remainder of the children's childhoods. It was a daunting task.
Each child has processed their rapes differently. One daughter has serious physical disabilities, is deaf, and has an IQ of 50. She was an amazing witness, by the way. She's so totally concrete and guileless, she blew everybody away. She is the light of my life and will live with us forever.
Our other daughter became very provocative after the rape. She was overly interested in sex and boys. She pushed the envelope day after day. She's the one who is currently being trafficked. I know she went willingly but she does have an IQ of only 63 and I feel it's a crime that she's being re-victimized daily. My heart breaks for her pain.
The other six are boys. One tried suicide over and over until he landed in the State Hospital for a year. We just about threw in the towel. When he was released, he became addicted to meth and began a downward spiral. He's also chronically ill and we braced ourselves for an early death. No one was more shocked than me, his Momma, when he got clean, got a job, and stepped up to life. I am unbelievably proud of this young man. He was the oldest of the eight and he was the one who "told". He paid a high price for the truth but he stopped the abuse.
Another son is a hard worker and kind as can be. He has an IQ in the 70s and has a very hard time in the real world. He's also drinking and using drugs. His biggest challenge is a horrible addiction to pornography. If you ask him where he got this interest, he will tell you that his rapist showed him lots of graphic porn (including bestiality) as the rapist "helped" him walk to school and he could never forget it. The jury's out on him.
Next we have a tender and gentle young man who has a huge amount of shame surrounding the abuse. He also is developmentally disabled but was Student Body President of his high school. He's always had lovely girlfriends and has been accepted socially. It breaks our heart that his DD stands in the way of employment as he is exceptionally kind but has limited life skills. For some reason, very intelligent young women always step in to help him.
Next we have our sweetheart of a son who was raped repeatedly in the school bathroom. He, too, suffered horrible shame and was the last to disclose. He went on to become a gifted athlete and very popular at school. He is vision impaired and very learning disabled but an absolute charmer. He's the one who asked me if he was still a virgin. Given that he's fallen hard for an exchange student at his college, I have my suspicions that he's finally given that precious gift to the girl of his dreams. He's also the son who has PTSD. It's like a monkey on his back. He struggles with it each and every day but has been helped with therapy.
Our youngest son doesn't remember much of the abuse, thank goodness. It happened around the time he was six. He did testify, though, and nailed the rapist with his simple statements. This young man went on to be extremely assaultive. He assaulted me several times. He's recently reconnected with his birth-mother and wasted no time in assaulting her too. He's doing jail time for that. She and I have developed a connection through email and have made a pact to love our son from a distance due to his anger problems.
Last, we have a son who is the twin of our most special needs daughter. He is also very developmentally disabled. They were born at 25 weeks gestation and exposed to heroin, PCP, and alcohol. He witnessed a murder in an inner city foster home at age 3. He was subjected to some of the most humiliating abuse by the rapist. Within weeks of the disclosures, he started acting out against his siblings and hurting himself. He was a very troubled boy with low IQ and multiple mental diagnoses. He required lots of heavy duty meds and supervision.
Now, we get to the real reason I've shared all this info. This boy offended. Yes, I am the mother of a sex offender. I will never minimize what my son did but I fully understand it. It certainly didn't surprise me. He accepted an invitation to a classmate's house. They were both high school juniors in the same special ed class and have a similar level of disability. She had written him very sexually provocative notes and he was smitten. He was 18 and she was 16. They went to her bedroom and she took off her clothes. He had never been with a girl and he pushed himself on her. She giggled and kissed him but then told him to stop. She had to tell him three separate times to stop but he did. He put on his clothes and left. These facts are straight from his and her police reports. He was arrested the next day and gave a statement to the police readily, with no attorney present. He admitted that his finger had penetrated her. He pleaded guilty to a Class A Felony Rape. He was given ten years. The following month, the victim became pregnant with a 15 year old boy. She writes to our son in prison and still refers to him as a boyfriend. They are both obviously very confused and special needs young people.
I tell you all this because I do see both sides of the story but my hands are tied. I cannot call for longer prison sentences and zero tolerance of statutory rape while begging for mercy for my son who was also a victim. This is where it gets so mirky. I'd like to see my son take classes in prison, but he has tremendous learning disabilities. I'd like to have him call me, but a phone is too difficult for him to use. I'd like him to have mental health treatment. I'd like his conviction looked at by an advocacy group but how two-faced can I be? I'm sure that I would once have said that "once you become a perp, you're no longer a victim" but it's not that clear-cut.
