MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[TmmEye]

FYI, I am a great resource to understanding her case since I’m from St. Louis

 

[TmmEye]

Although we've lost the sweater I could attempt to study pollen on it. The non-blood soaked areas have stains on them which may narrow down the places she came from.

 

[RookieInvestigator]

That rope looks similar to rope that we used to go fishing with when I was a child....My father had a boat...

 

[RookieInvestigator]

I also think it's possible she knew her attacker...If they ID'd her it could lead back to her attacker who could have been her caretaker....

The other possibility is necrophilia or a killer that kept her head as a trophy...If she was kidnapped far from St. Louis the killer wouldn't have to worry about some local identifying the remains.... Which didn't happen, and she's still unidentified...

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

Heard a case on the newest episode of TCG regarding the Rawlings Rodeo Murders. Royal Russell Long, possible suspect? She doesn’t seem to be his MO and she may be a little young (hard to say what his MO is), though she appeared bigger for her age. It seems he was a serial killer and only charged with one homicide of a young girl. He is connected to missing persons in OKC. He was an opportunist that found victims while traveling with a carnival. He was also a truck driver at one point. Seems unlikely but it was in the same time period. Could explain:

1.) Why she was in STL
2.) nylon rope? Used in carnivals?

But doesn’t explain:

1.) how he knew where to take her. That basement was a neighborhood that no one just stumbles on which points to a local
2.) why the killer took her head

This is tenuous obviously, but looking for insight from anyone more familiar with this .

 

[TmmEye]

These kinds of homicides are sadly, common here in St. Louis. Our highest time with no crime is four days. We get a lot of homicide here

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

These kinds of homicides are sadly, common here in St. Louis. Our highest time with no crime is four days. We get a lot of homicide here

I’m sadly aware. I’m a local as well.

 

[carbuff]

I'm not sure I agree that no one could stumble on the location. Anybody who has lived in the poor part of a city--any city--knows that there are going to be empty buildings and deserted basements. All he'd have to do is poke around until he found an unlocked door. He could have scouted it out ahead of time.

 

[Laughing]

Just chiming in -- her Wikipedia page states that she had spina bifida occulta.

Was this severe enough to cause her trouble walking? The isotope analysis indicates Southern states -- was she brought to the Shriner's Hospital in St. Louis for treatment?

Did someone offer to drive her to St. Louis for this treatment -- but actually have other ideas?

Just a thought, maybe someone knows more about spina bifida & can suggest a records search, someplace that hasn't been checked yet, with really loooooong records retention.

JMHO YMMV

RIP, young lady!

 

[TmmEye]

Spina Bifida Occulta has no physical symptoms, but if a doctor diagnosed her with it, this is a good lead.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

Spina Bifida Occulta has no physical symptoms, but if a doctor diagnosed her with it, this is a good lead.

Yeah that’s always been an interesting detail to me. Could be useful when attempting to match to missing persons.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

I'm not sure I agree that no one could stumble on the location. Anybody who has lived in the poor part of a city--any city--knows that there are going to be empty buildings and deserted basements. All he'd have to do is poke around until he found an unlocked door. He could have scouted it out ahead of time.

That’s true. That may still point to someone that spent enough time here to be able to look around.

 

[Laughing]

Anyone know when the vacant house was demolished? Various people involved in re-development could have toured the building & been well aware of the vacancy & also neighborhood traffic patterns. Google Maps satellite image indicates the entire block plus surrounding area were re-developed, but I haven't been able to figure out when.

JMHO thinking while typing YMMV

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

I read a report that the tag in her shirt was cut out. Could this have been another attempt to hide her identity? Was her name on the tag? If you look at the shirt there are four stained corners with a clean(ish) center. Makes me wonder if this indicates it was removed post-mortem.

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

I wonder if Kelly Staples has been ruled out? She vanished at the age of 6 and would have been 9 in 1983.

Kelly had a birthmark on her chest... did this Doe have any marks like that?

