Moorers' Bond Hearing - #2

[Madeleine74]

State attorney said from behind the dumpsters. She did not mention a brick wall or clarify exactly what she meant.

 

[magnolia]

State attorney said from behind the dumpsters. She did not mention a brick wall or clarify exactly what she meant.

So, we really don't know if he was actually hiding behind the dumpsters.

 

[OkieGranny]

Checking satellite view, there is a place to park behind the dumpsters.

 

[Cinnamon]

Did the State Attorney say he came from behind one of the dumpsters or from that direction?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...8#post11451418

Approximately 14:30 in video link below, the State said:
"...that tape shows SM coming out from behind some dumpsters, in the middle of the night..."

http://www.wistv.com/clip/11086181/full-video-moorer-bond-reconsideration-hearing-part-2

So, we really don't know if he was actually hiding behind the dumpsters.

Correct, I don't think we know that. I never heard her use the word "hiding" but I'd have to listen again. Just wanted to provide the link where she said he came from behind dumpsters.

 

[bestill]

So, we really don't know if he was actually hiding behind the dumpsters.

Poor choice of words on my part.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I'm also having a hard time with the timeline as far as what the state contends happened. With all of the texts/phone calls...it's obvious that the Moorers initiated some contact for some reason. Then Heather goes to PTL. Here's where I have a problem. The state has what they believe is the Moorers truck heading to PTL, then returning a couple minutes later. Somewhere during that time HE's cell stops pinging. That would seem pretty telling. Except HOW in the world do you abduct or even kill someone within that short 4 minute period or whatever...and dispose of a body/cell/keys without their being a crime scene with evidence left behind. Or if they had abducted her....there is NO WAY ON EARTH that there wouldn't be at least SOME DNA of her's in that truck if they had killed her on the way back down leaving PTL. It just doesn't seem like enough time. Now...if the time line had included an hour or something i'd say thats enough time for someone that might be adept to take care of it and clean up evidence from the scene.

I DO believe they were somehow involved...but I don't see any way possible to a conviction within that timeline without SOME kind of DNA or crime scene. Anyone else have a problem with that short window?

Finally, anyone that studies suicides will tell you that almost ALL suicides aren't able to do it where they can't be found. They just don't care once they are gone. Heather's phone wasn't at PTL long enough for her to break it or throw it in the water and then go hide somewhere far enough or well enough that she'd still not be found today. I don't think even the defense would waste their time with that theory.

BBM: I respectfully disagree. A person, deceased or alive, wrapped in a tarp or plastic would have an extremely good change of not leaving any DNA. A person, deceased or tied up and put in a truck bed or tool box, then that truck bed or tool box being scrupulously cleaned would have a good chance of not leaving DNA (It happens). A person, deceased or alive being placed in any kind of container and the whole container being disposed of would have a good chance of not leaving any DNA.

I'm still of the mind that Heather went in the water. Fast, easy, and the perp can convince themselves that they didn't actually kill her. They just threw her in the water. If she drowned, it wasn't THEIR fault.

Depending on how everything lines up, conviction is possible based on the phone calls, when Heather's phone stopped working, when SM's phone stopped calling her, if there is good enough proof that that is their truck heading to PTL and back, etc. The problem will lie with proving which one, or if both had knowledge so that both can be convicted. If the state can't prove which one, that will be the sticking point that gets both off, IMO.

 

[jillycat]

(Would the time line fit for this?):
What IF - SM met Heather (she picked him up oh say.....at a Kangaroo gas station on 10th) - and she was killed BEFORE anyone got to PTL.....that SM drove Heathers car to PTL and had TM pick him up there -- and the only thing they needed to get rid of at that point was the phone??

Have never thought it's plausible that Heather decided to drive to PTL to meet SM, called him frantically and repeatedly when she arrived, then was harmed or killed there right after her last call, with the M's bolting back toward their property less than 3 minutes later. I think something began at the condo. And Heather may not have ever been near PTL. Unless she was a deceased passenger, perhaps.

As I said previously, we know where vehicles and phones were some of the time and where SM was at one point. We have no idea where people were during all those times. Or later. Or earlier.

One day last summer I borrowed my friend's car. Looked down an hour later and saw her iPhone sitting in the cup holder. For all anyone knew, she was in her car traveling about town. But she was actually sitting in her home at her desk. Another day, I mistakenly left my phone in her car when she gave me a ride. On record, it seemed like I was on the other side of town. But I was sitting with a family member at a nursing home, while she and my phone traveled to several errands on the southeast side of town.

I don't think who, what, where and when that early morning is as simple as the scenario that's been presented. JMO

 

[TedMac]

I'm also having a hard time with the timeline as far as what the state contends happened. With all of the texts/phone calls...it's obvious that the Moorers initiated some contact for some reason. Then Heather goes to PTL. Here's where I have a problem. The state has what they believe is the Moorers truck heading to PTL, then returning a couple minutes later. Somewhere during that time HE's cell stops pinging. That would seem pretty telling. Except HOW in the world do you abduct or even kill someone within that short 4 minute period or whatever...and dispose of a body/cell/keys without their being a crime scene with evidence left behind. Or if they had abducted her....there is NO WAY ON EARTH that there wouldn't be at least SOME DNA of her's in that truck if they had killed her on the way back down leaving PTL. It just doesn't seem like enough time. Now...if the time line had included an hour or something i'd say thats enough time for someone that might be adept to take care of it and clean up evidence from the scene.

I DO believe they were somehow involved...but I don't see any way possible to a conviction within that timeline without SOME kind of DNA or crime scene. Anyone else have a problem with that short window?

Finally, anyone that studies suicides will tell you that almost ALL suicides aren't able to do it where they can't be found. They just don't care once they are gone. Heather's phone wasn't at PTL long enough for her to break it or throw it in the water and then go hide somewhere far enough or well enough that she'd still not be found today. I don't think even the defense would waste their time with that theory.

BBM Heather was killed December 18. The truck was processed by LE the following February. The M's would have had two months to clean, wash and sanitize the truck. DNA could easily have been removed during that time. She also could have wrapped in a tarp, trashcan, etc to contain any blood that may have been spilled.

 

[SStarr33]

BBM Heather was killed December 18. The truck was processed by LE the following February. The M's would have had two months to clean, wash and sanitize the truck. DNA could easily have been removed during that time. She also could have wrapped in a tarp, trashcan, etc to contain any blood that may have been spilled.

It really makes me sick they had so long to do clean up. I guess him being the last person to talk to her was not enough for probable cause to search?

 

[NFYIAMY]

She didn't go to meet SM at 1:30am. 1:30am is the first contact between the 2 of them, with him calling her cell phone from that payphone.

The timeline is that it was around 3:30am that HE left her apt to go meet someone at PTL. Phone call logs establish it was SM she was calling over and over as she approached PTL.

I believe he set her up. Whether he wanted to or not...he did and is as involved as his wife.

I need to go back and look at the timeline again. Wondering what the scenario could be if at some point after the call to her roommate - Heather was no longer in control of her phone....

 

[NFYIAMY]

BBM Heather was killed December 18. The truck was processed by LE the following February. The M's would have had two months to clean, wash and sanitize the truck. DNA could easily have been removed during that time. She also could have wrapped in a tarp, trashcan, etc to contain any blood that may have been spilled.

And I think it's things like that the Prosecution will need to present - clearly and very put together. NOT how things were presented at this last bond hearing. Both defense attorneys sounded well put together - and spoke very well as they presented their side. They sounded (for lack of a better word) professional - but when the prosecution spoke it sounded, well, more elementary? KWIM?

Did anyone else get that feel?

 

[NFYIAMY]

Have never thought it's plausible that Heather decided to drive to PTL to meet SM, called him frantically and repeatedly when she arrived, then was harmed or killed there right after her last call, with the M's bolting back toward their property less than 3 minutes later. I think something began at the condo. And Heather may not have ever been near PTL. Unless she was a deceased passenger, perhaps.

As I said previously, we know where vehicles and phones were some of the time and where SM was at one point. We have no idea where people were during all those times. Or later. Or earlier.

One day last summer I borrowed my friend's car. Looked down an hour later and saw her iPhone sitting in the cup holder. For all anyone knew, she was in her car traveling about town. But she was actually sitting in her home at her desk. Another day, I mistakenly left my phone in her car when she gave me a ride. On record, it seemed like I was on the other side of town. But I was sitting with a family member at a nursing home, while she and my phone traveled to several errands on the southeast side of town.

I don't think who, what, where and when that early morning is as simple as the scenario that's been presented. JMO

I agree. The truck coming and going was simply to pick up the person who was dumping Heathers car at PTL.

 

[bestill]

And I think it's things like that the Prosecution will need to present - clearly and very put together. NOT how things were presented at this last bond hearing. Both defense attorneys sounded well put together - and spoke very well as they presented their side. They sounded (for lack of a better word) professional - but when the prosecution spoke it sounded, well, more elementary? KWIM?

Did anyone else get that feel?

I thought Sidney's attorney was more eloquent and defended his client best. I thought TM's was a bit scattered and he really didn't defend his client, he poked holes in the states case. JMO

 

[NFYIAMY]

I thought Sidney's attorney was more eloquent and defended his client best. I thought TM's was a bit scattered and he really didn't defend his client, he poked holes in the states case. JMO

But both of them 'sounded' so much better than the state IMO. After sitting on juries in the past - that can make a big difference. It as almost like it was an new assistant DA presenting the case instead of someone with experience? Gosh - having a hard time putting it into words!

 

[jillycat]

I agree. The truck coming and going was simply to pick up the person who was dumping Heathers car at PTL.

This has been my sense of the PTL factor since the beginning.

 

[bestill]

But both of them 'sounded' so much better than the state IMO. After sitting on juries in the past - that can make a big difference. It as almost like it was an new assistant DA presenting the case instead of someone with experience? Gosh - having a hard time putting it into words!

Do you think if the State had not been interrupted over and over by the judge she would have been better? I really think that is what got her off of her game, of course I've never heard her in the court room personally.

 

[Madeleine74]

And I think it's things like that the Prosecution will need to present - clearly and very put together. NOT how things were presented at this last bond hearing. Both defense attorneys sounded well put together - and spoke very well as they presented their side. They sounded (for lack of a better word) professional - but when the prosecution spoke it sounded, well, more elementary? KWIM?

Did anyone else get that feel?

I don't know why anyone would expect a bond hearing to be anything like a trial, as they are not the same thing in the least. That the judge allowed the defense to present a partial case, in essence, but did not afford the state the same consideration was wrong, and especially so since the judge was only interested in assessing danger to community and/or flight risk. The judge had walked into that courtroom with his mind already made up and he wasted a lot of time telling personal stories.

 

[OkieGranny]

Do you think if the State had not been interrupted over and over by the judge she would have been better? I really think that is what got her off of her game, of course I've never heard her in the court room personally.

I thought she started off strong. And then the interruptions began.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

The fact that LE offered both of the M's deals to flip on one another speaks volumes to the lack of direct evidence IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Sorry for any typos!

 

[SStarr33]

I wonder if TM dropped of SM at Heather's apt and it started there