Muslims attack "gay" model in Amsterdam!

  • #161
We were attacked by terrorists who claim the label of "Muslim" while ignoring much of the religion itself. It is prejudice to decide that the actions of those muslims means all are bad - it is near the definition of prejudice - to judge someone not on their own actions, but on the group they fit into. If I am robbed by a black person, is it not prejudice to decide all black people are bad?

Nor is there the slightest hint that Obama is a Muslim. The only reason that rumor comes about is his racial background - another case of prejudice.

Muslims did not attack the US. A few individuals who are Muslim (or at least say they are, while ignoring much of what their prophet said) attacked the US. The difference here is huge - not in the least in that if all billions of Muslims were in fact attacking, we'd be in an enourmous world war, and most of us, muslim and not, would be dead.


All this starts because some Muslims do feel attacked by the USA, we prop up and support and sell weapons to corrupt governments that imprison and kill and torture their subjects - Muslims. So, by the same logic you seem to use to condemn all Muslims, we created our enemies with our own actions, it's fair for them to figure we're all to blame for the actions of our government. Right? How many have been killed by Saddam - a raving mad dictator we propped up and supported, once upon a time?
 
  • #162
  • #163
Lolz, my best friend is Jewish. And you said that most people who are anti-Zionist (which I'm not, but I think you mistook me to be one) are anti-Jewish as well.

It's funny.

I apologize. I took it that way as well.
Just a sensitivity of mine I guess.
Funny thing, I was adopted in to a Jewish family. My bios are not even close to being Jewish. It gets weird sometimes.
 
  • #164
We were attacked by terrorists who claim the label of "Muslim" while ignoring much of the religion itself. It is prejudice to decide that the actions of those muslims means all are bad - it is near the definition of prejudice - to judge someone not on their own actions, but on the group they fit into. If I am robbed by a black person, is it not prejudice to decide all black people are bad?

Nor is there the slightest hint that Obama is a Muslim. The only reason that rumor comes about is his racial background - another case of prejudice.

Muslims did not attack the US. A few individuals who are Muslim (or at least say they are, while ignoring much of what their prophet said) attacked the US. The difference here is huge - not in the least in that if all billions of Muslims were in fact attacking, we'd be in an enourmous world war, and most of us, muslim and not, would be dead.


All this starts because some Muslims do feel attacked by the USA, we prop up and support and sell weapons to corrupt governments that imprison and kill and torture their subjects - Muslims. So, by the same logic you seem to use to condemn all Muslims, we created our enemies with our own actions, it's fair for them to figure we're all to blame for the actions of our government. Right? How many have been killed by Saddam - a raving mad dictator we propped up and supported, once upon a time?
I am an American who loves it here. I don't find my government to be the bad guys..I see them protecting us from the bad guys. Every one of the terrorists in GITMO seem to be Muslims. I think what we need to understand is that there are some folks who were born either, Muslims, Jews, Christians that don't follow their religion and do there own thing while labeling themselves Muslims, Christians and Jews. I am talking about Muslims who follow the tenets of their religion. I have read the Koran and I know what it says. I know that they consider Christians and Jews to be satan and an enemy of Allah. Radicals of any religious group need to be avoided at all costs by rational folks.
As far as Obama not being a Muslim..his own half sister in Indonesia says he is. His mother was a card caring member of the communist party, as well as both his father and step father.
Now we have his friends. I always say that you can tell more about a person by who they have as friends then what comes out of their mouths. No one makes a habit of keeping company with people who have certain moral and ethical views, unless they have the same views.
He attended for twenty years a "church" who preached racial hatred. I have never heard that type of hate in any Christian or Jewish place of worship. SO YEAH...all of that worries me.
 
  • #165
Nor is there the slightest hint that Obama is a Muslim. The only reason that rumor comes about is his racial background - another case of prejudice.

Except he was born to a muslim father. (which in the Muslim faith makes him a Muslim)
(let's forget he attended a Mosque and his sister has made the statement that her family is Muslim.) Half brother is a Muslim extremist.


Muslims did not attack the US. A few individuals who are Muslim (or at least say they are, while ignoring much of what their prophet said) attacked the US. The difference here is huge - not in the least in that if all billions of Muslims were in fact attacking, we'd be in an enourmous world war, and most of us, muslim and not, would be dead.


It's true that all Muslims aren't terrorists but all who attacked us, were/are. And, according to the faith, it's not a problem to kill Kaffirs, so I'm not sure where you're getting that they're not following what the prophet said.


All this starts because some Muslims do feel attacked by the USA, we prop up and support and sell weapons to corrupt governments that imprison and kill and torture their subjects - Muslims. So, by the same logic you seem to use to condemn all Muslims, we created our enemies with our own actions, it's fair for them to figure we're all to blame for the actions of our government. Right? How many have been killed by Saddam - a raving mad dictator we propped up and supported, once upon a time?


Bullsmit. Resistance is the same as attacking them. Cartoons they find offensive are the same as attacking them. ETC.
 
  • #166
I apologize. I took it that way as well.
Just a sensitivity of mine I guess.
Funny thing, I was adopted in to a Jewish family. My bios are not even close to being Jewish. It gets weird sometimes.

I certainly didn't mean to be offensive, and I'm glad you realized that! My point was to make people more aware of their prejudices.

I changed one word in the sentence, Muslim to Jewish, and immediately people took notice. I think that both notions, the notion of a Muslim plant and the notion of a Jewish plant, are equally shocking.
 
  • #167
Except he was born to a muslim father. (which in the Muslim faith makes him a Muslim)
(let's forget he attended a Mosque and his sister has made the statement that her family is Muslim.) Half brother is a Muslim extremist.
.

"Someone in the audience asked whether Obama’s father was Muslim. Soetoro-Ng replied, “Barack’s father wasn’t Muslim. He was a secular intellectual; he didn’t practice a religion. These rumors are designed quite clearly to hurt; there’s no mystery there. Barack is the most religious person in our family; his means of practicing is very broad and respectful of all faiths. He’s been a Christian for about twenty years; this is a real call to service for him.” "
from this link
http://www.haleakalatimes.com/story2862.aspx

Thats what Obamas half sister said about his father and his religion. She is his sister from his mothers marriage to an Indonesian man. Her fathers family is Muslim like you said but I don't think she is anymore? I believe her husband is not Muslim so if she is she's obviously not very strict. Their mother never was any particular religion.
The sister does NOT live in Indonesia as curiositycat said, she teaches school in Hawaii, and she's never said Obama is a Muslim. He attended a mosque at least occasionally as a kid w/the stepfather but its pretty clear that they were exposed to a number of religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc) by their mother and he chose Christianity as an adult.

Also, Barack Obama only saw his father once after his parents divorced when he was 2. I don't believe he even met any of his Kenyan half-siblings until he was an adult so I don't see how this brothers possible Muslim extremism would have much bearing on his life at all really? Plenty of people have family members that they don't share beliefs with.

I would never vote for Obama or pretty much any other Democrat but IMO all these rumours and false stories about him and his family were just put out to play on the racism/xenophobia, ignorance and/or irrational fears of a large portion of the general public.

"We were attack by Muslims. Of course it would stand to reason that we might not trust them nor feel really warm and fuzzy over one of them being elected as our president.:confused: What is being prejudice got to do with it. IF Christians or Jews had attack the US I would feel the same about them! BUT THEY DIDN'T..it was Muslims."

I couldn't figure out how to do quotes from multiple posts so I just pasted that one sorry (its from curiositycat).

Deciding that an entire group of people should be feared and mistrusted because of the actions of a few IS prejudice. If someone felt the same about a Christian or a Jew simply because of their religion that would be prejudiced too.
 
  • #168
I certainly didn't mean to be offensive, and I'm glad you realized that! My point was to make people more aware of their prejudices.

I changed one word in the sentence, Muslim to Jewish, and immediately people took notice. I think that both notions, the notion of a Muslim plant and the notion of a Jewish plant, are equally shocking.

No, with all due respect it makes no sense. You keep forgetting 9-11. We were attack by Muslims not Jews. That's why putting some one with Islamic views, if they have them, in the White House is disconcerting to some. IF Jews had put planes into the twin towers we would also worry about Jews in the White House. But they did not. In this case comparing Muslims to Jews is like comparing apples to oranges.
 
  • #169
"Someone in the audience asked whether Obama’s father was Muslim. Soetoro-Ng replied, “Barack’s father wasn’t Muslim. He was a secular intellectual; he didn’t practice a religion. These rumors are designed quite clearly to hurt; there’s no mystery there. Barack is the most religious person in our family; his means of practicing is very broad and respectful of all faiths. He’s been a Christian for about twenty years; this is a real call to service for him.” "
from this link
http://www.haleakalatimes.com/story2862.aspx

The Times reports that Obama was registered as a Muslim student all the time he was in school in Jakarta. Obama's sister, Miss Soetoro, denies her family was Muslim and says her relatives only went to the Mosque for “big communal events.”

(like Christians who only go to church for Christmas, it doesn't mean that they're not Christians)
======================
Obama Jr's Muslim schooling

Soetoro enrolled Obama Jr. in an Indonesian Catholic school and later in one of Jakarta's Muslim controlled public schools.

During his time in Indonesia, Obama Jr, was known as Barry Soetoro. He attended first grade at a Catholic elementary school near his home, St. Francis of Assisi Foundation School, which accepted students of any religion. Barry's primary school teacher said he registered as a Muslim and that he attended Koranic religious class.

"At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim. He was registered as a Muslim because his father was Muslim." Barry's first-grade teacher Israella Dharmawan told the San Francisco Times

"Barry was a Muslim. He went to the mosque," boyhood buddy Zulfin Adi told the Times.

""My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim," said Maya Soetoro-Ng, Mr. Obama's younger half sister.

In the third grade, Obama transferred to a public school, where he also registered as a Muslim. Students at the school attended weekly religion lessons about Islam which were taught by Muslims.

Also, In his autobiography, Dreams From My Father, Obama mentioned studying the Quran and describing the public school as "a Muslim school."

(my point, what is the big deal? Why hide it?)


Thats what Obamas half sister said about his father and his religion. She is his sister from his mothers marriage to an Indonesian man. Her fathers family is Muslim like you said but I don't think she is anymore? I believe her husband is not Muslim so if she is she's obviously not very strict. Their mother never was any particular religion.
The sister does NOT live in Indonesia as curiositycat said, she teaches school in Hawaii, and she's never said Obama is a Muslim. He attended a mosque at least occasionally as a kid w/the stepfather but its pretty clear that they were exposed to a number of religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc) by their mother and he chose Christianity as an adult.

Also, Barack Obama only saw his father once after his parents divorced when he was 2. I don't believe he even met any of his Kenyan half-siblings until he was an adult so I don't see how this brothers possible Muslim extremism would have much bearing on his life at all really? Plenty of people have family members that they don't share beliefs with.

I would never vote for Obama or pretty much any other Democrat but IMO all these rumours and false stories about him and his family were just put out to play on the racism/xenophobia, ignorance and/or irrational fears of a large portion of the general public.


Obama Jr's grandfather, for whom he was given the middle name, Hussein, was "fiercely devoted to Islam." He had at least 3 wives: Helima, who had no children, Akuma who gave birth to Sarah Obama, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. and Auma Obama. The third wife was Sarah, who Obama Jr. refers to as his "grandmother." Sarah became the primary care giver for Senior after his mother, Akuma, left the family when her children were still young.

At 18, Obama Jr's father, Barack Obama Sr. (Senior), married a girl called Kezia from a local village.

Four years later (1957) Obama Sr., because of his father's wealth and influence, was awarded an American sponsored scholarship in economics to the University of Hawaii. The presumption was that Obama Sr. would return to Africa and use his "Western-honed skills in a new Kenya."

At the age of 23, Obama Sr. left behind his pregnant wife Kezia and their children to become the first African student enrolled at the University of Hawaii.

Obama Sr's other wives

While still married to Kezia, Obama Sr. married fellow University of Hawaii student Anna Dunham, an 18 year old white anthropology major. Anna gave birth to a son on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu. Obama Sr., a Muslim, chose the Muslim Koranic name, Barack Hussein Obama, for his son. The middle name "Hussein" to honor Muslim grandfather Hussein Onyango Obama.

Two years later, Obama Sr. abandoned Anna and Obama Jr. for a scholarship to pursue a PhD program in economics at Harvard University.

In June 1964, Obama Sr. returned to Kenya to work for the Jomo Kenyatta administration. Soon after, he married another white woman, his third wife, an American-born teacher called Ruth, who he met at Harvard. She followed him back home to Africa and conceived 2 children by him. He fathered 2 more children by Kezia.

Anna divorced Obama Sr. when Obama Jr. was 6 to marry Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian Muslim. Soetoro moved his new family to Indonesia, the worlds most populous Muslim country. Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro was born in Indonesia.

Obama Senior died in 1982, the result of an alcohol-related car accident (his second) in Kenya. He left behind three wives, one mistress, six sons and a daughter -- also a possible eighth child by a mistress. Although Obama Jr. claims Senior was an atheist, Senior was buried as a Muslim. Obama Jr's mother, Anna, died of cancer a few months after the publication of his 1995 memoir.
 
  • #170
I certainly didn't mean to be offensive, and I'm glad you realized that! My point was to make people more aware of their prejudices.

