Mr. Clean v. The State and The Tabloids

[BlueCrab]

I think Toth is suggesting that the perp could be a serious paranoid with a grudge against one of the Ramseys for some imagined slight. I've read about people like that, and they don't always fix immediately on a new enemy. But I don't think they are usually satisfied with the vengence they've gained until their enemy is dead. John and Patsy are very much alive.

I'm uncomfortable taking up for Toth, but on this issue he could be close to right.

The violent crime scene did show evidence of paranoia by the killer, and the murder could be looked at as an extreme act of revenge against a privileged and beautiful young white female who had a high profile in the community and represented what the killer hated and therefore could serve as an example.

Looking at the evidence in the ugliest possible light:

JonBenet was viciously strangled; she was savagely bashed in the head; she was crudely sexually molested; she was stungunned as a means of torture; and her body had been grotesquely posed when John found her the first time (before the 911 call). The ransom note really WAS from the representative of a small foreign faction who had an urgent (in his or her mind) message to convey to the community; the red mark on her palm was not a heart but was a "V" for victory; and there was a tiny "A" written on the V on the palm meaning "Asian".

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Toth]

Right, Maxi. We all know a nutcase like the 'sidewalk cracks' would be well known to the police and mental health workers, its not something like that but it might well be something just as utterly absurd to a rational mind.
>John and Patsy are very much alive.
Precisely!!
Just as JonBenet was alive when she experienced the stun gun and alive when she experienced certain other things, so too are John and Patsy alive to experience the darkest hours of the night when they lie awake and their thoughts turn to the renewed pain.

 

[K777angel]

Mike Bynum was no fool. Fortunately for the course of justice.
He hired the lawyers who were able to derail the railroad train despite the efforts of the Ramseys.

Toth - WHY did John Ramsey even CALL Mike Bynum the 26th in the first place?? Why in the hell would you be thinking to "call a lawyer" when you have just found your daughter DEAD and you are so distraught you can't walk straight and can't even talk to the police??
Mike Bynum was called FIRST. He didn't have ESP and "know" that John and Patsy Ramsey needed a lawyer.

Get real.

 

[Toth]

Perhaps John Ramsey simply called a friend who happened to be a lawyer, I don't know.

 

[Jayelles]

Toth - WHY did John Ramsey even CALL Mike Bynum the 26th in the first place?? Why in the hell would you be thinking to "call a lawyer" when you have just found your daughter DEAD and you are so distraught you can't walk straight and can't even talk to the police??
Mike Bynum was called FIRST. He didn't have ESP and "know" that John and Patsy Ramsey needed a lawyer.

Get real.

Well, I think in order to answer that, it has to be established to what extent Bynum was a friend and what extent he was a lawyer. Was he called to offer personal comfort or legal advice? I got the impression he called Mike Bynum about the ransom money. I don't know what John Fernie did for a living, but I doubt Fleet White would be the best person to advise him about that.

 

[Maxi]

Did John himself call Bynum? I somehow thought someone else called him. I have the Bynum tv interview on tape somewhere, but does anyone know offhand who got in touch with him?

Re a paranoid perp -- I keep wondering about someone with borderline personality disorder. I'm hearkening back again to my family's experience with someone who was just sane enough to keep up the front most of the time. Friends knew she had odd relationship patterns, but would never have imagined she was capable of violence. I was warned by my shrink that she was, tho. I wonder if there was a similar someone in Patsy and JonBenet's life.

 

[Nehemiah]

Re a paranoid perp -- I keep wondering about someone with borderline personality disorder. I'm hearkening back again to my family's experience with someone who was just sane enough to keep up the front most of the time. Friends knew she had odd relationship patterns, but would never have imagined she was capable of violence. I was warned by my shrink that she was, tho. I wonder if there was a similar someone in Patsy and JonBenet's life.

Maxi, I've "heard" you speak of this situation before. Can you give any more details about her behavior?

 

[Toth]

I know Bynum is supposed to have received a call but I have no idea from whom, perhaps Trip DeMuth who had been busy cajoling the BPD to do a decent job of gathering forensic evidence.

 

[BlueCrab]

I don't know what John Fernie did for a living, but I doubt Fleet White would be the best person to advise him about that.

John Fernie was a wealthy developer.

JMO

 

[Britt]

Mike Bynum was called FIRST.

Yep. And FWIW I've seen it reported by ones who claim to know that not only was he called first, he was called early... "early" being sometime before the 911 call in the early morning hours of the 26th. Now, where are those phone records again?

 

[Nehemiah]

Yep. And FWIW I've seen it reported by ones who claim to know that not only was he called first, he was called early... "early" being sometime before the 911 call in the early morning hours of the 26th. Now, where are those phone records again?

I have always said and will say again, that I believe the phone records are the key to solving the whole enchilada.

 

[Toth]

Yeah, its just all those dozens of people at the phone company who conspired to erase all those records and all those back up tapes and all those billing records.
Not one of those people wanted the million dollar tabloid reward!

 

[Nehemiah]

Yeah, its just all those dozens of people at the phone company who conspired to erase all those records and all those back up tapes and all those billing records.
Not one of those people wanted the million dollar tabloid reward!

I admit that I find that almost impossible. But what reasoning do you have, Toth, for the empty phone records?

 

[BlueCrab]

I also believe John Ramsey called Bynum very early in the morning of the 26th, before the 911 call was made. My guess is about 4:00 A.M. That call and other calls made early that morning is why, IMO, the phone records disappeared. One of the calls that morning went to someone in Governor Romer's office and THAT'S where the authority came to expunge the phone records without a trace. The coverup was likely in place, including defense attorneys, even before the 911 call was made at 5:52 A.M.

JMO

 

[Toth]

They misplaced the cell phone, so no calls were made on it and its battery probably ran down. No records are 'missing', its simply no calls were made on it.

What's the matter? None of you ever lived in a house where the cell phone winds up under a couch cushion or in a different purse or totebag or something.

 

[Shylock]

What's the matter? None of you ever lived in a house where the cell phone winds up under a couch cushion or in a different purse or totebag or something.

Not for an entire MONTH, Toth.
And I find it really bizarre that you consider such a thing to be normal. When people lose cell phones, like credit cards, they report them missing right away or find them used for thousands of dollars in bogus transactions (ala over-seas calls).

 

[BlueCrab]

Not for an entire MONTH, Toth.
And I find it really bizarre that you consider such a thing to be normal. When people lose cell phones, like credit cards, they report them missing right away or find them used for thousands of dollars in bogus transactions (ala over-seas calls).

Easiest thing to do when you lose your cell phone is to call your cell phone number. 9 times out of 10 someone will answer your phone.

There's nothing in the records that the Ramseys lost or misplaced a cell phone.

JMO

 

[popcorn]

The records likely weren't erased, there are protections in programs to prevent that, but the calls could have been transfered to another account. The trick is to find where they have been moved too.

 

[Toth]

I think they knew the phone was misplaced, not lost.

 

[Nehemiah]

Popcorn, that is very possible/likely. That would explain the missing records and them not necessarily being expunged.

Toth, perhaps they "misplaced" the cell phone after the 911 call was made? Misplaced indeed--and for a reason.