MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[cherryzard]

IMHO I don't think she was local. The PD did a thorough review through all of the schools and reaching out to the community. It was just 1-2 years after the Atlanta child murders so the community was hyper aware of missing children but no one came forward.

That actually makes sense now that you say it, it's just shocking how she did not seem to be from anywhere at all, although I still stand by her being somehow known to the authorities (CPS).

 

[Reality Orlando]

I haven't read the entire thread but have they tried to run a recent DNA match to online submissions through Ancestry, etc?

 

[Sweetluv]

The decapitation makes me think personal rather than random...
If they can identify her, then it will lead back to the family or family friend...
Someone or more than one person did not want her to be easily identified...JMO

 

[Sweetluv]

This case really bothers me.
She is loved and thought about on this thread for sure!
I hope her killer or killers...are reminded of what they did every night before they go to bed!

 

[Mors_Et_Vita]

Is it possible the little girl had Marfan syndrome?

 

[Sweetluv]

A DNA lab might be the key to solving this sweet little Angel's murder.

 

[lonewanderer]

I take the opposite position here, that the child most likely wasn't living with either biological parent, but just some peripheral relative or guardian who probably didn't act responsibly on her behalf. This is just a guess; but when a whole family dies or disappears, that's big news (see the Shorts of Henry County, VA, for example), and there would likely have been a lot of publicity attending the event.

Sadly, I cannot agree with this point fully. People of color tend to get much less exposure by the media.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

R/Os

Sherri Truesdale
Beverly Ward
Yohanna Cyr
Newton Cty (IN) Jane D
Telethia Good
Sherise Magee
Toya Hill
UID Fem Northampton Cty, NC
Sheila Quinn
Shaunda Green
Sharaun Cole

MP2543
Nikole Betterson
Dec. 1st, 1977
Washtenaw
MI

has been added to the NamUs ruleout list.

 

[cherryzard]

Is it possible the little girl had Marfan syndrome?

Seems likely, although I think it only had something to do with the spine only.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

MP2543
Nikole Betterson
Dec. 1st, 1977
Washtenaw
MI

has been added to the NamUs ruleout list.

Here is Nikole's thread. See some of you there.
MI - MI - Nikole Betterson, 2, Dearborn, Dec 1977

 

[Springrain]

Doe Network says she had spina bifida occulta on her sacrum. Is that a feature of Marfan syndrome?

I know there have been speculations about her possibly having Marfan syndrome dating back years, and I am not a medical expert, but if it's based off her being tall I wouldn't put too much stock into that. I (a woman) certainly do not have Marfan syndrome, and I was 5'4/5'5 at 11, 4'10 at 9, roughly consistent with this Jane Doe's height and age. I'm a taller woman but definitely not super tall (5'8 as an adult). If the spina bifida occulta is a sign of Marfan syndrome though, that makes sense to me. I think there was a big estimate range since her head was missing too, poor darling

Sadly, I cannot agree with this point fully. People of color tend to get much less exposure by the media.

Sadly, very true. Even more so if they were living in poverty, immigrants, undocumented, etc. This makes me think of "Adam" - the little boy, thought to be a smuggled Nigerian child, whose torso was found in a river in London. I'm not saying St. Louis Jane Doe's circumstances were remotely the same as Adam's, just saying how missing/murdered POC get less recognition and exposure, so they could slip under the radar. Especially if St. Louis Jane Doe's family had immigrated from another country or continent and either didn't have much of a social network in the US, and/or reported her missing but the report got lost or thrown out when her 18th birthday came, and/or her family had a mistrust of police and didn't report her missing.

 

[Laughing]

Especially if St. Louis Jane Doe's family had immigrated from another country or continent and either didn't have much of a social network in the US, and/or reported her missing but the report got lost or thrown out when her 18th birthday came, and/or her family had a mistrust of police and didn't report her missing.

rsbm bbm

Or, in this scenario, the child was sent to be a servant in another family -- and no one expected her to write, since no one was literate in their home language or the family as yet had no fixed address???

Waris Dirie - Wikipedia

I get most of my exercise jumping to conclusions. I like to connect dots, when there are not enough dots, maybe I'll create some....

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[lonewanderer]

Sadly, very true. Even more so if they were living in poverty, immigrants, undocumented, etc. This makes me think of "Adam" - the little boy, thought to be a smuggled Nigerian child, whose torso was found in a river in London. I'm not saying St. Louis Jane Doe's circumstances were remotely the same as Adam's, just saying how missing/murdered POC get less recognition and exposure, so they could slip under the radar. Especially if St. Louis Jane Doe's family had immigrated from another country or continent and either didn't have much of a social network in the US, and/or reported her missing but the report got lost or thrown out when her 18th birthday came, and/or her family had a mistrust of police and didn't report her missing.

I listen to A LOT of true crime podcasts and YT channels.

One thing I have noticed is that when there is a minority (African-American in particular) is that many of the family members just simply do not trust the police.
This can lead to them being very evasive, or avoiding talking to the police. When persons of color are involved in a lot of those cases, it becomes very confusing at points and the details get very murky. "Missing White Woman Syndrome" is a very real thing, but the points I just made are never mentioned in it. The focus is more on how its biased to focus all of the attention on a young, pretty, white woman. This is also true, but the full extent of the reasons are not completely disclosed in my opinion.