Childhood sexual abuse is a lot like a virus. No one asks for the virus but it can be given against their will. Some victims become infected, get sick, and recover. Some stay sick and carry the virus looking for other victims. I don't know if there's an effective anti-viral which will work with everyone. I just don't know.
You all know that our eight youngest were abused. The rapist was convicted and served 10 years. He was released in June on his 25th birthday. The adult who coached him in his rapes has never served time, even though he was arrested and on house arrest for several months. There was hope that the youth would testify against him but that never happened. We walked away with a broken group of already very challenged children. We welcomed and perused every bit of therapy available to us. Interestingly enough, most of the kids didn't qualify for therapy as their IQs were too low. It's thought that people with cognitive disabilities cannot really benefit from talk therapy. Isn't it ironic that they are so often victims? My husband and I were instead trained in how to supervise and process every single scrap of behavior for the remainder of the children's childhoods. It was a daunting task.
Each child has processed their rapes differently. One daughter has serious physical disabilities, is deaf, and has an IQ of 50. She was an amazing witness, by the way. She's so totally concrete and guileless, she blew everybody away. She is the light of my life and will live with us forever.
Our other daughter became very provocative after the rape. She was overly interested in sex and boys. She pushed the envelope day after day. She's the one who is currently being trafficked. I know she went willingly but she does have an IQ of only 63 and I feel it's a crime that she's being re-victimized daily. My heart breaks for her pain.
The other six are boys. One tried suicide over and over until he landed in the State Hospital for a year. We just about threw in the towel. When he was released, he became addicted to meth and began a downward spiral. He's also chronically ill and we braced ourselves for an early death. No one was more shocked than me, his Momma, when he got clean, got a job, and stepped up to life. I am unbelievably proud of this young man. He was the oldest of the eight and he was the one who "told". He paid a high price for the truth but he stopped the abuse.
Another son is a hard worker and kind as can be. He has an IQ in the 70s and has a very hard time in the real world. He's also drinking and using drugs. His biggest challenge is a horrible addiction to pornography. If you ask him where he got this interest, he will tell you that his rapist showed him lots of graphic porn (including bestiality) as the rapist "helped" him walk to school and he could never forget it. The jury's out on him.
Next we have a tender and gentle young man who has a huge amount of shame surrounding the abuse. He also is developmentally disabled but was Student Body President of his high school. He's always had lovely girlfriends and has been accepted socially. It breaks our heart that his DD stands in the way of employment as he is exceptionally kind but has limited life skills. For some reason, very intelligent young women always step in to help him.
Next we have our sweetheart of a son who was raped repeatedly in the school bathroom. He, too, suffered horrible shame and was the last to disclose. He went on to become a gifted athlete and very popular at school. He is vision impaired and very learning disabled but an absolute charmer. He's the one who asked me if he was still a virgin. Given that he's fallen hard for an exchange student at his college, I have my suspicions that he's finally given that precious gift to the girl of his dreams. He's also the son who has PTSD. It's like a monkey on his back. He struggles with it each and every day but has been helped with therapy.
Our youngest son doesn't remember much of the abuse, thank goodness. It happened around the time he was six. He did testify, though, and nailed the rapist with his simple statements. This young man went on to be extremely assaultive. He assaulted me several times. He's recently reconnected with his birth-mother and wasted no time in assaulting her too. He's doing jail time for that. She and I have developed a connection through email and have made a pact to love our son from a distance due to his anger problems.
Last, we have a son who is the twin of our most special needs daughter. He is also very developmentally disabled. They were born at 25 weeks gestation and exposed to heroin, PCP, and alcohol. He witnessed a murder in an inner city foster home at age 3. He was subjected to some of the most humiliating abuse by the rapist. Within weeks of the disclosures, he started acting out against his siblings and hurting himself. He was a very troubled boy with low IQ and multiple mental diagnoses. He required lots of heavy duty meds and supervision.
