MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #1

[PAXIMUS]

I find it very interesting and telling, that family did not show up.

They may be out of town and it isnt easy to get there on short notice, we do not know and shouldnt read in to that too much YET, if they dont show up for the actual TRIAL I would say that would certainly tell us something important.

 

[pennydawn]

Can someone define "forcible compulsion"?

 

[mysticrose]

Can someone define "forcible compulsion"?

Forcible compulsion" means to compel by:

(a) Physical force; or

(b) A threat, express or implied, that places a person in fear of immediate or future death or physical injury to self or another person, or in fear that the person or another person will immediately or in the future be kidnapped


https://www.oregonlaws.org/glossary/definition/forcible_compulsion

ETA:

Example of a state statute on Forcible Compulsion

ORS § 163.305 [Title 16, Crimes and Punishments; Chapter 163. Offences against persons; sexual offences]

163.305. Definitions.

As used in chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, unless the context requires otherwise:

(2) "Forcible compulsion" means to compel by:

(a) Physical force; or

(b) A threat, express or implied, that places a person in fear of immediate or future death or physical injury to self or another person, or in fear that the person or another person will immediately or in the future be kidnapped.

ORS § 163.375 defines rape in first degree as follows:

Rape in the first degree.

(1) A person who has sexual intercourse with another person commits the crime of rape in the first degree if:

(a) The victim is subjected to forcible compulsion by the person;

(b) The victim is under 12 years of age;

(c) The victim is under 16 years of age and is the person's sibling, of the whole or half blood, the person's child or the person's spouse's child; or

(d) The victim is incapable of consent by reason of mental defect, mental incapacitation or physical helplessness.

(2) Rape in the first degree is a Class A felony

http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/forcible-compulsion/]

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm really wondering about this. Given that the girl said she was forced to watch her brother being victimized - it would seem that the brother has collaborated her story? I don't know, but I would think so?

I'm wondering why only charges were brought based on the one child's testimony. If the other children confirmed the abuse - would we not be seeing charges for the crimes against each child? I think this, more than anything, is what keeps me on the fence here. Where are the charges for the abuse against the other 4 children?

Salem

I believe LE fully expects to be filing far more charges later

 

[Trident]

Outstanding post. Of course, I am biased by my own perceptions. Had I gone to law school, I would have been a criminal defense attorney.

Frankly, I consider it God's work to defend and care for those who are imprisoned because they are surely viewed and treated as pariahs and non-humans by much of society.

Our system cannot and does not work without lawyers willing to zealously represent and protect those among us accused of the most heinous crimes.

BBM. I honestly believe a great many people in prison ARE pariahs and non-human. While I believe all deserve a fair trial, in cases such as this, if they are guilty, I'm not sure it would be God's work in the strictest sense of the word. Just suppose through a technicality one or more of these men got off and harmed another child? Would that be God's will? I don't believe God has much to do with our justice system as it operates today and, surely, He has nothing to do with pedophiles - it would be better a mill stone was hung around their necks - IF they are guilty.

My opinion only

 

[Linda7NJ]

I really think someone in their past history that they may have loved and admired told them if they had problems to just write them down and put them in a bottle and bury it and it would help them feel better. Maybe their grandmother before she passed away.

imo

I agree. I said way up threat it sounds like something only a woman would say. Maybe even their own mother.

 

[gxm]

Interesting perspectives that folks have. Personally, my biggest problem with the judicial system is that guilty people who can afford good lawyers often get off while innocent people who can't afford good lawyers go to jail. I really don't think justice should be doled out according to wealth (or lack of wealth). I also have a problem with the inhumane atmosphere of prisons, especially when inmates must endure physical assaults. IMO, it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment, but this line of conversation is probably way OT.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What is truly amazing to me is these child molesting freaks seem to go by some sort of play book. All seem to have some twisted fetish type things and the verbiage they use is all too familiar!

 

[Missizzy]

Linda--ITA!! That's what astounds me. I guess it shouldn't. Sickness is sickness--look at the dynamics of most domestic abuse cases or addiction--one similarity after another. If we could find that play book, maybe we could really educate ourselves and protect our children. As it is, pedophiles are often far more savvy than the rest of us trusting fools. So sad.

 

[PAXIMUS]

You are aware that statistics show that about 98% of all paedophiles are such because they were abused as children? These "sick and twisted child molesting freaks" as they are commonly referred to were children who were harmed once themselves.


I dont know what the answer is, they often do get out of prison and do it again, it is a compulsion, it is a sickness. All I know is that treating them like animals and calling them names isnt the answer, all we can do is protect our children from them by locking them up and trying our best to reach them and help them heal from their own past abuse.

In spite of what everyone says, that we cannot rehabilitate such offenders, I say, how do you know that, our prisons are NOT places of rehabilitation, I dont think a lot of people realize how bad our prisons are and how little actual rehabilitation goes on there. I think we should spend more time and money reforming our prison system than anything else. At least that may give some folks who made a mistake a fighting chance to turn their lives around and contribute in a positive way to society.

