GUILTY MO - Tyler Dasher, 1, Affton, 15 Nov 2011 - #2

Her friends also called her an independent mom,which being unemployed,living with her mom is far from an independent mother.I feel it is probably a very similar situation like CA was in. I wonder if the mom will be in CA denial or will she see her daughter for the monster she is. I am hoping she puts Tyler first but we shall see.

Good point about her being an independent mom.

I noticed her mom wasn't at her hearing today... I considered that a pretty big statement... but it could have been logistical as well.
 
I do agree with you but not in a case like this one.Shelby put Tyler to bed at 6pm to go out and party.She came home drunk at 2:30 am she killed Tyler because probably after hours of being awake with a dirty diaper,empty tummy he just wanted out of the crib he had been in since 6pm.God knows how many times he was left in his crib while mommy slept the day away.She is a selfish ,uncaring ,underage drinking witch IMO.How do we stop that from happening?

Shelby said originally that she put Tyler to bed at 6:30 but I am thinking we are going to hear something different now that she's confessed. I would be surprised if grandma would be on board with Shelby putting Tyler to bed at 6:30 if she had to get up early for work the next day and Shelby was going to be going out that night. If it was me, I'd want Tyler to stay up until a reasonable time in which you could expect him to not be waking up at 2 or 3 am wanting to play and start his day. I have never met a baby yet who sleeps from 6 pm until 11 am the next day. Thats 17 hours.

Sadly I agree that Tyler probably spent a whole lot of time in his crib while grandma was at work and mom was asleep. I hear and read people calling Shelby "evil" and "sick" but I really don't think she's either of those. So far all I see is a selfish, immature, unfeeling brat who is incapable of empathy or responsibility of any kind. I rarely buy the "sick" label because I think it's rarely true. As for "evil"...well I don't think I'm allowed to go there on this board.

I think Shelby is going to be experiencing some real remorse very soon if she isn't already, but I don't think it will be because she misses her son and wishes he wasn't dead. I think it will be because her sorry butt got caught. If I had been a friend of family member, I would be mortified beyond belief right now. Regardless of whether they thought Shelby was a fantastic mother or just an irresponsible slacker, I bet nobody saw this coming. Sadly, it doesn't really surprise any of us at all, does it? I hate what that says.
 
I have to disagree. This child was not killed by being hit once in the head or tossed out a window a quick action of rage, he was hit over and over again what I imagine a very slow bloody process. Once she came down from her rage she didn't realize what she had done and then tried to save him, she walked him to a nearby cemetery and through him in a bush face down. I bet the part we are not hearing is that he was possibly alive when dumped in the bush, that would be something that would clench first degree, refusal to get medical intervention therefore letting him die from her beating. Which I am almost certain happened here. He was hit over and over again, I am sure he cried, begged, tried to move away he was a 1 year old, no visiting newborn nurse could have helped him.

There are times when all mothers feel overwhelmed - I was a mother at 16 and I had my share of moments of anger, but let me tell you that hitting my child over and over until he died would not be something a NORMAL person would do. There are no programs or health services or prevention services that can predict and cure pure evil selfishness. This girl lived with her mom who supported her, it took her to the age of 20 to graduate high school, she is NOT a child nor do we need to pacify what she did with the ills of society and the fact that she was poor and not very educated. If she were a man or the boyfriend of the mother we would not be making excuses.

The problem is that there are very scary people out there who have no love for their children and have no business having them, they don't have the love and mental capabilities to take care of a child. If you can beat your child who is 1 to death then throw him away in the cold and then go back home see your family cry for him and just stand there, then you are evil and deserve to be punished to full extent of the law.

Again had she stopped beating him and tried to save his life, then we could say it was rage and she snapped. But she didn't and he is dead. MO

ITA!:furious::furious::furious:
 
Good point about her being an independent mom.

I noticed her mom wasn't at her hearing today... I considered that a pretty big statement... but it could have been logistical as well.



Her mother's absence speaks volumes IMO.
 
Sad that they weren't there when he was alive. :(

And they're taking donations for the headstone. This child didn't stand a chance.

I don't understand. Is it the dad's fault because he was mentally ill? If the dad even lived with his son/girlfriend, that may not have stopped her from killing Tyler.

There's only one person at fault here - and that's Shelby. Not the dad, not the grandmother, and certainly not the in-laws.

If I'm reading your post wrong, please help me understand.