Now, we get to the real reason I've shared all this info. This boy offended. Yes, I am the mother of a sex offender. I will never minimize what my son did but I fully understand it. It certainly didn't surprise me. He accepted an invitation to a classmate's house. They were both high school juniors in the same special ed class and have a similar level of disability. She had written him very sexually provocative notes and he was smitten. He was 18 and she was 16. They went to her bedroom and she took off her clothes. He had never been with a girl and he pushed himself on her. She giggled and kissed him but then told him to stop. She had to tell him three separate times to stop but he did. He put on his clothes and left. These facts are straight from his and her police reports. He was arrested the next day and gave a statement to the police readily, with no attorney present. He admitted that his finger had penetrated her. He pleaded guilty to a Class A Felony Rape. He was given ten years. The following month, the victim became pregnant with a 15 year old boy. She writes to our son in prison and still refers to him as a boyfriend. They are both obviously very confused and special needs young people.
I tell you all this because I do see both sides of the story but my hands are tied. I cannot call for longer prison sentences and zero tolerance of statutory rape while begging for mercy for my son who was also a victim. This is where it gets so mirky. I'd like to see my son take classes in prison, but he has tremendous learning disabilities. I'd like to have him call me, but a phone is too difficult for him to use. I'd like him to have mental health treatment. I'd like his conviction looked at by an advocacy group but how two-faced can I be? I'm sure that I would once have said that "once you become a perp, you're no longer a victim" but it's not that clear-cut.
Childhood sexual abuse is a lot like a virus. No one asks for the virus but it can be given against their will. Some victims become infected, get sick, and recover. Some stay sick and carry the virus looking for other victims. I don't know if there's an effective anti-viral which will work with everyone. I just don't know.
I believe children are sexually imprinted, meaning, our first sexual arousal and/or experience will have a lot/all? to do with how you function sexually for the rest of your life. UNLESS, and this is a biggie, there is intervention at an early age.
My daughter works in a facility for juvenile sex offenders and according to her they have a great cure(?) rate because they were treated early enough before deviant behavior became firmly entrenched. After a certain age, teen years I believe, it is almost too late to change them.
My opinion only
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I believe in MO a cash bond means exactly that. CASH and no bondsman is involved. The only way property works is if they sell the property and take any cash proceeds to put on the bond.
It has been some years since I worked in MO's Public Defender System, but, I noticed an article not too long ago that they are (again) strapped for funds. Defendants used to have to apply for a PD and if determined they had assets for hiring an attorney we could refuse them. This only happened twice in my personal experience and the defendants were taken out of the PD system (with approval by the judge) and they had to hire counsel. In one case as I recall, the defendant had real property and it was felt he could use that as collateral. Once out of our hands, we didn't follow what happened. Again, this was back in the 1980's and I don't know what, if any changes, have come to pass.
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It's like Curtis Vance (on HLN right now) Anne Presley's killer whose mom begs for mercy saying she "abused him as a child." It's like Christian & Newsom torture-rapist-murderers and brothers Lemaricus Davidson, and Letalvis Cobbins... a string of their other siblings pleading for their sibling's life one after another on the witness stand, ALL of whom shared the same background, same environment, same drug-addicted parents, same sad story yet somehow managed to break the cycle and avoid becoming abusive torturer-rapist-murderers. So I'm not buyin it. NOBODY CAN CHOOSE THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT EVERYBODY HAS A CHOICE WHO THEY BECOME. JMO
arrot:
arrot:
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IF they qualify for PDs in MO, there will be a number of PD offices involved. One gets one from the county they are charged in and due to conflicts of interest in multiple PDs from the same office representing co defendants, they will be assigned PDs (by the State PD Office) from nearby counties.
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I do understand that you believe that but again respectfully I disagree.