Kelly Juanita Staples – The Charley Project

 

[TmmEye]

Doe had no marks so this isn’t Kelly, although that isn’t always the case.

As we know, ME won’t always note every detail.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Afaik Namus is still looking for family members of Kelly Staples stop get a DNA sample from them. But she has been suggested for this uid, and Namus is aware of the possibility. I'm sure they'll compare once they can get in touch with the family.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I sent in the possible address for Fred Staples in to the case manager a few years ago. I have no idea if they followed up on it.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Well potentially it could be her.

She was from Chicago, and our JD was from St Louis. So not that far away.

Kelly was 6 and went missing in 1980, she was 3'0, is that tall for a 6 year old?

JD was
Estimated Age: 8-11 years old
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Height: 4'10" to 5'6"
Weight: 61-70 lbs.
Hair Color: Unknown
Eye Color: Unknown

She was considered tall for her age, and I have seen the photos. She was tall and skinny. She was well nourished prior to her death. So she can't have been captured for a long time. No signs of prior abuse. SO somehow I doubt JD was held captive for a long time, I don't think she's Kelly. I don't think she's in namus at all.

Most likely she's either recently came to St Louis to live with relatives cause her mother died OR she was living in a Orphanage prior to this where she was sent to a family of caretakers that did this to her. The person that killed her didn't want her to be identified at any cost because he would easily be associated with her, that's why her head was removed PM.

Look for orphanages or group homes for children in the Chicago area (somehow I feel like she's from there cause it was rough in the 80's) and try to find list of kids that were removed or given to caretakers around that time. Remember back in 1983, diffrent states didn't cooperate like today. That's how Ted Bundy escaped from jail on the west side and went to Florida got arrested and nobody made that connection!

Another chance would be if her mother died or was a murder victim around that time and relatives took care of her or perhaps the killer took her child. But I feel like the latter would've made bigger news. If her mother died (not murdered) it's likely she was given to relatives just weeks before this and she moved to St Louis, where she knew nobody. She was around 8-11 so she did go to school somewhere, perhaps some grown woman would be wondering whatever happened to her classmate that moved to St Louis back in 1983 is today? That's what happened to Tammy Alexander.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

Well potentially it could be her.

She was from Chicago, and our JD was from St Louis. So not that far away.

Kelly was 6 and went missing in 1980, she was 3'0, is that tall for a 6 year old?

JD was
Estimated Age: 8-11 years old
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Height: 4'10" to 5'6"
Weight: 61-70 lbs.
Hair Color: Unknown
Eye Color: Unknown

She was considered tall for her age, and I have seen the photos. She was tall and skinny. She was well nourished prior to her death. So she can't have been captured for a long time. No signs of prior abuse. SO somehow I doubt JD was held captive for a long time, I don't think she's Kelly. I don't think she's in namus at all.

Most likely she's either recently came to St Louis to live with relatives cause her mother died OR she was living in a Orphanage prior to this where she was sent to a family of caretakers that did this to her. The person that killed her didn't want her to be identified at any cost because he would easily be associated with her, that's why her head was removed PM.

Look for orphanages or group homes for children in the Chicago area (somehow I feel like she's from there cause it was rough in the 80's) and try to find list of kids that were removed or given to caretakers around that time. Remember back in 1983, diffrent states didn't cooperate like today. That's how Ted Bundy escaped from jail on the west side and went to Florida got arrested and nobody made that connection!

Another chance would be if her mother died or was a murder victim around that time and relatives took care of her or perhaps the killer took her child. But I feel like the latter would've made bigger news. If her mother died (not murdered) it's likely she was given to relatives just weeks before this and she moved to St Louis, where she knew nobody. She was around 8-11 so she did go to school somewhere, perhaps some grown woman would be wondering whatever happened to her classmate that moved to St Louis back in 1983 is today? That's what happened to Tammy Alexander.

Isotopic evidence indicates STL JD was from one of several southern states at least the majority of her life. I believe she is not likely from STL or Chicago. If Vernon is our killer he travelled across at least 35 states. She could be from anywhere.