It also shocks me on these forums (not so much here) how casually people make light of prison rape, going so far as to say things to encourage certain offenders "get theirs" when they finally get put in prison. Lets be clear, rape is never ok prison or no prison, rape is NEVER ok and making jokes about prison rape is unacceptable.

 

[PAXIMUS]

What is truly amazing to me is these child molesting freaks seem to go by some sort of play book. All seem to have some twisted fetish type things and the verbiage they use is all too familiar!

Yes its a playbook that was forcibly written in to their brains when they were little children being abused themselves.

 

[celticthyme]

Forcible compulsion" means to compel by:

(a) Physical force; or

(b) A threat, express or implied, that places a person in fear of immediate or future death or physical injury to self or another person, or in fear that the person or another person will immediately or in the future be kidnapped


https://www.oregonlaws.org/glossary/definition/forcible_compulsion

ETA:

Example of a state statute on Forcible Compulsion

ORS § 163.305 [Title 16, Crimes and Punishments; Chapter 163. Offences against persons; sexual offences]

163.305. Definitions.

As used in chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, unless the context requires otherwise:

(2) "Forcible compulsion" means to compel by:

(a) Physical force; or

(b) A threat, express or implied, that places a person in fear of immediate or future death or physical injury to self or another person, or in fear that the person or another person will immediately or in the future be kidnapped.

ORS § 163.375 defines rape in first degree as follows:

Rape in the first degree.

(1) A person who has sexual intercourse with another person commits the crime of rape in the first degree if:

(a) The victim is subjected to forcible compulsion by the person;

(b) The victim is under 12 years of age;

(c) The victim is under 16 years of age and is the person's sibling, of the whole or half blood, the person's child or the person's spouse's child; or

(d) The victim is incapable of consent by reason of mental defect, mental incapacitation or physical helplessness.

(2) Rape in the first degree is a Class A felony

http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/forcible-compulsion/]

Thanks MysticRose.
After looking up the charges I wondered about the charge of " INCEST " not being mentioned, but did see it was a class "D" felony. Is that a lesser charge and for that reason not included?

The perps are supposed to be "innocent' until "proven" guilty

Unfortunately, the CHILDREN ARE ONLY INNOCENT UNTIL RAPED BY A FAMILY MEMBER, and then they shall never find "innocence" again . . .
God help the truly Innocent victims of this situation, and the lives of all who have forever been affected by these horrific years of abuse . . if the alleged events have happened

 

[southcitymom]

You are aware that statistics show that about 98% of all paedophiles are such because they were abused as children? These "sick and twisted child molesting freaks" as they are commonly referred to were children who were harmed once themselves.


I dont know what the answer is, they often do get out of prison and do it again, it is a compulsion, it is a sickness. All I know is that treating them like animals and calling them names isnt the answer, all we can do is protect our children from them by locking them up and trying our best to reach them and help them heal from their own past abuse.

In spite of what everyone says, that we cannot rehabilitate such offenders, I say, how do you know that, our prisons are NOT places of rehabilitation, I dont think a lot of people realize how bad our prisons are and how little actual rehabilitation goes on there. I think we should spend more time and money reforming our prison system than anything else. At least that may give some folks who made a mistake a fighting chance to turn their lives around and contribute in a positive way to society.

It also shocks me on these forums (not so much here) how casually people make light of prison rape, going so far as to say things to encourage certain offenders "get theirs" when they finally get put in prison. Lets be clear, rape is never ok prison or no prison, rape is NEVER ok and making jokes about prison rape is unacceptable.

We might have been separated at birth.

When a crime occurs, I ache for both the "perp" and the "victim". I don't understand the contention that any person who does a terrible thing is non-human or an animal.....doing terrible things to each other is an ancient habit of humans.

I have no problem with sending someone to prison because we as a society don't feel safe having them roaming about, but I loathe the fact that most of us turn our backs on them and don't give a damn about them once they are there. Many experience that as justice, but it turns my stomach. I'm constitutionally unable to give up on a fellow human being whether or not I think they can be rehabilitated. And our prisons offer very little chance of rehab.

And please don't get me started on the joy with which some people speak of prison rape. I understand many come to crime boards to vent strong feelings brought about by fear and anger, but I can never fully wrap my mind or heart around a belief that an adult man raping a child the most grotesque crime imaginable but an adult man raping another man is jim dandy.

Look me up if you ever get to do pro bono DP appeals. I've got 20 years of paralegal experience...all of it in civil lit, but I'm a quick study!

 

[Linda7NJ]

You are aware that statistics show that about 98% of all paedophiles are such because they were abused as children? These "sick and twisted child molesting freaks" as they are commonly referred to were children who were harmed once themselves.


I dont know what the answer is, they often do get out of prison and do it again, it is a compulsion, it is a sickness. All I know is that treating them like animals and calling them names isnt the answer, all we can do is protect our children from them by locking them up and trying our best to reach them and help them heal from their own past abuse.

In spite of what everyone says, that we cannot rehabilitate such offenders, I say, how do you know that, our prisons are NOT places of rehabilitation, I dont think a lot of people realize how bad our prisons are and how little actual rehabilitation goes on there. I think we should spend more time and money reforming our prison system than anything else. At least that may give some folks who made a mistake a fighting chance to turn their lives around and contribute in a positive way to society.