Child sexual abuse
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Child sexual abuse is a form of child abuse in which an adult or older adolescent abuses a child for sexual stimulation.[1][2] Forms of CSA include asking or pressuring a child to engage in sexual activities (regardless of the outcome), indecent exposure of the genitals to a child, displaying pornography to a child, actual sexual contact against a child, physical contact with the child's genitals, viewing of the child's genitalia without physical contact, or using a child to produce child pornography.[1][3][4]
The effects of child sexual abuse include depression,[5] post-traumatic stress disorder,[6] anxiety,[7] propensity to re-victimization in adulthood,[8] and physical injury to the child, among other problems.[9] Sexual abuse by a family member is a form of incest, and can result in more serious and long-term psychological trauma, especially in the case of parental incest.[10]
Approximately 15% to 25% of women and 5% to 15% of men were sexually abused when they were children. Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles or cousins; around 60% are other acquaintances such as friends of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases.[11] Most child sexual abuse is committed by men; studies show that women commit 14% to 40% of offenses reported against boys and 6% of offenses reported against girls. Most offenders who abuse pre-pubescent children are pedophiles,however a small percentage do not meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse[/ame]
PAXIMUS
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Well see I am not sure that I buy the argument that paedophillia and homosexuality (not comparing the two BTW) are actual sexual orientations, I do believe this is learned behavior but I also understand that there is growing scientific evidence showing the contrary, I am just not sure I agree with it yet.
I realize it is a very unpopular position to take but I do think that paedophillia and homosexality and other similar orientations are learned behaviors and largely due to psychological and emotional problems in the developmental stages of youth.
I am not a psychologist so I certainly cant speak with any authority on these matters, I hire experts for that purpose.
I realize it is a very unpopular position to take but I do think that paedophillia and homosexality and other similar orientations are learned behaviors and largely due to psychological and emotional problems in the developmental stages of youth.
I am not a psychologist so I certainly cant speak with any authority on these matters, I hire experts for that purpose.
Kimster--It's not the whole picture, I promise. I have a dedicated, loving husband. We have 6 adorable grandbabies (and one in heaven). I have a houseful (7) of spoiled rotten but delightful rescue poodles and chihuahuas who are elderly, special needs, or limb-challenged. I live in a gorgeous town in the mountains and am surrounded by active, vibrant, loving children. I'm also the foster mom of a sweet and tender teen girl with DD who is a survivor herself. Life is not boring.
All is not doom and gloom. There are fuzzy puppies, sweet babies, good food, and lots of yarn. I forgot to mention that I'm a bit obsessed with fiber. I was blessed with having a full bucket as a child. We chose to do this with our life (a crazy huge family, that is) and we've never looked back. Life is good.
Yes, the abuse happened. I can't change it. I'd give anything to undo it but that's not possible. I can report from the trenches, though, and possibly help others going through the same thing. I can bear witness for the victims. The bottom line is we all have to move forward.
All is not doom and gloom. There are fuzzy puppies, sweet babies, good food, and lots of yarn. I forgot to mention that I'm a bit obsessed with fiber. I was blessed with having a full bucket as a child. We chose to do this with our life (a crazy huge family, that is) and we've never looked back. Life is good.
Yes, the abuse happened. I can't change it. I'd give anything to undo it but that's not possible. I can report from the trenches, though, and possibly help others going through the same thing. I can bear witness for the victims. The bottom line is we all have to move forward.
dnrslucky1
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I do not believe every abuser,sexually or other was necessarily abused in the same manner that they abuse. But I do believe there was a trigger of some sort. I have seen a family continually tell a child he was a pervert like his father and guess what that child became!
The family claims it was all heredity, child never knew his real father. A childs mind can be formed to easily.
The family claims it was all heredity, child never knew his real father. A childs mind can be formed to easily.
dnrslucky1
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For instance I was physically abused as a child. But as an adult, I married an emotional abuser. Even thou he threw my daughters school work down the steps because they did not put it away and shut off the electricity when they did not turn off a light, I still thought all was great. He never hit or hurt them!
I'm like SuziQ... I'm not giving any of these guys a pass. Nor am I interested in their own personal sob stories. I've grown weary of hearing about everything to which perps are "entitled." Every abused person (if that's even what they are) has a point of personal responsibility, and personal choice. Fresh out of sympathy. All I need to know now is wth is up w these ridiculously low bonds.
I think the bonds have quite a few of us scratching our heads, kiki.
PAXIMUS
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Well being that they are cash bonds they really arent that low and are actually the same as a one million dollar surety bond since a non cash surety bond of one million would cost the person 100,000 or ten percent to the bondsman.
But, assuming they are low, I would suggest that it suggests a case with not enough evidence to convince a judge to set a impossible to meet bail and ensure they arent on the streets until after trial.
At this point I see no evidence against these men but repressed memories. But maybe they havent released everything they have yet.
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