MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #7

[flatfootjoe]

There was a case I heard where young man was down last with an Exceller and set on fire. It was burned over 98% of his body. He was not tied to a gate or tree. And he didn't set anyone else on fire.

As are matter-of-fact they didn't discover who did this for many years; the perp had no burns. The victim survived initially. But when he was dying years later he finally revealed the name of the person who burned him. For him just came very late.

I think your autocorrect is wreaking havoc. You say a man was doused with an accelerant and burned over 98% of his body, yet he survived? That's incredible. I'd like to read about it.

 

[machiado]

I missed it - and I'm glad I missed it because there is no justification for racism and ignorance IMO.

Completely off topic~ I would like to take a moment to thank our mod(s?). Bessie is obviously on her toes today. I have been slammed with work so I have not had a chance to keep up and post like I have been recently. I go onto WS about 30 minutes ago to check in with you guys and see what I have missed (always hoping to log on and see there has been a resolution to this case). As I made my way to the end of the thread, I was shocked to see the last post. So shocked, in fact, I literally had to step away from my laptop, step outside in the 10 degree cold, and take a deep breath. Upon returning to the computer and refreshing the page, I saw that said post was already removed. I can't be certain if it was removed by the poster or by Bessie, so to whomever took the initiative to do so, thank you. The sole reason I chose to join WS is because gossip, racism, and ignorance is against TOS. Glad to see that remains the same.

 

[MSCJgrad]

Great post. IMO, the only 'mountain' here, so to speak, is the mountain of evidence that was either mishandled, ignored, tainted, or otherwise ruined by LE. I recall waaaaaay back a previous thread, there was quite the discussion as to whether or not this was A) done intentionally by LE as a coverup, B) an unfortunately lengthy series of unintentional mistakes on the behalf of LE due to lack of experience, training, etc., or C) A joke. The complete disregard for crime scene investigation protocol and chain of evidence discretion alone are enough for any trained LEO to literally remove every officer involved until mandated continued education courses and interactive seminars have been completed. IIRC, it was said that LE's lack of professionalism and protocol that evening reflected either extreme corruption or extreme stupidity.

I agree Ms Pragmatic. I was concerned from the get go at the brevity of the forensic examination at the crime scene. Obviously, at this point, ATF, MBI & FBI were not involved so the examination would have been carried out by local resources. I have seen cases both in my area and elsewhere where a crime scene is taped off and secured for more than a day and quite often longer. In addition, IMO the burned out vehicle should have been covered by a tarp and driven directly to the forensic lab for examination. I couldn't believe that the tow truck driver left the vehicle (almost on display) while he went into the gas bar for whatever. After all, this vehicle is a critical piece of evidence. I remember following the Audrey Gleave murder case. They took that poor soul's car from her garage and towed it away in a covered trailer just in case it would provide any evidence. I hope I'm not making a mountain out of a mole hill but I fear that there were flaws in the infancy of this investigation.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Yesterday I watched a video in which they show the generator so yes, he does have a generator at home.

My suspicious mind says owning a generator is a good cover for someone buying gasoline. He needs it if it works. He can also buy more from another station if need be to replace what could have been borrowed for this event.

Just my opinion from someone with too much time on their hands and nothing more.

 

[MSCJgrad]

While I think we can all logically find fault with local LE regarding "chain of custody" conduct, you can't say the same of a volunteer fire company. One is a county compensated employee with (one would assume) adequate education and training to perform the job they hold, the other, simply volunteers trying to get a job done. The vfc did everything they could to assist Jessica and extinguish the blaze. That's what they were taught to do.

I'd prefer to be educated, rather than walk through life ignorant to folly. We share that thought as well.

Point taken about the professionalism of the fire dept. According to the MSM facts (I know....), they did do exactly what they were supposed to do. Hat's off to them, sincerely.

 

[MSCJgrad]

The only way that I could see a person not regaining consciousness after being set on fire would be if they had blunt force trauma to the head, to the extent that they were in a coma, or if they were sedated to the point of no longer having control of their body. I have no theory here... just curious.

Do you see any possible way that you could be set on fire and not regain consciousness? Assuming you weren't already completely gassed by CO? Why would you regain consciousness afterwards?

 

[MSCJgrad]

I thought I said symbolism like 20 posts ago... :thinking:

Indeed you did... it seems as though there are quite a few things being dug up and redressed this evening here on WS. Could be some users reading threads from the bottom up? IIRC, I took your symbolism and raised it a 'gang protocol' for good measure (wishing there was a poker chip emoji) , including some info on how VL's have been known to set people on fire... MOO...