I changed one word in the sentence, Muslim to Jewish, and immediately people took notice. I think that both notions, the notion of a Muslim plant and the notion of a Jewish plant, are equally shocking.

And equally preposterous! How would such a "plant" be effected and what would s/he hope to accomplish? It appears that some people need to turn off the Sci Fi channel...
 
  • #171
No, with all due respect it makes no sense. You keep forgetting 9-11. We were attack by Muslims not Jews. That's why putting some one with Islamic views, if they have them, in the White House is disconcerting to some. IF Jews had put planes into the twin towers we would also worry about Jews in the White House. But they did not. In this case comparing Muslims to Jews is like comparing apples to oranges.

As you must know, Christians have killed far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Christians -- EVEN IF WE ONLY CONSIDER THE PAST 7 YEARS!

Maybe we should worry that Obama is a Christian plant.
 
  • #172
As you must know, Christians have killed far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Christians -- EVEN IF WE ONLY CONSIDER THE PAST 7 YEARS!

Maybe we should worry that Obama is a Christian plant.

I don't know that at all. At last count we have had 4402 service men and women killed by Muslims in Iraq.:confused:
 
  • #173
I don't know that at all. At last count we have had 4402 service men and women killed by Muslims in Iraq.:confused:

And 100,000+ Muslims killed by (mostly Christian) U.S. service men and women. Or maybe the number is "only" 50,000. Either way, the Christians are way ahead when it comes to body counts (even if we add the 3,000 victims of 9/11 and the victims of other Al Qaeda attacks).
 
  • #174
And 100,000+ Muslims killed by (mostly Christian) U.S. service men and women. Or maybe the number is "only" 50,000. Either way, the Christians are way ahead when it comes to body counts (even if we add the 3,000 victims of 9/11 and the victims of other Al Qaeda attacks).

Not to mention that the Iraqis did not enlist for this.
 
  • #175
I am an American who loves it here.....
Oh goodie - is it that if I'm ever able to see a fault, even in actions we've acknowledged as wrong, if I ever question knee-jerk assumptions about muslims, I don't love America? So darn sick of that I cannot even begin to tell you.



Read the Koran - not exerpts pulled out of context that talk about what happens in time of battle, but the whole thing. Read about how Jews and Christians are people of the book to be treated with respect. Read about how no war may be started for the purposes of religion. Read about how far a Muslim is supposed to go to avoid war. And read our Bible and see how much there, about how we are supposed to kill all of our enemies, take their women, and think how you'd see our religion if that was all you'd read.

The religion isn't the problem. The perversions of it are.

America is the best in the world - but that doesn't make us perfect, nor are we without our own mistakes in our own history. If we don't acknowledge them, we cannot learn from them. And our behavior, others behavior, in the middle east, is no small part of why it is so screwed up. We've supported the worst of the dictators, so long as they claimed to be with us, ignoring what they did to their people. We created binLaden. We supported Saddam - even as he gassed the Kurds. We are not innocent, not in the slightest. To ignore all of our own faults, and see only the muslim faults - that is not a path to understand reality. I see posts here that ask why Muslims haven't distanced themselves - when they have by the tens of thousands and more. Those that talk of our own deaths while ignoring the innocent Muslims killed.

Ignoring our faults is not patriotism, it is jingoism. IMO, to love your country means accepting all of it's faults, and working to keep building it into something better, continual improvement. Apologizing and recognizing mistakes is maturity, and a good thing.
 
  • #176
Oh goodie - is it that if I'm ever able to see a fault, even in actions we've acknowledged as wrong, if I ever question knee-jerk assumptions about muslims, I don't love America? So darn sick of that I cannot even begin to tell you.



Read the Koran - not exerpts pulled out of context that talk about what happens in time of battle, but the whole thing. Read about how Jews and Christians are people of the book to be treated with respect. Read about how no war may be started for the purposes of religion. Read about how far a Muslim is supposed to go to avoid war. And read our Bible and see how much there, about how we are supposed to kill all of our enemies, take their women, and think how you'd see our religion if that was all you'd read.

The religion isn't the problem. The perversions of it are.

America is the best in the world - but that doesn't make us perfect, nor are we without our own mistakes in our own history. If we don't acknowledge them, we cannot learn from them. And our behavior, others behavior, in the middle east, is no small part of why it is so screwed up. We've supported the worst of the dictators, so long as they claimed to be with us, ignoring what they did to their people. We created binLaden. We supported Saddam - even as he gassed the Kurds. We are not innocent, not in the slightest. To ignore all of our own faults, and see only the muslim faults - that is not a path to understand reality. I see posts here that ask why Muslims haven't distanced themselves - when they have by the tens of thousands and more. Those that talk of our own deaths while ignoring the innocent Muslims killed.