Thanks,

Mel
 
Whoa!! Please read the 4th comment in this link. It's from a guy who claim to have hung out with Shelby right before she went home. He claims they did not drink or do drugs...just smoked a blunt. I wonder if this is someone making a fake comment (but why?) or if it's real and this guy is that stupid. Either way I really have a hard time believing they weren't also drinking. Of course my opinion only.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Moth...n-court-134036823.html?commentPage=0#comments

I'm really new to this forum. I started reading the first day Tyler was found in the woods. I live in Saint Louis and can't begin to express how sad the whole city is for this little cutie. I joined the forum because you guys all seem to have very good hearts and are good people with interesting things to say.

That being said, I am a 43 year old single women with no children. I planned it that way because I knew I was just not ready to give a baby the best possible life they deserved. Now that I own my own house, own my own business, settled down, etc.....I would have taken that adorable little boy in a heartbeat!!
 
I do agree with you but not in a case like this one.Shelby put Tyler to bed at 6pm to go out and party.She came home drunk at 2:30 am she killed Tyler because probably after hours of being awake with a dirty diaper,empty tummy he just wanted out of the crib he had been in since 6pm.God knows how many times he was left in his crib while mommy slept the day away.She is a selfish ,uncaring ,underage drinking witch IMO.How do we stop that from happening?

Well, mothers and fathers can start by letting their kids know what they will and will not put up with. And if they get pregnant, the parents can tell them that they will have to take full responsibility for the child, can no longer "party" or otherwise act irresponsibly, must get a job or be in school and put the child first, otherwise, the grandparents will boot their behinds out of the house after getting a solid guardianship of the grandchild. That's for starters.

Also, we need more mandatory and serious programs in high schools about birth control, the difficulty and reality of raising a child and parenting classes for all teens, boys and girls, along with economics on raising them - what it costs, etc.

We also need to strive for a culture that instead of glorifying irresponsible and violent teen parents with reality shows, puts a bit more shame into bringing a child into the world when one is too immature and irresponsible to properly care for it. A lot of the mothers who kill their kids seem to look at the child as a toy or accessory but if there was some societal shame in making babies and keeping them rather than giving them up when one cannot provide a life for them, maybe the lure of having such a "pet" would be lessened.

I think we also need to be able to look for the signs more. We are talking about how Shelby was viewed as a mom. Her friends viewed her as "independent" and a good mom because Tyler wailed when she left the room for a moment. Maybe the friends would not see those as signs, but if we had more dialogue, like we are having here, maybe more mature adults would and ask some questions.

Finally, as members of society, we have to all strive to make that society more focused on being decent people, helping one another, being responsible, loving our families and putting the welfare of dependent souls like little children, animals, the elderly and the sick, above the quest for money or things or status. The vapid, narcissistic trend in our society as evidenced by the popularity of carp like Jersey Shore, the Real Housewives, etc., and the glorification of people like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan, impacts immoral or amoral people to a greater degree than it does moral, ethical ones. It makes them feel there are no consequences for getting whatever they want and hurting people to get it. It makes them feel like they can get away with anything. It feeds their evil.

snipped for space

Remember that first basic psych class in college? In ours they talked a lot about Ainsworth and maternal attachment. Around 9-10 months it's completely normal for all kids to go through a phase where they cry more with separation of those they see the most. However, it's considered a rather minimal display (depending on how it's reinforced) and kids settle easy, and are happy upon mom re-entering the room, and they outgrow it. This is a general response, obviously a sleepy baby may not settle well after getting upset, but generally that's the theory with an otherwise content child.

Then there is Ambivalent Attachment and in AA the child becomes more extremely distressed because they feel insecure in their ability to provide for them as it is. It can also take longer for their distress to simmer off. It is considered to be caused by the mother not being available.

The Avoident Attachment category is the one where the child shows no real preference for their mother over others.

Just an interesting thought on attachment... it's hard to say never having been able to see them together. I have to believe that most normal mothers who love their babies can't do this though...

I do remember although I don't remember the exact terms (it has been awhile)! Makes sense!

I never called myself an AP mom, because I didn't want to be bound to a method... and it was a majorly underground movement when I was reading about it anyway, so there was no need to label. But my parenting (and foster parenting to the extent appropriate) happens to fall in line with AP. I had a sling from South America years before they were available in the US. IME what your friends tell you is true.

Slings are the most amazing therapy for babies and toddlers with attachment disorders. Based on my own experience with my kids getting older, I do have strong beliefs in the benefits of early and prolonged attachment between child and caregiver. Unfortunately, I see many moms falling in hook, line, and sinker into a version of this movement which is much more black and white than it was originally intended. I wont' get into the implications of that, but falling to hard for anything and losing your balance is a bad thing IMO.

OT for a moment but I'm right with ya'. My family is from southern Europe mostly and what is called attachment parenting here is just parenting there. Babies don't generally sleep in their own rooms at night. They aren't left with sitters. They are held or rocked til' they fall asleep. There is no concept of letting a child cry to strengthen their lungs or learn to soothe themselves. Babies are held almost constantly. never would a bottle be propped in a child's mouth, babies are fed when they are hungry, not on a schedule, etc., etc. I used to laugh watching my aunts practically break their necks trying to be the first to reach whatever child whimpered a tiny bit. Being exposed to American parenting styles, having been raised here, it almost annoyed me at times.

But I also agree that some of the parents following the attachment parenting craze are just nuts. They will never let their child be without skin-to-skin contact for a moment? It's okay to let baby learn to crawl or develop muscles from sitting up, instead of being hunched over into the sling all the time. Wow, sometimes when we adopt something here, we go crazy with it.

I'll add that the parenting style we are more familiar with, with the schedules and the separate rooms, the crib, the letting a baby cry and be "independent", that's a style that came from the Victorian era and which had to do with control and science, more than instinct and it reflected more of an American love of independence over communal-based mindsets.

In any event, we certainly can surmise that little Tyler neither experienced attachment parenting or regular American parenting designed to foster independence. Either one would have been a blessing compared with his sad fate.
 
Whoa!! Please read the 4th comment in this link. It's from a guy who claim to have hung out with Shelby right before she went home. He claims they did not drink or do drugs...just smoked a blunt. I wonder if this is someone making a fake comment (but why?) or if it's real and this guy is that stupid. Either way I really have a hard time believing they weren't also drinking. Of course my opinion only.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Moth...n-court-134036823.html?commentPage=0#comments

I'm really new to this forum. I started reading the first day Tyler was found in the woods. I live in Saint Louis and can't begin to express how sad the whole city is for this little cutie. I joined the forum because you guys all seem to have very good hearts and are good people with interesting things to say.

That being said, I am a 43 year old single women with no children. I planned it that way because I knew I was just not ready to give a baby the best possible life they deserved. Now that I own my own house, own my own business, settled down, etc.....I would have taken that adorable little boy in a heartbeat!!
:fireworks::welcome::fireworks:
 
I've been on vacation (TO) and I learned about this tragedy by reading news papers and by reading here. I've literally cried with all of you. I've been touched by the hundreds of post here that show how much the people of WS care about this type crime and Tyler.
I don't have much to say except I'm glad his murderer is in jail.
 
gitana1,
What a gift you are to this forum! You are wonderful for sharing your knowledge with everyone here. :goldcrown:
 
Being honest here: Before I had children 30 years ago, I used to ask how anyone could hurt their child. Then I had 2 (they are now 25 and 22) and I realized, if you weren't in complete control of yourself, it could happen. I never hurt my children, because I was in control and they were my first thought waking up and my last thought before I went to sleep. Some people don't put their children first and that is when the tragedy happens. It is so sad. I now have a wonderful 5 month old granddaughter and she is such a happy baby, but she does have her moments, but my daughter and son-in-law are great parents and do whatever they can to make her feel content. That is being a parent.
 
Absolutely. I have worked with pregnant teens in their childbirth experience through the first 6 months of life, and it's amazing. You can tell the ones who will "make it" vs. the ones who flat out don't have a mother's heart. Some completely get it (less than half, for sure) and some treat their babies like an irritation and are kind of bored with the well check visits. There was this one teen Mom who had a baby losing weight (HELLO, MOST MOMS FREAK OUT at that) and she was clearly irritated and agitated with me when we drifted off the topic of how SHE was recovering from childbirth to how the baby was not thriving. Her baby was removed by CPS, thankfully. She just treated that sweetie like a houseplant that you don't care if they thrive or not.

A simple thanks was not enough.....

I completely agree with your quote......" You can tell the ones who will "make it" vs. the ones who flat out don't have a mother's heart."

I have a sister that absoultely did NOT... "have a mother's heart"...She birthed 3 children and did not raise any of them.