 

[MSCJgrad]

Oh honey, it was rife...

I missed it - and I'm glad I missed it because there is no justification for racism and ignorance IMO.

 

[flatfootjoe]

I can't imagine wanting to live after that percentage of burn. Or much, much less.

Human beings are very funny animals, many of us would prefer a life with a very diminished capacity as opposed to the alternative. The will to survive is incredible though.

IIRC from reading that's around a 2-6% chance of survival, very likely one involving many full thickness burns. Nothing short of miraculous, anyone other than a very young man would have a very slim chance of surviving, especially with any longevity.

A study on burn mortality, pretty wordy though.

http://www.woundsresearch.com/files/wounds/pdfs/Tahir_aug.pdf

 

[southernyankee]

I am positive there must be a way for someone to be restrained without the use of physical, tangible restraint *objects*. Say you have two or more people versus one - the one could easily be physically held down or overpowered by simply the strength of one or two other people. As Jessica was a fairly petite female, the strength of one or two average-sized male adults in average health would be more than a match for her.

The issue comes with the other parties NOT being burnt or injured - it's a bit trickier.

I'm going to guess that it's entirely possible two people held her down, perhaps hitting her (in the head, or elsewhere) to render her weakened or hurt, poured the accelerant on her (say it was gasoline). One person could splash the interior of the car with gasoline as well.

If she was being held down (like, on reclined seats?) the accelerant could have also splashed onto her face (this might be where the idea of "oh she swallowed accelerant" came in, when really, trace amounts may have gotten into her mouth or nose this way). While still incapacitated from being beaten + after being doused with accelerant, the perps leave her in the car and, from a short but safe distance, throw a match into the car.

That scenario is horrific but is one of my best guesses at this point.

 

[flatfootjoe]

Indeed you did... it seems as though there are quite a few things being dug up and redressed this evening here on WS. Could be some users reading threads from the bottom up? IIRC, I took your symbolism and raised it a 'gang protocol' for good measure (wishing there was a poker chip emoji) , including some info on how VL's have been known to set people on fire... MOO...

BBM that sentence had me giggling like a drooling fool. Thanks! :laugh:

 

[machiado]

Wow, I missed a lot of posting activity in the last few hours.

I'm beginning to believe that the "usual suspects" are not the ones who did this. LE have interviewed a hundred or so people, I believe. They may well have interviewed the perp, but the ones we know of from MSM interviews are not the ones, who did it IMO (although they may know who did).

 

[flatfootjoe]

I am positive there must be a way for someone to be restrained without the use of physical, tangible restraint *objects*. Say you have two or more people versus one - the one could easily be physically held down or overpowered by simply the strength of one or two other people. As Jessica was a fairly petite female, the strength of one or two average-sized male adults in average health would be more than a match for her.

The issue comes with the other parties NOT being burnt or injured - it's a bit trickier.

I'm going to guess that it's entirely possible two people held her down, perhaps hitting her (in the head, or elsewhere) to render her weakened or hurt, poured the accelerant on her (say it was gasoline). One person could splash the interior of the car with gasoline as well.

If she was being held down (like, on reclined seats?) the accelerant could have also splashed onto her face (this might be where the idea of "oh she swallowed accelerant" came in, when really, trace amounts may have gotten into her mouth or nose this way). While still incapacitated from being beaten + after being doused with accelerant, the perps leave her in the car and, from a short but safe distance, throw a match into the car.

That scenario is horrific but is one of my best guesses at this point.

I am not disagreeing with you here. Once she regains consciousness, how do you prevent her, from A) Exiting the vehicle. B) Running maniacally like instinct will have most people do?

How long do you think she could stay in the car while it's ablaze? At very least we know she wasn't found in the car, so we have to assume she exited it under her own power.

How would you explain what would IMO appear to be an evenly distributed body burn while some surfaces would have been oxygen deprived?

I'm not arguing, I want your opinion.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Today I watched the poor mother's interview as she attempted to set the record straight. What a tough life she's had.

I was hoping for some good news today. Looks like we'll have to keep waiting.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Human beings are very funny animals, many of us would prefer a life with a very diminished capacity as opposed to the alternative. The will to survive is incredible though.

IIRC from reading that's around a 2-6% chance of survival, very likely one involving many full thickness burns. Nothing short of miraculous, anyone other than a very young man would have a very slim chance of surviving, especially with any longevity.

