MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #11

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  • #41
LE will typically withhold some critical piece of information about a crime, to help them confirm whether a suspect or a person confessing to the crime actually knows more than the general public. What do you folks out there in WebSleuths Radio Land think is that missing piece of information in this case?

:waitasec:

Idk, but if LE/FBI/ATF are withholding information it is likely something more disturbing than just being burned alive, like raped/beaten and difficult to discuss with public (i.e. the sheriff said a "Christian community and all" or something to that effect). Regardless of why, I hope that LE/FBI found DNA, trace evidence, hair, evidence under her nails if nails were completely burned or other physical evidence and hopefully other evidence. The truth will come out, and if perp(s) never caught they'll end up going mad (think Vandersloot), I just hope perp(s) are eventually apprehended and no one is hurt in the meantime. Jmo/ What do you think, if anything LE is withholding?
 
  • #42
Idk, but if LE/FBI/ATF are withholding information it is likely something more disturbing than just being burned alive, like raped/beaten and difficult to discuss with public (i.e. the sheriff said a "Christian community and all" or something to that effect). Regardless of why, I hope that LE/FBI found DNA, trace evidence, hair, evidence under her nails if nails were completely burned or other physical evidence and hopefully other evidence. The truth will come out, and if perp(s) never caught they'll end up going mad (think Vandersloot), I just hope perp(s) are eventually apprehended and no one is hurt in the meantime. Jmo/ What do you think, if anything LE is withholding?

Well, obviously they are withholding what Jessica said to the first responders, be it a name or some other incriminating information. The CVFD fire chief already told us that much.

But I'm thinking of something less obvious, maybe something she was holding in her hand at the time of the arson, something like a charm or foreign coin or Mardi Gras doubloon, given to her by the murderer, which only he/she would know about. LE could work that information into one of their interviews and see if the suspect showed any reaction to observers, watching carefully through one of those one-way mirrors or CCTV, whenever it was mentioned. There are certain things that trained observers know to look for whenever someone is lying. The suspect has to appear open and willing to talk, otherwise they will seem suspicious. But the more someone talks, the more they're apt to slip up and mention something they thought "everybody" knew, but in reality, only they and the investigators know.

One other thing LE is holding pretty tightly is Gracie Gulledge's (Panola County Coroner) findings, which I'm sure included some "help" from the MBI, and maybe even the FBI lab. Not a peep from her about Jessica's autopsy results, other than "thermal injury" as COD. Perhaps Jessica and the murderer were intimate, something an autopsy would probably show, dunno. Recall the autopsy continued -after- her funeral, so either tissue samples were sent off somewhere, or her casket was empty.

All pure conjecture on my part. I'm sure the sheriff and DA have been COMPLETELY forthcoming with all relevant information in this case.
 
  • #43
Jmo and speculation (sort of) ... there are a few fire bugs on the fire dept ... there are certain "friends" and fd members linked together .... there are disturbing images on these social pages (from years past) ... i think atf/fbi know A LOT! i give NO credence to local LE Or FD ...i live in a small town and unfortunately know small town politics all to well ....
BUT don't let fbi/atf fool you either ... our LE is very chummy with atf and conservation ... just because they have big reputations doesn't mean they aren't from small towns and have the same mentality.
 
  • #44
Idk, but if LE/FBI/ATF are withholding information it is likely something more disturbing than just being burned alive, like raped/beaten and difficult to discuss with public (i.e. the sheriff said a "Christian community and all" or something to that effect). Regardless of why, I hope that LE/FBI found DNA, trace evidence, hair, evidence under her nails if nails were completely burned or other physical evidence and hopefully other evidence. The truth will come out, and if perp(s) never caught they'll end up going mad (think Vandersloot), I just hope perp(s) are eventually apprehended and no one is hurt in the meantime. Jmo/ What do you think, if anything LE is withholding?

One other thought. I think it was Steve P who mentioned during an earlier discussion about whether LE could "tap" a cell phone, that he suggest I run an internet search on "STINGERS", which I did. They're apparently devices that simulate a cell tower, and as such, can capture nearby cell phone transmissions -- not just meta data like the NSA, but actual conversations. They have been used by LE quite a bit in recent years, but have also raised serious 4th Amendment concerns, since they are typically used without any warrant -- essentially a wireless wire tap. The sole manufacturer requires everyone purchasing their devices to sign a nondisclosure agreement, so nobody will even admit to owning one.

What if, and I'm only saying what if, some of Jessica's final conversations were actually captured on such a device, being used at the time of her murder by police or other agencies to monitor illegal drug activity in the vicinity? Would they risk that information becoming public, and in such a high publicity case, and risk the issue of the legality of its use being raised -- possibly taking away what is probably a major tool for LE today, one without all the "complications" of probably cause, judicial oversight, warrants, etc. Would LE bend over backwards to find some other means of identifying the murderer, other than exposing a somewhat shady extralegal activity? Maybe only as a last resort, or not even then?