It also shocks me on these forums (not so much here) how casually people make light of prison rape, going so far as to say things to encourage certain offenders "get theirs" when they finally get put in prison. Lets be clear, rape is never ok prison or no prison, rape is NEVER ok and making jokes about prison rape is unacceptable.

You're wrong. The number is no where near 98%

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes its a playbook that was forcibly written in to their brains when they were little children being abused themselves.

Only about HALF the time. Sure most claim they were sexually abused themselves but polygraphed convicted child molesters tell a completely different story. Odd the ones that actually were...were the ones that typically lied and claimed they weren't.

 

[Linda7NJ]

We might have been separated at birth.

When a crime occurs, I ache for both the "perp" and the "victim". I don't understand the contention that any person who does a terrible thing is non-human or an animal.....doing terrible things to each other is an ancient habit of humans.

I have no problem with sending someone to prison because we as a society don't feel safe having them roaming about, but I loathe the fact that most of us turn our backs on them and don't give a damn about them once they are there. Many experience that as justice, but it turns my stomach. I'm constitutionally unable to give up on a fellow human being whether or not I think they can be rehabilitated. And our prisons offer very little chance of rehab.

And please don't get me started on the joy with which some people speak of prison rape. I understand many come to crime boards to vent strong feelings brought about by fear and anger, but I can never fully wrap my mind or heart around a belief that an adult man raping a child the most grotesque crime imaginable but an adult man raping another man is jim dandy.

Look me up if you ever get to do pro bono DP appeals. I've got 20 years of paralegal experience...all of it in civil lit, but I'm a quick study!

My heart doesn't ache for the perp, EVER.

If a grown man makes the conscious decision to sexually assault a child he made a choice. We all have FREE WILL. They know and completely understand what they are doing is wrong. They don't care. Why the heck should I give a rat's behind what happens to them behind bars?

Bottom line...they can not be rehabilitated and it's high time the justice system comes to grip with that sad fact. Civil commitment works. It should be implimented across the board, even for first time offenders. IMO

 

[southcitymom]

My heart doesn't ache for the perp, EVER.

If a grown man makes the conscious decision to sexually assault a child he made a choice. We all have FREE WILL. They know and completely understand what they are doing is wrong. They don't care. Why the heck should I give a rat's behind what happens to them behind bars?

Bottom line...they can not be rehabilitated and it's high time the justice system comes to grip with that sad fact. Civil commitment works. It should be implimented across the board, even for first time offenders. IMO

I know!

 

[Missizzy]

Paximus--I really enjoy reading your posts. However, I don't always agree with you. I do appreciate your succinctly stated positions. Refreshingly honest. My two best friends are attorneys and I smile to myself as I recognize many of your comments. With your stated desire to defend perps (honorable indeed) and my position as a child advocate, I can see us coming face to face across a courtroom. I have the greatest respect for your objectivity and sense of justice. I still strongly believe in the justice system but I know we've got lots of work to make it better. That's why I'm an active supporter of Crime Victims United.

I also strongly abhor any jesting concerning prison rape or violence. It is inappropriate and vile. I want to thank you for reminding us about this. I agree that our prisons are not a place of rehabilitation. Our youth facilities are possibly even worse. I believe that we, as a society, have far to go in working with criminals in a fair, just, meaningful, and safe manner.

I cannot accept that most abused children grow up to be abusers or even that most abusers were abused as children. I've spent 11 years researching this and speaking to every psychiatrist I can corner. I can't believe that as eight of my children were horribly abused. Are they forever marked and/or doomed? As I've openly stated, one of my sons is an offender and one is addicted to . One of the female victims is developmentally disabled and freely trafficked as a prostitute. As far as I know, though, the other five are hard working, caring young people who are struggling with their past demons. I have to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I can assure you that I watch them with an eagle eye and am always ready to set boundaries or to reinforce positive behaviors. I call them on any questionable behavior. Because I also have five older children, I am blessed with many grandchildren. I am watchful, trust me.

That said, what do we do with the offenders? What do you suggest we do with known and convicted pedophiles? How many strikes do we allow? Do you support the civil commitment system? I've watched in horror as that system has been exposed as having many flaws. Then what?

I stand quietly by and listen to the hurled taunts and calls for castration but I won't join in. Two men irreversibly hurt my young children but I wish no physical pain on these rapists. That would take me down to their level of evil. I guess what I want are viable answers and solutions to this never-ending dilemma. If pedophiles won't and can't stop, how do we protect the children?

 

[SuziQ]

Paximus, a perp stops being a victim the moment they become a perp. They get no sympathy from me.

 

[MBSC]

My heart doesn't ache for the perp, EVER.

If a grown man makes the conscious decision to sexually assault a child he made a choice. We all have FREE WILL. They know and completely understand what they are doing is wrong. They don't care. Why the heck should I give a rat's behind what happens to them behind bars?

AMEN, Linda!:clap: