Found Deceased MT - Rebekah Barsotti 33, & dog (fnd deceased), Town Pump, Superior, Mineral Co, 20 Jul 2021 *Reward

[Kagie1]

Those are great questions. I haven't seen the phone video from July 20. AM has seen it. The video is still in LE custody. I think the video only captured Cerberus. The picture on NAMUS The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) of Rebekah and Cerberus is from July 20 and you can see the shirt that Rebekah was wearing along with ballcap and sunglasses. I don't believe she was wearing a bathing suit. I recall the Deputy that met us at the site said Rebekah was wearing flip flops. This came up when the Deputy tried to convince myself and AM the only way down to the area where Rebekah's personal items were found was to slide down this steep bank until reaching a level enough area to hike east the rest of the way. After I refused to go down that way he said there was the other way by driving down the rocky path to the east side of the climbing rock aka St. Johns Fishing Access (it was later suggested Rebekah walked down this way with Cerb based on steps recorded on her fitness app). I don't know if the shoes were recovered on the riverbank with her other personal items. The only video AM has from Rebekah's phone is the one from June that Rebekah shared with her (mom) previously. It was posted on the Find Rebekah Barsotti FB page. As far as the video from Town Pump, Rebekah's vehicle was visible but not Rebekah. Rebekah knew how to swim but she was not an excellent swimmer.

Ok, I had the understanding that the vid taken of Cerb at the beach and sent to AM was taken on July 20th presumably by Rebekah and this was the same vid LE had obviously because they now have her phone. This would have established a fairly solid Last Known Position (LKP). Not sure how I missed this... And the Town Pump video doesn't show Rebekah either??? Does it show anyone getting into or out of her car while at the Town Pump?

If the family is interested I'm considering getting a private search team together and scouting the Alberton Gorge before the spring thaw but I will need more details of the case than what I'm picking up here. As a private party I do not need the Mineral County Sheriff's request or permission to do so but as proper etiquette and politeness I will address my intent with him or one of his representatives before doing so. I can only imagine his department being supportive of such measures.

 

[Steve McQueen]

Ok, I had the understanding that the vid taken of Cerb at the beach and sent to AM was taken on July 20th presumably by Rebekah and this was the same vid LE had obviously because they now have her phone. This would have established a fairly solid Last Known Position (LKP). Not sure how I missed this... And the Town Pump video doesn't show Rebekah either??? Does it show anyone getting into or out of her car while at the Town Pump?

If the family is interested I'm considering getting a private search team together and scouting the Alberton Gorge before the spring thaw but I will need more details of the case than what I'm picking up here. As a private party I do not need the Mineral County Sheriff's request or permission to do so but as proper etiquette and politeness I will address my intent with him or one of his representatives before doing so.

Thank you for your offer to search! I assume you mean a water search which is great, but what we really need are land searches, I suppose land searches will have to wait until the snow melts in the spring.

 

[Kagie1]

Quite a bit actually. I hope you will view the video of AM's meeting with the Mineral County Commissioners or read the transcript of that meeting in previous posts (pages 21 and 27) kindly provided by @Bit of hope. Here is a small portion of AM's presentation:

"We believe that from the onset of Rebekah’s missing there has been a lack of due diligence. The area was not thoroughly assessed at mile marker 72. When we asked if anybody knew the number of trucks or the number of vehicles at mile marker 72, they did not. When we asked if they knew the number of vehicles at St. John’s access site, they did not have that recorded and St. John’s access has multiple overgrown bushes. If you’ve been down there during this summer many of the vehicles you can’t see until you’re on top of them because the bushes are so overgrown. Sheriff Toth informed the family that all items at the scene were compromised, with the exception of Rebekah’s phone. Nothing has been submitted for forensics. The Mineral County Sheriff’s Office is now in possession of Rebekah’s laptop. This has never been accessed. There was an incomplete search of Rebekah’s vehicle. Meant at the time of discovery at mile marker 72, the Mineral county deputies did not find a gun in the car and when I asked Missoula about her gun on July 23rd they said that it had not been reported. I said "then you have another problem on your hands". So when they went to go get Rebekah’s car, they found the gun in the pocket of the driver’s store. So that would lead me to believe there was not a thorough investigation of the vehicle.

The vehicle itself has never had forensics performed on it and when the statement about Rebekah’s missing was released about Rebekah missing, there was no context about her being married or had being in a domestic abuse situation. That was completely left out of anything that was released to the media or the public. The charges were not acknowledged by LE, but those charges were filed here, in Mineral county."

Regarding land searches (from the CC meeting transcript): "On 7/25 Sergeant Funk informed myself and my sister Laura Williams that there were no tracking dogs on land or surrounding areas. The only dogs used were for the water in the riverbank, but they failed to look on land."

Regarding the RP: LE has refused to release the recording of the 911 call placed by the RB. A FOIA request by LW for details about the call was denied.

I don't know if RB is in the river. However, regarding Cerberus you have unintentionally made a case for why it is highly unlikely he would end up 10 miles downstream from the alleged accident. From your post:

"These rocks create sieves in cracks and spaces between the rocks where people and other objects can get caught up."

"Because of the physiology of the body, it has a tendency to get hung up on things."

I don't think you can discount the domestic violence situation, mainly because of the timing and the threats made by DB (paraphrasing - I will drown both you and your dog). The other thing that bothers me is that Sheriff Toth said DB is not a suspect and never will be. So much for an open minded investigation.

I hope @laurawlms weighs in as she can probably more politely and more eloquently explain why many of us on this thread feel LE has dropped the ball and that further investigation (hopefully DCI or FBI) should be undertaken. MOO

Thanks SM for your reply... As for Cerb it's all a matter of chance getting through the gorges obstacles. Just a guess and it's just that a guess, but from my knowledge of the river and 30 plus years of SAR experience I'd say it'd be 50-50 chance for the conditions at the time they went missing. As I stated in other posts if someone or something drowned in or above the gorge during summer months and at the flow given last July this is exactly where I'd expect them to be found.

I'm not doubting what you're saying you believe to be true about the domestic violence situation but what I've gathered so far is hearsay. I read about the threats earlier but when it comes to searching I search first. Yes, I've been on searches where the poor outcome for the victim was found to be due to evil actions. Yet, even if the threats are true and the suspicions high, what can I do to make a difference? My pointing fingers and making accusations really won't solve anything as far as bringing closure and in some cases actually hinders it. I'm not LE so there's nothing I can do about criminal investigations in any venue since these parameters are out of my control. It's the families jurisdiction to make this fight. I may be able to give my support but they are the ones that need to decide where the battle lines lay. Maybe that means getting an attorney or going to the OIG to get the information or actions wanted but that's their call not mine. There appears to be bad medicine between LE and the family which is most unfortunate.

What I can contribute is my first hand knowledge of the area and my thoughts and ideas of how to get the best POD (probability of detection) for a specific search situation.

 

[Steve McQueen]

Thanks SM for your reply... As for Cerb it's all a matter of chance getting through the gorges obstacles. Just a guess and it's just that a guess, but from my knowledge of the river and 30 plus years of SAR experience I'd say it'd be 50-50 chance for the conditions at the time they went missing. As I stated in other posts if someone or something drowned in or above the gorge during summer months and at the flow given last July this is exactly where I'd expect them to be found.

I'm not doubting what you're saying you believe to be true about the domestic violence situation but what I've gathered so far is hearsay. I read about the threats earlier but when it comes to searching I search first. Yes, I've been on searches where the poor outcome for the victim was found to be due to evil actions. Yet, even if the threats are true and the suspicions high, what can I do to make a difference? My pointing fingers and making accusations really won't solve anything as far as bringing closure and in some cases actually hinders it. I'm not LE so there's nothing I can do about criminal investigations in any venue since these parameters are out of my control. It's the families jurisdiction to make this fight. I may be able to give my support but they are the ones that need to decide where the battle lines lay. Maybe that means getting an attorney or going to the OIG to get the information or actions wanted but that's their call not mine. There appears to be bad medicine between LE and the family which is most unfortunate.

What I can contribute is my first hand knowledge of the area and my thoughts and ideas of how to get the best POD (probability of detection) for a specific search situation.

Thanks for this! We welcome your search expertise. All I'm saying is please keep an open mind to the possibility that RB is not in the river. Make sure you are searching in the right place. I'd hate for you to waste your time. Maybe ask the family where they would like you to search. Just a thought. MOO

 

[lilithblue]

Thanks for this! We welcome your search expertise. All I'm saying is please keep an open mind to the possibility that RB is not in the river. Make sure you are searching in the right place. I'd hate for you to waste your time. Maybe ask the family where they would like you to search. Just a thought. MOO

I think she is in the river. I don't think it was accidental, but I think she's there or near it. Curious why you think she isn't? I mean, if you think the ex is responsible for the dog because he threatened it, why wouldn't he have also done the same thing to her?

 

[Steve McQueen]

I think she is in the river. I don't think it was accidental, but I think she's there or near it. Curious why you think she isn't? I mean, if you think the ex is responsible for the dog because he threatened it, why wouldn't he have also done the same thing to her?

If he harmed her, he could not risk LE finding her and the river is the first place they would look. I believe he killed Cerberus in front of her and dumped him in the river somewhere near where he was found. He could have then taken RB to a remote area to harm her and hide the evidence. MOO

 

[Kagie1]

Thank you for your offer to search! I assume you mean a water search which is great, but what we really need are land searches, I suppose land searches will have to wait until the snow melts in the spring.

Yes, a water and bank search. Any land searches would have to wait until after the snow melt. If there was a land search, where would you suggest it be done and where would the starting point be? I thought I read somewhere that someone wanted a 50 mile radius searched from where Rebekah's car was found. Well, let's consider that for a moment. The surface area of a circle is Pi x Radius Squared. Thus 3.14 x (50x50) or 3.14 x 2500 = 7850 square miles in this case.

To get a POD of 75-80% in a recovery search in flat fairly open terrain, a searcher spacing of about 50 feet would be needed and this would be absolute maximum. A mile at 5280 feet wide would require 105 searchers to make a single grid pass. This is a search not a hike so search time in this flat open terrain should take about two hours minimum walking slow and looking for clues, etc. This one mile = 210 man hours. Thus 210 man hours per mile x 7850 miles = 1,648,500 man hours. Now the terrain around where Rebekah's car was found is anything but flat except in the narrow river valley which significantly impedes search time. So in reality if such a request was made it's an impossible venture and the sheriff would be right to say we don't have the man hours. I would have to say the same thing. Thus back to my original question for anyone wishing to give an objective answer. Where should the land search start and how much area around that start point should be searched and why?

 

[Kagie1]

If he harmed her, he could not risk LE finding her and the river is the first place they would look. I believe he killed Cerberus in front of her and dumped him in the river somewhere near where he was found. He could have then taken RB to a remote area to harm her and hide the evidence. MOO

Ok, so let's suppose there's motive... Got it, an estranged ex seeking vengeance. Next is intent... Got it, It's been said he threatened her with lethal violence. Now there has to be opportunity (ability)... When was it? Where was it? These are the questions to be answered as to clues leading to evidence to be found.

 

[Kagie1]

Thanks for this! We welcome your search expertise. All I'm saying is please keep an open mind to the possibility that RB is not in the river. Make sure you are searching in the right place. I'd hate for you to waste your time. Maybe ask the family where they would like you to search. Just a thought. MOO

Well, that's the trick SM. How does one ever know they're searching in the right place? They don't until they find who or what it is they're looking for. Until then it's all about educated guesses...

 

[Steve McQueen]

Yes, a water and bank search. Any land searches would have to wait until after the snow melt. If there was a land search, where would you suggest it be done and where would the starting point be? I thought I read somewhere that someone wanted a 50 mile radius searched from where Rebekah's car was found. Well, let's consider that for a moment. The surface area of a circle is Pi x Radius Squared. Thus 3.14 x (50x50) or 3.14 x 2500 = 7850 square miles in this case.

To get a POD of 75-80% in a recovery search in flat fairly open terrain, a searcher spacing of about 50 feet would be needed and this would be absolute maximum. A mile at 5280 feet wide would require 105 searchers to make a single grid pass. This is a search not a hike so search time in this flat open terrain should take about two hours minimum walking slow and looking for clues, etc. This one mile = 210 man hours. Thus 210 man hours per mile x 7850 miles = 1,648,500 man hours. Now the terrain around where Rebekah's car was found is anything but flat except in the narrow river valley which significantly impedes search time. So in reality if such a request was made it's an impossible venture and the sheriff would be right to say we don't have the man hours. I would have to say the same thing. Thus back to my original question for anyone wishing to give an objective answer. Where should the land search start and how much area around that start point should be searched and why?

Yes, I agree the search you describe would be impossible. What is needed are targeted land searches based on educated guesses. I have suggested two such areas in my previous posts. Here are my thoughts reposted:

1.) "This is very interesting. Since your post, I have been examining the area that the dog was found. I believe, as I think you do, that it would be nearly impossible for the dog to end up that far down the river if it drowned at the Alberton Rocks. I tend to believe the estranged husband when he said he was going to drown RB and her dog. If he abducted RB and her dog from the rest area, he likely headed west toward Superior. I suspect he is familiar with the area and left I-90 at Exit 66, Fish Creek Rd. A right on Fish Creek Rd would lead him to Old Highway 10 W, a lightly traveled road. A left onto Old Highway 10 W leads to the Triple Bridges, the perfect spot to dump a dead/murdered dog into the Clark Fork River from a car. The distance from the Triple Bridges to the Rock Creek beach where the dog was found seems about the right distance for the dog to travel downstream.
If DB did abduct RB and toss her murdered dog into the Clark Fork River from the Triple Bridges as I have suggested above, what happened next. At that point I think DB makes a plan. He decides to hide RB's body and then return to the Albertson rocks to stage her belongings on the beach. From Old Highway 10 W, he could have turned right on Perkins Creek Rd and then right again on Road No. 459. Road No. 459 is a small, rural road that circles back eastward to I-90 (via Mead Ln) not far from the Alberton Rocks. It is remote and in my opinion would be the perfect place to hide a body. Specifically there several turnoffs leading up forested ravines that would provide cover for anyone doing something nefarious. If I were able to be in Montana, this is where I would search for RB."

2.) "After reexamining Google Maps, I believe it might have occurred further downstream, closer to where Cerberus was found (the beach opposite of Rock Creek). There is a small road by the Clark Fork River that parallels Lower Fish Creek Road. I can imagine DB tossing him into the river at a spot accessed by this small road. Lower Fish Creek Road leads to NF-344 and then to NF-7764 which leads to the Fish Creek State Park area. The area surrounding Fish Creek State Park is heavily forested and has what looks to be many back country trails and roads. It seems that RB could be anywhere, however, I think this might be a good area to search when Spring arrives.

You asked for where a land search should start and why. This is my answer.

 

[Kagie1]

Yes, I agree the search you describe would be impossible. What is needed are targeted land searches based on educated guesses. I have suggested two such areas in my previous posts. Here are my thoughts reposted:

1.) "This is very interesting. Since your post, I have been examining the area that the dog was found. I believe, as I think you do, that it would be nearly impossible for the dog to end up that far down the river if it drowned at the Alberton Rocks. I tend to believe the estranged husband when he said he was going to drown RB and her dog. If he abducted RB and her dog from the rest area, he likely headed west toward Superior. I suspect he is familiar with the area and left I-90 at Exit 66, Fish Creek Rd. A right on Fish Creek Rd would lead him to Old Highway 10 W, a lightly traveled road. A left onto Old Highway 10 W leads to the Triple Bridges, the perfect spot to dump a dead/murdered dog into the Clark Fork River from a car. The distance from the Triple Bridges to the Rock Creek beach where the dog was found seems about the right distance for the dog to travel downstream.
If DB did abduct RB and toss her murdered dog into the Clark Fork River from the Triple Bridges as I have suggested above, what happened next. At that point I think DB makes a plan. He decides to hide RB's body and then return to the Albertson rocks to stage her belongings on the beach. From Old Highway 10 W, he could have turned right on Perkins Creek Rd and then right again on Road No. 459. Road No. 459 is a small, rural road that circles back eastward to I-90 (via Mead Ln) not far from the Alberton Rocks. It is remote and in my opinion would be the perfect place to hide a body. Specifically there several turnoffs leading up forested ravines that would provide cover for anyone doing something nefarious. If I were able to be in Montana, this is where I would search for RB."

2.) "After reexamining Google Maps, I believe it might have occurred further downstream, closer to where Cerberus was found (the beach opposite of Rock Creek). There is a small road by the Clark Fork River that parallels Lower Fish Creek Road. I can imagine DB tossing him into the river at a spot accessed by this small road. Lower Fish Creek Road leads to NF-344 and then to NF-7764 which leads to the Fish Creek State Park area. The area surrounding Fish Creek State Park is heavily forested and has what looks to be many back country trails and roads. It seems that RB could be anywhere, however, I think this might be a good area to search when Spring arrives.

You asked for where a land search should start and why. This is my answer.

Thanks again and for a well thought out reply. I'm familiar with these roads and areas of which you speak. Keep in mind what shows on G-Maps and reality are not always the same which I know you are aware of. First, I must make it clear once again that I believe it possible for Cerb to have drowned in the area where the car was found and to have subsequently drifted into and through the gorge area to the area where he was found above Tarkio. I was at this very area of the Clark Fork down at the river at Cyr bridge checking the flow on July 15. Please don't be confused on my stance of this theory. I'm not saying I'm right I just believe it to be possible and not improbable. 50-50 I'd say.

As for the abduction at the area where the car was found. Possible but improbable due to the publicity of the area. Back to the part of opportunity and ability. This would be a very high risk venture on DB part for a couple reasons. First is the publicity of the location and getting caught in the crime. Second is the actual abduction was there any sign of a struggle? I would expect Rebekah to put up a fight and if so this would cause a delay in securing her and then "cleaning up" the scene. All the while trying to secure the dog as well. It would be pretty brazen and most likely require an accomplice willing to put themselves in harms way since DB was probably well aware she carried a firearm and he could very well get shot. How'd he know there was going to be opportunity for an abduction at the fishing access? Was he just following her?

Not easy drowning a dog of that size. Maybe it wasn't drowned and we may never know now unfortunately. Still the dog would have to have been dispatched somewhere some how and disposed of. Triple bridges is a popular play spot for kayakers. They park there and carry their boats down to the river and surf the class III rapids under the bridges. I say carry because there's no easy trial down. It's rough and rocky so DB's going to have to be in good shape or his help is (if he has any) to pack of dog down there. Once again this is a popular play place and the chances of getting caught are high. Why do you say Hwy 10 is lightly traveled? During the summer it's a well traveled road for gorge boaters running shuttles between Cyr and Tarkio.

Stashing a body after drowning/disposing of a dog in a river to return to the scene of a crime to place belongings on the beach for staging of a drowning then going back, picking up the body and disposing of it creates a significant risk of getting caught. Plus the physical strength required to do all this would be a herculean event. Is this within his abilities?

What about the cell phone during all this. If it was with him there would be a ping trail noting its travel.

You are definitely right about one thing... RB could be anywhere. Let's tackle the river consideration first as this will need to be done this winter before the snow melt and the water comes up and washes everything away. Then we'll consider the surrounding area.

 

[Steve McQueen]

Thanks for your well thought out reply as well. I agree, search the water now and tackle some specific land areas in the Spring.

As you have probably guessed I have given this case a lot of thought and some my theories have evolved over time. With regards to points you make in your post:

1. @laurawlms has said that RB told the caretaker about her plan to visit the Alberton Rocks. It would not be a stretch to suggest that the caretaker communicated this to DB.

2. I have come to the conclusion that DB would have needed an accomplice to abduct RB and her dog. The most likely accomplice IMO is the caretaker.

3. Regarding the risk of staging an abduction at such a public/popular place: Apparently there were severe thunderstorms in the area that day and it is not clear how many people were at the Rocks. In fact no one has come forward saying that they saw RB enter the water. Also I don't believe she was abducted from the beach. It would make more sense for DB to wait for her to return to her car in the parking lot.

4. The accomplice would serve two purposes. First to help overcome RB, corral her dog and get them into DB's truck. The second would be to run back down to the beach to stage the scene with her clothing and cell phone.

5. I don't believe Cerberus was drowned. Probably either strangled, stabbed or shot in front of RB as some sort of twisted revenge act. @laurawlms has said that no autopsy was performed on Cerberus.

6. When I suggested the triple bridges, I envisioned DB tossing the dead dog over the bridge railing. More recently I've considered that that Cerberus was dumped along the river bank in the Fish Creek Road area. Would this be a more secluded spot?

One other thought about a land search. IMO this situation is not similar to someone who has wandered off into the woods or a field. A grid search would not be necessary. If DB disposed of RB in a remote area, she is probable near the side of a back road as carrying her any distance would have been difficult. You have much more experience searching than I do (I have none). Wouldn't a drive up some of these remote back roads in the Spring be warranted?

All this being MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I've read several times that people commented about what a hot day July 20 was, 89 degrees was the high in Alberton and with no precipitation. I might be mistaken, was the mention of a thunderstorm in Missoula? If so their weather was the same as Alberton. I'm sure the cellphone video shows the weather too. In any case, I can't imagine a broad daylight abduction in an occupied parking lot, with the victims drawing no attention, especially when the dog is a Malinois, an excellent personal protection dog. Even barking would have attracted some attention. Please don't think the dog would not attack the ex or anyone else because of familiarity.
Then there is the complication of the items at the river. If they waited in the parking lot, they never saw where she was, they would have had to watch the video to figure out where to put the phone at the river. Then there's the problem of the alibi, the 2nd person might have one too, like where did they go after the meet? They might have been with family or friends.
Does anyone know if RB was on a cellphone plan separate from her ex? The pings on the phone would answer a lot of questions. If a contract for the phone is at her home, there should be enough information to get into the phone records online, there could be a lot of data available. I might contact an attorney if anyone else's name is on the contract. Cellphone carriers are used to requests from families, find out what you need to do if you can't get in online. Doesn't hurt to ask, the sheriff's office might release just the ping info to the family. What if that phone never moved until the officer retrieved it?
https://www.com/en/us/alberton/59820/july-weather/2209819?year=2021
Missoula, MT Weather Calendar | Weather Underground

 

[laurawlms]

Ok, I had the understanding that the vid taken of Cerb at the beach and sent to AM was taken on July 20th presumably by Rebekah and this was the same vid LE had obviously because they now have her phone. This would have established a fairly solid Last Known Position (LKP). Not sure how I missed this... And the Town Pump video doesn't show Rebekah either??? Does it show anyone getting into or out of her car while at the Town Pump?

If the family is interested I'm considering getting a private search team together and scouting the Alberton Gorge before the spring thaw but I will need more details of the case than what I'm picking up here. As a private party I do not need the Mineral County Sheriff's request or permission to do so but as proper etiquette and politeness I will address my intent with him or one of his representatives before doing so. I can only imagine his department being supportive of such measures.

Yes and thank you! The family would definitely be interested in your search offer. How do I connect you with AM who is better able to speak with you about this?

 

[Gina20]

Thanks again and for a well thought out reply. I'm familiar with these roads and areas of which you speak. Keep in mind what shows on G-Maps and reality are not always the same which I know you are aware of. First, I must make it clear once again that I believe it possible for Cerb to have drowned in the area where the car was found and to have subsequently drifted into and through the gorge area to the area where he was found above Tarkio. I was at this very area of the Clark Fork down at the river at Cyr bridge checking the flow on July 15. Please don't be confused on my stance of this theory. I'm not saying I'm right I just believe it to be possible and not improbable. 50-50 I'd say.

As for the abduction at the area where the car was found. Possible but improbable due to the publicity of the area. Back to the part of opportunity and ability. This would be a very high risk venture on DB part for a couple reasons. First is the publicity of the location and getting caught in the crime. Second is the actual abduction was there any sign of a struggle? I would expect Rebekah to put up a fight and if so this would cause a delay in securing her and then "cleaning up" the scene. All the while trying to secure the dog as well. It would be pretty brazen and most likely require an accomplice willing to put themselves in harms way since DB was probably well aware she carried a firearm and he could very well get shot. How'd he know there was going to be opportunity for an abduction at the fishing access? Was he just following her?

Not easy drowning a dog of that size. Maybe it wasn't drowned and we may never know now unfortunately. Still the dog would have to have been dispatched somewhere some how and disposed of. Triple bridges is a popular play spot for kayakers. They park there and carry their boats down to the river and surf the class III rapids under the bridges. I say carry because there's no easy trial down. It's rough and rocky so DB's going to have to be in good shape or his help is (if he has any) to pack of dog down there. Once again this is a popular play place and the chances of getting caught are high. Why do you say Hwy 10 is lightly traveled? During the summer it's a well traveled road for gorge boaters running shuttles between Cyr and Tarkio.

Stashing a body after drowning/disposing of a dog in a river to return to the scene of a crime to place belongings on the beach for staging of a drowning then going back, picking up the body and disposing of it creates a significant risk of getting caught. Plus the physical strength required to do all this would be a herculean event. Is this within his abilities?

What about the cell phone during all this. If it was with him there would be a ping trail noting its travel.

You are definitely right about one thing... RB could be anywhere. Let's tackle the river consideration first as this will need to be done this winter before the snow melt and the water comes up and washes everything away. Then we'll consider the surrounding area.

So much of the timeline is debatable.

Also, I bought a simple Faraday cage for my phone from Amazon. It was about $10, and it works. No signal gets in or out. I've tested it. Cellphones can ping without their owner's presence, just as vehicles can be driven by people other than their owners. Seeing a car without its owner only means that we have seen a car, not its owner.

Seeing belongings on a beach only means that we have seen things, not a person. Forensic analysis through touch DNA could have told us who touched the things.

<modsnip>

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I'm not seeing anything debatable in the timeline, RB was in Superior and was at the river, with plenty of documentation that is not being questioned by the family. RB took a selfie in the vehicle that day. The ending time of the video is unknown, but the 911 call and the arrival of the trooper are provable facts.
If the phone doesn't ping a different position until it left the rest stop with the officer, the phone wasn't
moved, so therefore no one took it away, then brought it back to plant it. Text messages and phone calls will also corroborate or add to the timeline. I don't use a Faraday, I want my family to be able to find me or at least find my phone if we were separated.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

It was mentioned by the family that RB's fitness tracker indicated that, because of the step count, it appeared that RB walked the longer way down to the river. My fitbit is not completely waterproof and if submerged for a time, it stops working. I would guess the phone uploaded data as long as the device is within a short distance. My fitbit also has GPS, heart rate, etc. I can access data on my computer but only if my phone had already sent it. I don't know if the sheriff's dept would give you the information from the phone. If the device is Apple, they might help. In either case, there will be some information, that will help show what happened. You could see on the phone app, the time when it stopped tracking, out of range.

 

[Steve McQueen]

I've read several times that people commented about what a hot day July 20 was, 89 degrees was the high in Alberton and with no precipitation. I might be mistaken, was the mention of a thunderstorm in Missoula? If so their weather was the same as Alberton. I'm sure the cellphone video shows the weather too. In any case, I can't imagine a broad daylight abduction in an occupied parking lot, with the victims drawing no attention, especially when the dog is a Malinois, an excellent personal protection dog. Even barking would have attracted some attention. Please don't think the dog would not attack the ex or anyone else because of familiarity.
Then there is the complication of the items at the river. If they waited in the parking lot, they never saw where she was, they would have had to watch the video to figure out where to put the phone at the river. Then there's the problem of the alibi, the 2nd person might have one too, like where did they go after the meet? They might have been with family or friends.
Does anyone know if RB was on a cellphone plan separate from her ex? The pings on the phone would answer a lot of questions. If a contract for the phone is at her home, there should be enough information to get into the phone records online, there could be a lot of data available. I might contact an attorney if anyone else's name is on the contract. Cellphone carriers are used to requests from families, find out what you need to do if you can't get in online. Doesn't hurt to ask, the sheriff's office might release just the ping info to the family. What if that phone never moved until the officer retrieved it?
https://www.com/en/us/alberton/59820/july-weather/2209819?year=2021
Missoula, MT Weather Calendar | Weather Underground

Actually the parking lot would be the ideal place to abduct RB. Think about it, the parking lot is occupied by cars, not people. Except for the few people exiting or entering their vehicles, most of the people are down at the river. I envision DB and the caretaker waiting for RB and Cerberus to return to her car. Since they all know each other, I expect there might have been some brief conversation before the actual abduction. If planned before hand, the abduction itself could be carried out quite smoothly and quickly. A handful of dog treats would serve to pacify the dog. Maybe they brought their own leash and muzzle. DB holds RB at gun point while the caretaker accomplice gags her and zip ties her hands behind her back. They then march her over to their vehicle. While DB secures the victims in the vehicle, the caretaker carries RB's personal items including her cell phone down to the beach. She knows where to go because she noted which path RB used to return to the parking lot. The phone didn't ever leave the cell tower service area, so it would not have pinged the tower.

Obviously this is highly speculative and my opinion only.

I don't think the weather that day matters that much.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Actually the parking lot would be the ideal place to abduct RB. Think about it, the parking lot is occupied by cars, not people. Except for the few people exiting or entering their vehicles, most of the people are down at the river. I envision DB and the caretaker waiting for RB and Cerberus to return to her car. Since they all know each other, I expect there might have been some brief conversation before the actual abduction. If planned before hand, the abduction itself could be carried out quite smoothly and quickly. A handful of dog treats would serve to pacify the dog. Maybe they brought their own leash and muzzle. DB holds RB at gun point while the caretaker accomplice gags her and zip ties her hands behind her back. They then march her over to their vehicle. While DB secures the victims in the vehicle, the caretaker carries RB's personal items including her cell phone down to the beach. She knows where to go because she noted which path RB used to return to the parking lot. The phone didn't ever leave the cell tower service area, so it would not have pinged the tower.

Obviously this is highly speculative and my opinion only.

I don't think the weather that day matters that much.

I would think she'd be very startled and concerned to see her ex and his caretaker, he's not supposed to be anywhere near her and has allegedly made recent threats. She just picked up the last of her belongings in Superior, the caregiver is now here with the ex?
If she returned the way she went down, they would not have known where she had been at the river. I believe RB's car was parked in the most visible area of the parking lot. As soon as the dog senses her alerts, I don't think they could touch him or her without getting bit. A look at the phone would confirm whether or not RB walked back to the parking lot.

 

[Steve McQueen]

I would think she'd be very startled and concerned to see her ex and his caretaker, he's not supposed to be anywhere near her and has allegedly made recent threats. She just picked up the last of her belongings in Superior, the caregiver is now here with the ex?
If she returned the way she went down, they would not have known where she had been at the river. I believe RB's car was parked in the most visible area of the parking lot. As soon as the dog senses her alerts, I don't think they could touch him or her without getting bit. A look at the phone would confirm whether or not RB walked back to the parking lot.

Certainly she would be startled, but her first thought would probably have to do with the recent meeting with the caretaker at the Town Pump. I expect a brief conversation about that would have ensued. RB told the caretaker earlier at the Town Pump that she was going to the Alberton Rocks. Maybe she mentioned the specific area she liked to go. Do we know whether the clothes were found where the video was taken? It seems anywhere on the beach East of the Rocks would have sufficed for the ruse. I think you're overestimating the aggressiveness of RB's dog. I have found that nice people like RB have friendly dogs. I have dogs and they generally only get upset when another dog enters there territory. Although they are extremely loyal, I have never seen them become aggressive in an effort to protect my person. I don't think cell phone location within a service area is accurate enough to distinguish between the parking area and the beach.

Having said all this, certainly some of the issues you raise are legitimate. I happen to feel strongly this was an abduction and not an accidental drowning. I think coming up with detailed scenarios like this is a useful exercise. Thanks for engaging with me.

MOO