Her oldest son was raised by his father and step mom. I raised her darling daughter as my own, after she told her father that the step father was sexually molesting her. My sister continued to live with the step father and never believed that he "did those horrible things" to her 8 year old daughter. Karma came back to bite him, because he was killed in a car accident when my niece was 17 years old. My sister NEVER gave me one cent of support and would not even get her daughter a Christmas or Birthday present. Their birth father sent court ordered Child Support payments to my sister, for her daughter and her youngest son. My sister eventually sued him for an increase in Child Support and that backfired....because the he had the Judge send 1/2 the new amount to me. Boy was she angry about that! When the wicked "step father" died she demanded that her 18 year old son and 17 year old daughter move back home with her. They were needed to help her raise the youngest son who was 8 years old at that time.

My niece suffered greatly from the trauma that that sorry piece of carp and her birth mother did to her. On a lighter note, my niece is now 43 years old and has a darling 3 year old boy...whom I consider my grandson. He has been reading since he was 2 1/2...totally amazing all of his Day Care Teachers. He does not yet know his alphabet...but he reads stories and books. My older nephew has two very bright and gifted sons who are 8 and 11. My youngest nephew is a chronic stubstance abuser and is married with no kids. My sister is still the "Grieving Widow" who never quite got her life together.

In my humble opinion...this young mother defintely DID NOT have a "Mother's Heart"...much like Casey Anthony. These two women were not capable of loving their little children. If they were "bonded" with their sweet babies they would have NEVER been able to cause them ANY physical harm. A "Loving Mother" would never kill their precious child! Children are a special gift from God and should be Treasured NOT Murdered!

Dear God...Please Take Care of Your Sweet Angels Tyler Dasher and Caylee Anthony
 
When I was a first-time mother, I told a nurse at the hospital that I was worried that I wouldn't do the right things ~ and I was a 27-year-old college graduate!

The nurse shook her head and told me, "You'll be fine. It's the girls down the hall who won't even pick up their babies that are the problem."

Also, my mother was a 17-year-old war bride when she had her first baby, but she was fine too (and so was her child, my brother, who is 65 now).

It's what is inside of a woman that makes her a good mother, and not age or circumstances. This killer-mom was lacking something in her emotional make-up, and I'm not going to blame her own mother or the father's family (who weren't there).

This girl may have seen herself as a victim, but I don't see her that way. What we see over and over with these child-killers is that they are immature and don't want the responsibility - and that goes for men too, such as Scott Peterson, who was much older than this girl, but just as evil. :twocents:
 
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Slain-in ... 89678.html
Slain infant’s father speaks out about son’s death --
joeellington.jpg

--snipped---

News 4’s Russell Kinsaul spoke with Ellington on Thursday and said he wanted to set the record straight about his role in Tyler’s life and about his mental health.

Ellington said that he tried to play an active role in Tyler’s life. Although he and Shelby Dasher never married, he spoke of happy times when all three were together. He also said that the mug shot of Shelby did not look like the person he’d loved. And he was shocked to hear of Tyler’s death.

Ellington said he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, but it is under control, thanks to medication. He also said that Tyler’s funeral will be held Monday. Details are still being worked out.

http://www.stltoday.com/funeral-arrange ... f6878.html
Tyler Dasher funeral arrangements set
--snipped--

Visitation will be held at 9:30 a.m., with the funeral to follow at 10:30 a.m. Burial will be at Mt. Hope Cemetery in Lemay.

Donations to the Tyler Dasher Memorial Fund can be made at any U.S. Bank.

Tyler's father's family said the money will be used to pay for a headstone, with any additional funds to be donated to the St. Louis Crisis Nursery and other organizations that provide support for mothers and children.
 
Oh, I totally believe that from my own experiences with parenting, and other mothers. Those who think they'll "spoil" their child by holding them and loving them in infancy - so they ignore the child's needs for closeness - end up in fact, with clingy insecure children. The kids don't think the world's a safe place to be, because when they are scared/hungry/cold their needs for comfort and help have been completely ignored.

Hello, I am a long time lurker, first time poster and I just had to share my own experience with 'attachment' parenting.

I wasn't subscribing to any particular parenting 'method' when my daughter was a baby (she is now 10), but she was held and spoken to constantly, never made to 'cry it out', and she was/is a happy, confident toddler/child. I actually used to worry a bit that she never had separation anxiety and seemed to never have met a stranger (yipes!:loveyou:). People used to/still comment on how happy and outgoing she was/is!

I am not saying that every child who clings or has separation issues is unloved or mistreated-PLEASE don't anyone think that!-but so many of these 'disposable' children have been described in this way and it grieves me to think of a little one trying so hard to 'earn' a parent's love. My heart breaks into pieces for these unloved, unwanted babies.

Thanks for letting me share.
 
Welcome to Websleuths FrayedKnot!!!

We are glad you are here!
 
Well, mothers and fathers can start by letting their kids know what they will and will not put up with. And if they get pregnant, the parents can tell them that they will have to take full responsibility for the child, can no longer "party" or otherwise act irresponsibly, must get a job or be in school and put the child first, otherwise, the grandparents will boot their behinds out of the house after getting a solid guardianship of the grandchild. That's for starters.

Also, we need more mandatory and serious programs in high schools about birth control, the difficulty and reality of raising a child and parenting classes for all teens, boys and girls, along with economics on raising them - what it costs, etc.

We also need to strive for a culture that instead of glorifying irresponsible and violent teen parents with reality shows, puts a bit more shame into bringing a child into the world when one is too immature and irresponsible to properly care for it. A lot of the mothers who kill their kids seem to look at the child as a toy or accessory but if there was some societal shame in making babies and keeping them rather than giving them up when one cannot provide a life for them, maybe the lure of having such a "pet" would be lessened.

I think we also need to be able to look for the signs more. We are talking about how Shelby was viewed as a mom. Her friends viewed her as "independent" and a good mom because Tyler wailed when she left the room for a moment. Maybe the friends would not see those as signs, but if we had more dialogue, like we are having here, maybe more mature adults would and ask some questions.

Finally, as members of society, we have to all strive to make that society more focused on being decent people, helping one another, being responsible, loving our families and putting the welfare of dependent souls like little children, animals, the elderly and the sick, above the quest for money or things or status. The vapid, narcissistic trend in our society as evidenced by the popularity of carp like Jersey Shore, the Real Housewives, etc., and the glorification of people like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan, impacts immoral or amoral people to a greater degree than it does moral, ethical ones. It makes them feel there are no consequences for getting whatever they want and hurting people to get it. It makes them feel like they can get away with anything. It feeds their evil.



I do remember although I don't remember the exact terms (it has been awhile)! Makes sense!



OT for a moment but I'm right with ya'. My family is from southern Europe mostly and what is called attachment parenting here is just parenting there. Babies don't generally sleep in their own rooms at night. They aren't left with sitters. They are held or rocked til' they fall asleep. There is no concept of letting a child cry to strengthen their lungs or learn to soothe themselves. Babies are held almost constantly. never would a bottle be propped in a child's mouth, babies are fed when they are hungry, not on a schedule, etc., etc. I used to laugh watching my aunts practically break their necks trying to be the first to reach whatever child whimpered a tiny bit. Being exposed to American parenting styles, having been raised here, it almost annoyed me at times.

But I also agree that some of the parents following the attachment parenting craze are just nuts. They will never let their child be without skin-to-skin contact for a moment? It's okay to let baby learn to crawl or develop muscles from sitting up, instead of being hunched over into the sling all the time. Wow, sometimes when we adopt something here, we go crazy with it.

I'll add that the parenting style we are more familiar with, with the schedules and the separate rooms, the crib, the letting a baby cry and be "independent", that's a style that came from the Victorian era and which had to do with control and science, more than instinct and it reflected more of an American love of independence over communal-based mindsets.

In any event, we certainly can surmise that little Tyler neither experienced attachment parenting or regular American parenting designed to foster independence. Either one would have been a blessing compared with his sad fate.

I agree 100% about things we can do as a society, and as parents ourselves. It has to be talked about from an early enough age to catch them before irresponsible sex and whimsical ideas are already happening too, when you still have a pretty good and open communication. None of my kids can yet physically get pg, and the older ones already understand what is involved in mothering, and that your teen days are over the minute you decide to become a parent. If you're not comfortable with that, we are lucky to have a lot of open adoption families in our life as an example of options. They have seen these teen moms get to go on to be teens, while still getting to spend holidays and college breaks visiting and knowing their child.

My family isn't culturally American either, nor is my husband's. AP, generally speaking, is the norm in our familial circles. I'd go so far as to say it's more of a community attachment practice. I remember when I was reading Ainsworth and similar attachment theorists, how much that just hit me as just common sense. Like you said, mainstream parenting or any semi-normal functioning parenting would have been beautiful for this sweet boy, anything but the horror he was faced with.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
216
Guests online
845
Total visitors
1,061

Forum statistics

Threads
625,967
Messages
18,517,223
Members
240,914
Latest member
CalvinJ
Back
Top