A study on burn mortality, pretty wordy though.

http://www.woundsresearch.com/files/wounds/pdfs/Tahir_aug.pdf

I agree with you about living with diminished capacity, but I hadn't even gotten that far. I immediately focused on the pain, knowing what debridement entails and what it would be like over that amount of surface burn

 

[FelicityLemon]

I am positive there must be a way for someone to be restrained without the use of physical, tangible restraint *objects*. Say you have two or more people versus one - the one could easily be physically held down or overpowered by simply the strength of one or two other people. As Jessica was a fairly petite female, the strength of one or two average-sized male adults in average health would be more than a match for her.

The issue comes with the other parties NOT being burnt or injured - it's a bit trickier.

I'm going to guess that it's entirely possible two people held her down, perhaps hitting her (in the head, or elsewhere) to render her weakened or hurt, poured the accelerant on her (say it was gasoline). One person could splash the interior of the car with gasoline as well.

If she was being held down (like, on reclined seats?) the accelerant could have also splashed onto her face (this might be where the idea of "oh she swallowed accelerant" came in, when really, trace amounts may have gotten into her mouth or nose this way). While still incapacitated from being beaten + after being doused with accelerant, the perps leave her in the car and, from a short but safe distance, throw a match into the car.

That scenario is horrific but is one of my best guesses at this point.

Chemical restraint

 

[southernyankee]

I am not disagreeing with you here. Once she regains consciousness, how do you prevent her, from A) Exiting the vehicle. B) Running maniacally like instinct will have most people do?

How long do you think she could stay in the car while it's ablaze? At very least we know she wasn't found in the car, so we have to assume she exited it under her own power.

How would you explain what would IMO appear to be an evenly distributed body burn while some surfaces would have been oxygen deprived?

I'm not arguing, I want your opinion.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were arguing at all - these are really important questions! And I'm still thinking it through myself, but here goes...

I am operating under the assumption that she was either A) not meant or expected to regain consciousness (i.e., drugged or beaten + assumed that she'd simply burn up inside); B) never unconscious but beaten or drugged etc. enough that she was not meant or expected to be able to exit the car.

I don't think the perps expected she would ever be able to exit the vehicle on her own volition, and I really don't think they expected anyone else would have been the last to see her alive...suffice it to say they never expected her to run maniacally (if she indeed did).

Correct - we know she was not found in the car, so she wasn't necessarily trapped in there. This points back to the killers really not considering she'd exit, though! I do believe she left the car under her own power.

The evenly distributed body burn (if that is actually true) - if you've thoroughly doused someone or something with gasoline or a highly flammable liquid, the flame follows that source. I can't comment precisely on this as a definitive answer in Jessica's case, because I am speculating on the extent of the use of the accelerant (we do not know how much was used or where specifically). I suppose if the soles of her shoes had been muddy or dirty, that could have aided in resistance to flames, but I don't think that would be totally sufficient to prevent burns on her feet. My guess is that the soles themselves of her shoes were a better physical boundary than anything else, but that they would have eventually melted given enough time/exposure to heat.

I have cited a book previously that is a nonfiction account of a plane crash (Nine Minutes, Twenty Seconds) - and will relate that the jet fuel that had splashed on anyone + anything + caught fire was incredibly resistant to efforts at smothering or rolling the fire out. Particularly, passengers whose clothing got soaked + caught flame nearly all suffered unrecoverable burn injuries. :-(

That is just my off-the-cuff best guess response at this point. I hope it was helpful.

 

[flatfootjoe]

I agree with you about living with diminished capacity, but I hadn't even gotten that far. I immediately focused on the pain, knowing what debridement entails and what it would be like over that amount of surface burn

Thankfully, full thickness burns 3+ don't give pain or have very little pain attributed to them, and certainly with that degree of burn there would have to be plenty of them. I know it's really horrible to even imagine.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

With the increase to reward money, it tells me that LE doesn't have any conclusive trace evidence to tie a perp or perps to JC's death.

Unsettling to say the least! I just wonder if the perp(s) realize this, and know that they have a pretty good chance of avoiding arrest — if they can just keep quiet long enough?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[suspicious1]

My suspicious mind says owning a generator is a good cover for someone buying gasoline. He needs it if it works. He can also buy more from another station if need be to replace what could have been borrowed for this event.

Just my opinion from someone with too much time on their hands and nothing more.

Absolutely...I could care less about him owning a generator...it's a good cover for sure.

JMO