Ignoring our faults is not patriotism, it is jingoism. IMO, to love your country means accepting all of it's faults, and working to keep building it into something better, continual improvement. Apologizing and recognizing mistakes is maturity, and a good thing.


Sensational!

And yes, we certainly created Bin Laden, and provided Saddam with the weapons to massacre Kurds - then used it as a pretext for war a few years later, while our good friends Turkey persecute the Kurds a few miles away.
 
  • #177
Oh goodie - is it that if I'm ever able to see a fault, even in actions we've acknowledged as wrong, if I ever question knee-jerk assumptions about muslims, I don't love America? So darn sick of that I cannot even begin to tell you.



Read the Koran - not exerpts pulled out of context that talk about what happens in time of battle, but the whole thing. Read about how Jews and Christians are people of the book to be treated with respect. Read about how no war may be started for the purposes of religion. Read about how far a Muslim is supposed to go to avoid war. And read our Bible and see how much there, about how we are supposed to kill all of our enemies, take their women, and think how you'd see our religion if that was all you'd read.

The religion isn't the problem. The perversions of it are.

America is the best in the world - but that doesn't make us perfect, nor are we without our own mistakes in our own history. If we don't acknowledge them, we cannot learn from them. And our behavior, others behavior, in the middle east, is no small part of why it is so screwed up. We've supported the worst of the dictators, so long as they claimed to be with us, ignoring what they did to their people. We created binLaden. We supported Saddam - even as he gassed the Kurds. We are not innocent, not in the slightest. To ignore all of our own faults, and see only the muslim faults - that is not a path to understand reality. I see posts here that ask why Muslims haven't distanced themselves - when they have by the tens of thousands and more. Those that talk of our own deaths while ignoring the innocent Muslims killed.

Ignoring our faults is not patriotism, it is jingoism. IMO, to love your country means accepting all of it's faults, and working to keep building it into something better, continual improvement. Apologizing and recognizing mistakes is maturity, and a good thing.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
  • #178
No, with all due respect it makes no sense. You keep forgetting 9-11. We were attack by Muslims not Jews. That's why putting some one with Islamic views, if they have them, in the White House is disconcerting to some. IF Jews had put planes into the twin towers we would also worry about Jews in the White House. But they did not. In this case comparing Muslims to Jews is like comparing apples to oranges.
No - we were attacked by some individuals who claim to be muslim (many Muslims disagree - attacking unarmed civilians is completely forbidden by the Koran, as are many of their other actions - you can find a few fatwa's against terrorism out there if you look).

We've been attacked by many different peoples in our history. Not so long ago, we were fighting Christians who were engaging in a policy of rape and ethnic cleansing - should we be wary of them? (Serbia - and on the side of the Muslims those Christians were ethnically cleansing and raping away - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Bosnia#Ethnic_cleansing).
 
  • #179
If Muslims are such peaceful loving people then why is there so much upheaval and fighting in Muslim countries at this time?
 
  • #180
If Christians are such peaceful loving people then why is there so much upheaval and fighting in Christian countries at this time - and all throughout their past?

You can't find any religion where their countries tend to be peaceful, Buddhist, Muslim, nor Christian. It is what it is. The Christian Europe was in constant war throughout it's history, one country taking over another, not to mention the Crusades when they got bored of attacking each other.

There are peaceful Muslim countries, and ones with a great deal of strife. Same goes for Christian countries. If you want to see something tragic - take a look at the list of countries using children as soldiers in their current fighting. Guess what religion a bunch of those countries follow - most, or close to most of them? Brundi - Roman Catholics. CAR, about 60% christian variants - and so on and so forth - Rwanda, one of the worst, almost 95% christian. Some mostly muslim countries there too - Sierra Leone, for one of the standouts. Or Burma, if you want to read about a Buddhist country using inhumane methods and children as soldiers.




If you took every bad thing about Christianity, quoted and read quotes only of things like:
Zimbabwe - The ZANU-PF government of Robert Mugabe sponsors a "youth militia" -- the National Youth Service, known as the "Green Bombers". The children are armed, provided with narcotics, and used for acts of urban violence against political dissidents. They are believed responsible for some of the worst acts of political violence in recent history.[13]
as examples of what Christian countries are like - it'd be easy to say the Christian religion is the problem too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_soldiers#Africa
 

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