JMO
 
  • #45
Jmo/ What do you think, if anything LE is withholding?

In my opinion they're with holding ALL critical info from the public due to a possible grand jury gathering in the future ..... the grand jury will hear all critical info .... we will only find that information at trial IF there ever is a trial.
 
  • #46
Its possible that the FEDS know, but are not sharing every detail with the LOCAL PD, because they, too, are being investigated. Lots of funny business, it seems, with the local PD. JMO
 
  • #47
  • #48
<snip>

What if, and I'm only saying what if, some of Jessica's final conversations were actually captured on such a device [STINGER], being used at the time of her murder by police or other agencies to monitor illegal drug activity in the vicinity? Would they risk that information becoming public, and in such a high publicity case, and risk the issue of the legality of its use being raised -- possibly taking away what is probably a major tool for LE today, one without all the "complications" of probably cause, judicial oversight, warrants, etc. Would LE bend over backwards to find some other means of identifying the murderer, other than exposing a somewhat shady extralegal activity? Maybe only as a last resort, or not even then?

JMO

Read all about it:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...lance-aircraft-over-us-cities.html?ESRC=eb.nl

"The FBI does not generally obtain warrants to record video from its planes of people moving outside in the open, but it also said that under a new policy it has recently begun obtaining court orders to use cell-site simulators [STINGERS]. The Obama administration had until recently been directing local authorities through secret agreements not to reveal their own use of the devices, even encouraging prosecutors to drop cases rather than disclose the technology's use in open court."

Emphasis added by me.
How recently? AFTER Jessica's murder?
Just a new FBI policy, or for all LE, federal-state-local?

Hmmm. Hmmm.
:moo:
 
  • #49
Read all about it:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...lance-aircraft-over-us-cities.html?ESRC=eb.nl

"The FBI does not generally obtain warrants to record video from its planes of people moving outside in the open, but it also said that under a new policy it has recently begun obtaining court orders to use cell-site simulators [STINGERS]. The Obama administration had until recently been directing local authorities through secret agreements not to reveal their own use of the devices, even encouraging prosecutors to drop cases rather than disclose the technology's use in open court."

Emphasis added by me.
How recently? AFTER Jessica's murder?
Just a new FBI policy, or for all LE, federal-state-local?

Hmmm. Hmmm.
:moo:


Stingray System information I found when following the Jessica Ridgeway case in CO.;
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/cellphone-data-spying-nsa-police/3902809/

<snip> "• At least 25 police departments own a Stingray, a suitcase-size device that costs as much as $400,000 and acts as a fake cell tower. The system, typically installed in a vehicle so it can be moved into any neighborhood, tricks all nearby phones into connecting to it and feeding data to police. In some states, the devices are available to any local police department via state surveillance units. The federal government funds most of the purchases, via anti-terror grants."

Cell tower dumps are widely known and more common;

<snip>In October 2012, in Colorado, a 10-year-old girl vanished while she walked to school. Volunteers scoured Westminster looking for Jessica Ridgeway.

Local police took a clandestine tack. They got a court order for data about every cellphone that connected to five providers' towers on the girl's route. Later, they asked for 15 more cellphone site data dumps.

Colorado authorities won't divulge how many people's data they obtained, but testimony in other cases indicates it was at least several thousand people's phones.

The court orders in the Colorado case show police got "cellular telephone numbers, including the date, time and duration of any calls," as well as numbers and location data for all phones that connected to the towers searched, whether calls were being made or not. Police and court records obtained by USA TODAY about cases across the country show that's standard for a tower dump."

I remember the court documents with the affidavits for the tower info but those documents are no longer online. The first warrants for each provider did not include identifying information for each cell number. When they had matches to the 3 different crime scenes involved, showing a ping on the towers during the time frame in question, they filed separate affidavits for the identifying information for those numbers. Austin Sigg had pinged at 2 of those areas at the correct time.

MOO
 
  • #50
  • #51
I live in general area and have been following this myself. I respect you and your posts but I don't believe this is the cause of her death and from chatter around here I don't think there is many that do.
JMO
True, true.

No arrests, 179 days and counting.
 
  • #52
True, true.

No arrests, 179 days and counting.

Here's another purported "female arson suicide" -- this one in Iowa, just one state up and over from Kansas. Happened only a week ago, so forensics still in-work:
http://www.thonline.com/news/tri-state/article_08caf154-0884-11e5-82c6-6f04a44bd05b.html?mode=story

"...Sheriff’s department investigators reported Thursday that they did not suspect foul play in the death. An obituary for McPoland published by TH Media said she passed away 'after a lifelong battle with bipolar disorder'..."


Scene.jpg

Scammon, KS to Dubuque, IA -- 534 miles.

I think we're going to need some more billboards.
 
  • #53
I suppose so many of the arson fire suicides seem to happen in or by the person's vehicle as it i) is a means of securing privacy and thus finality, and ii) said privacy protects loved ones and homes from the flames.
 
  • #54
WARNING VIOLENT CONTENT: WATCH AT VIEWER'S DISCRETION


Published on Jun 4, 2015

[video]https://youtu.be/_lOPaSJnvP8[/video]

A man rushed inside his car and set it and himself alight at a gas station in the city of Austin, Texas. But the alleged suicide attempt was unsuccessful – he was saved by two police officers, though he received injuries. READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/x9u4n0


In the video, you can hear the man's screams of pain from the fire. There is absolutely no way 19yo Jessica committed suicide by fire. JMO
 
  • #55
Warning may not be suitable for all audiences. Scroll and roll. It's graphic.

Which begs the question : Why wasn't Jessica just shot? It's easier and quicker. Pow-Pow.

But they didn't shoot. They hit her on the head, either from back to front or vice versa, on the top of the right side of her head. Someone mentioned possibly w/ the butt of a gun. What about a hammer? Maybe she was surprised from behind.

I pray she was knocked out...maybe given a date rape drug. They doused gas on her from head to her ankles. She was wearing her panties but not her slippers her mother described her as wearing out of the home that evening or they would have melted to her feet. She wore pj bottoms, a Tshirt w/ jacket and slippers when she departed from home. What type material was her jacket? Nylon? Highly flammable? Where are her shoes?

The sociopath wanted Jessica to suffer over some pre-conceived problem; real or not; past, present or near future. They wanted her to suffer unimaginable pain. Believe me an agonizing Jessica screamed due to the intensity of the radiant heat. Her tongue and throat swollen from the gas. Esophagus became swollen and parched and the flash fire engulfed her fuel soaked clothing into hot flames. Rubber tires burn at 170* and the Rios did. Rubber fumes are black and highly toxic. If Jessica was exposed to 140 - 170 F degree heat from the burns, it fried her skin, hence, some was black, crispy.

Do ppl kill for sympathy or pity? For attention? We've seen some adorable and beautiful photos of Jessica. She's a little doll. It would be easy for others to hate /strike that/ be jealous of Jessica. Was she Daddy's little girl? I pray it's so.

She and her mom did not have a stable, healthy, happy relationship. Jess moved out of her mom's home and in w/ BR & TF. She was close to BCs daughter, Annabelle. She wrote letter to Kelsey Arendale. Prob no Internet at Leah's where she stayed 6 weeks. Wrote letters. When she came home early at LDs behest: She was completely changed. She kept her room clean. She looked for a job.


JMHO and all that jazz

Because the killer/s didn't have a gun, but she/they had access to gas in cans that could have been filled up earlier in the evening at the station where we saw and heard from people related to someone suggesting that white policemen should have their children raped and burned in front of them.

Just my opinion. Still. I believe it was a female killer, but I can't decide between the various offerings.
 
  • #56
WARNING VIOLENT CONTENT: WATCH AT VIEWER'S DISCRETION


Published on Jun 4, 2015

[video]https://youtu.be/_lOPaSJnvP8[/video]

A man rushed inside his car and set it and himself alight at a gas station in the city of Austin, Texas. But the alleged suicide attempt was unsuccessful &#8211; he was saved by two police officers, though he received injuries. READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/x9u4n0


In the video, you can hear the man's screams of pain from the fire. There is absolutely no way 19yo Jessica committed suicide by fire. JMO

He sure changed his mind in a hurry. Why was he screaming and flailing - he wasn't on fire, his shirt didn't look like it was burned at all.

I did hear the policeman in pain :(
 
  • #57
WARNING VIOLENT CONTENT: WATCH AT VIEWER'S DISCRETION
Published on Jun 4, 2015 [video]https://youtu.be/_lOPaSJnvP8[/video]A man rushed inside his car and set it and himself alight at a gas station in the city of Austin, Texas. But the alleged suicide attempt was unsuccessful READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/x9u4n0... There is absolutely no way 19yo Jessica committed suicide by fire. JMO
snipped by me for space, bbm I agree.

Here are a few fairly recent cases of murder by car immolation/fire (some cases from previous thread): There is actually a case where a woman intentionally lit pump/person pumping gas on fire. http://abc7.com/news/video-woman-lights-pump-on-fire-at-gas-station/688810/ (2015) (CA).

I noticed cases seem to happen in midwest/west coast (wonder if there's organized drug running connection w/method used), perps dangerous offenders (rape, etc). ie How far is AL where Eric Cates murdered, was perp caught/motive? It would be interesting to see how close some of these cases (location) are to Courtland, MS and if same organized drug trafficking groups/criminal enterprises in same areas/if individuals tied to illegal drugs somehow. See below. Jmo/

http://www.whas11.com/story/news/cr...for-information-on-relatives-murder/27140989/ (2015) (KY)
http://fox2now.com/2015/02/15/police-body-of-shooting-victim-found-in-burning-car/ (2015) (MO)
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/03/family_seeks_answers_after_man.html (2015) (AL)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ar-fire-death-Mother-charged-with-murder.html (2015 UK)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...on-riots-shot-set-fire-cops-article-1.2025417 (11/14 case MO)
http://fox2now.com/2014/09/08/man-found-shot-inside-burning-car-dies/ (9/2014 case) (MO)
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ed18b5d4-de9a-5add-85be-545f3ddcbd06.html (2014) (MO same case 9/14)
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/06/justice/philadelphia-abduction-suspect/ (11/2014 PA)
http://www.abc3340.com/story/24852203/toddlers-remains-found-in-burnt-out-car (2014 AL)
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20130303/ARTICLES/130309913 (2013 NC)
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/murder-arrests-in-burning-car-death/nSPBH/ (2012 GA)
http://www.times-standard.com/gener...tball-player-charged-in-san-diego-murder-case (2012 CA)
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Suspects-Named-in-Car-Fire-Double-Murder-136046598.html (2011 TX)
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...wer-haight-car-fire-death/Content?oid=2168500 (2011 CA)
http://www.myfoxla.com/story/24642717/2014/02/05/third-suspect-arrested-in-2006-car-fire-murder (2006 AZ)
http://www.kfvs12.com/story/28772593/alabama-cold-case-murder-suspect-arrested-in-jackson (2012 AL case, but suspect apprehended in 2015).
 
  • #58
Jessica Chambers case: Six months later

USA TODAY NETWORKTherese Apel, The Clarion-Ledger5:14 p.m. EDT June 5, 2015
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/n...a-chambers-case-six-months-old-cold/28559733/


<snipped>

"It's so hard, I pray every day, all day," said her father, Ben Chambers. "I've got to keep my sanity, I try to not think about it or I'll go crazy. How she died, it just tortures me."
Jessica Chambers was burned alive on December 6, 2014, on Herron Road in Courtland. Investigators have mapped her every step that day, and with the exception of one hour before her death, they know the story. But it's that hour that matters
<snipped>

My Opinion Only:
I am not alone in my theory. Many posters have had similar theories to mine. I came to my opinion very early on. Bessie has a 'What Happened to Jessica Thread' & my opinion has not changed.

In my humble opinion the perps (2 women & at least one man planned the brutal burning of JC)are psychopaths who can lie because they can rationize anything. The part I am most puzzled by is the elaborate cover up by '*****' (it is against TOS rules for me to name names.) I say 'cover up'*because it Is contrary to logic & the theory of 'probability' ....that skilled investigators have not been able to break the will of at least one of the women especially w/ young children to care for. But,I forget these people are psychopaths and have a sick twisted set of values. I have mused long enough :sigh:about my theory.

* coverup- there are things that make me come to that conclusion. I realize that many people will NOT agree and that is OK. TOS rules mean I cannot elaborate on my suspicions (and that's what they are~I have no proof)
:cow:

 
  • #59
Thank you, MizStery. I will search for the thread mentioned in your post.

Also, from the article found at the link you provided:


Champion said in a small town like Courtland, everyone knows each other. If only that narrowed down the suspect list.

"I'm still a firm believer that it's somebody she knows," he said. "And it's probably just one person or at the most two, but of course that's just pure speculation."


So, there was a life insurance policy on Jessica:

"...Ben Chambers said. It comes in some forms that are harder to process on another level. Because of various technicalities, his county life insurance policy with Met Life is holding out on the meager $10,000 life insurance policy he had for his family. It cost $10,000 to bury Jessica, he said, and after his son, Allen, was killed in a car accident in 2012, that's why he kept the policy."


I donated to the JC 🤬🤬🤬 acct 2 days after hearing the story but not really knowing details. As I recall, when the acct was closed and distributed, each parent received appx $12,000. Therefore, each had around $7000 a piece left after funeral expenses if they split the cost of the funeral. LD said publically that she wanted to use the money to pay JCs medical bills; however, we don't know that those bills were actually paid or by whom.
 
  • #60
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