Just my opinion but, I think many of their family members tell them that the police are not their friends and to never talk to them under any circumstances. If we are being brutally honest, plenty of innocent white people also go to an interrogation room to help with a murder case and also wind up as a suspect or charged with a murder they did not commit.

 

[Springrain]

Or, in this scenario, the child was sent to be a servant in another family -- and no one expected her to write, since no one was literate in their home language or the family as yet had no fixed address???

Definitely very possible IMO. I could see this Jane Doe being a "mother's helper" sent to the US from another country, or being part of a maid's service that sends young girls to other countries. I definitely do not think this is out of the realm of possibility. Especially when considering the little Adam boy found in London that I mentioned.

 

[Sweetluv]

This case really bothers me. The condition of the body..and how she was just left in an abandoned house. This young girl should have been playing, laughing, going to school, and being a carefree little girl instead of enduring what she did.
Not only do I hope this precious one is identified, but the monster(s) is identified too..and brought to justice!

 

[HMSHood]

My thoughts exactly. It makes me think it was a family member and they are covering it up. Who and where are this girls parents?

It makes you wonder why her family has not come forward.

 

[cyberpanda]

This is one of those cases that has bothered me for years. I live about 30 minutes from St. Louis in Illinois, and I can't help but feel chills every time I'm near the area she was found.

I have no information or insight to add, but I just read through this entire forum and I'm blown away at all the research and dedication everyone has put into this girl's case. I hope and pray that we find a name for this little angel soon, and make sure she gets the justice she deserves. Thank you to everyone who has spent countless hours digging through archived newspapers and possible NamUs matches. I'm looking forward to any more hits or discussions in the future!

Edit to add: One thing I found odd was that she was decapitated VERY low on her neck, from what I hear it was right above the shoulders (I refuse to look at the crime scene and autopsy pictures, this is just what I read in this forum)
This makes me believe that she was decapitated because she had some sort of distinguishing feature on her neck or head. Whoever the monster was that did this wasn't being reckless; I think they were very cautious of their moves.
In addition, from what I've seen of people holding up her sweater, it looks quite large for something a little girl would wear. Does anyone know if the sweater even fit her? IMO it looks like it would be way too large for an 8-11 year old girl.

 

[Sweetluv]

Welcome cyberpanda!
This is definitely one of those cases that disturb you to the core.

 

[lonewanderer]

This is one of those cases that has bothered me for years. I live about 30 minutes from St. Louis in Illinois, and I can't help but feel chills every time I'm near the area she was found.

I have no information or insight to add, but I just read through this entire forum and I'm blown away at all the research and dedication everyone has put into this girl's case. I hope and pray that we find a name for this little angel soon, and make sure she gets the justice she deserves. Thank you to everyone who has spent countless hours digging through archived newspapers and possible NamUs matches. I'm looking forward to any more hits or discussions in the future!

Edit to add: One thing I found odd was that she was decapitated VERY low on her neck, from what I hear it was right above the shoulders (I refuse to look at the crime scene and autopsy pictures, this is just what I read in this forum)
This makes me believe that she was decapitated because she had some sort of distinguishing feature on her neck or head. Whoever the monster was that did this wasn't being reckless; I think they were very cautious of their moves.
In addition, from what I've seen of people holding up her sweater, it looks quite large for something a little girl would wear. Does anyone know if the sweater even fit her? IMO it looks like it would be way too large for an 8-11 year old girl.

I have actually been thinking about this case quite a bit lately, and that's a very original thought for an explanation!

What keeps going through my mind is that someone may have removed her head because she couldn't fit into whatever it was they were using to transport her body. I would say she was too big for one large suitcase, but maybe a chest or ruggedized box.

IIRC in the Trace Evidence Podcast episode on her, there was blood found on the wall suggesting that whoever carried her down there smeared some of the blood on the wall by mistake where her body was bleeding from the decapitation.

My big question is; was she tied up before or after she was taken down the steps? I imagine it much easier to carry a lifeless body of a child down the stairs like you are putting them to bed, legs dangli

 

[lonewanderer]

Potential? I have not seen her listed.

She was reported missing in March 1982.


Toya Katrina Hill

• 
• 

Toya, circa 1982; Age-progression to age 34 (circa 2007)

• Missing Since 03/24/1982
• Missing From Baltimore, Maryland
• Classification Non-Family Abduction
• Sex Female
• Race Black
• Date of Birth 08/24/1973 (48)
• Age 8 years old
• Height and Weight4'0, 80 pounds
• Clothing/Jewelry Description A blue jacket, a blue and orange striped top and blue jeans.
• Distinguishing Characteristics African-American female. Black hair, brown eyes. Toya wears eyeglasses, but she wasn't wearing them at the time of her disappearance. She has a chipped front tooth and a deep dimple in her left cheek.

Link: Toya Katrina Hill – The Charley Project