I'll agree with that also. :clap::clap::clap:
Muslims attack "gay" model in Amsterdam!
- Thread starter Karole28
- Start date
I'll agree with that also. :clap::clap::clap:
Oh, BINGO! :clap::clap::clap:
:clap::clap::clap:
Yes but the unfortunately the same applies. What else would work?
Do you think offering some kind of political asylum would work or would that just compound the Problem?
Do you think offering some kind of political asylum would work or would that just compound the Problem?
It is laudable for you to assume that many folks do not lump radicals Muslims in with mainstream Muslims. In my "real" life, I know plenty that do. I don't think it ever hurts to point out that basic difference because there are folks who do not get it. I don't know how pointing it out would make people who do get it feel seem intolerant.
Karole28
Former Member
Who do you mean by "we?" I am dumbfounded that such a point - valid and bound to come up these days whenever this topic is discussed - is found insulting.
Sorry Karole had to check something and posted before I finished typing. I edited and finished the post if you want to see my finished question.
...
Karole28
Former Member
I *hate* getting bogged down in stuff like this when a conversation is ongoing, but anyhoo.
It insinuates that the writer has no valid point and is a bigot and is an attempt to nullify their argument, ie: it's insulting.
And for most people, it's assumed when discussing a religion/society, etc the speaker isn't talking about EVERY PERSON within that religion/society, etc unless otherwise noted by the speaker (ie: ALL muslims, etfreakincetera)
Karole28
Former Member
If offering political asylum compounded the problem, I think it'd need addressing at that time. And, shouldn't be a reason for not doing the right thing.
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Will you adopt me, please??
Agreed but I was trying to look for specific cases where political asylum had been offered and was interested in finding the experiences of women who had benefited by that. As yet haven't found any stories but I'm sure there must be some out there.
Karole28
Former Member
I'm not aware of any in the US, but I do know that Muslim women (of other nationalities, ie: British) visiting the ME have been rescued by the appropriate embassies there.
This isn't the specific case I was thinking about, but I have heard of this before (particularly about Pakistan):
Click!
Pakistan, Britain act on marriges
(AP)
Updated: 2006-08-29 19:47
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Her father said it would be a two-week holiday to learn about her Pakistani heritage. But the British woman soon found herself captive in a remote tribal village for over a year and promised in marriage to a first cousin she'd never met.
With the British High Commission's help this month, the woman escaped Pakistan shortly before her planned wedding, avoiding the phenomenon of forced marriage that befalls scores of foreign women, including Americans, annually in this deeply conservative Islamic country.
The 20-year-old British woman of Pakistani origon , who declined to show her face and reveal her actual name and asked to go by Shazia for her own personal protection, seen in Islamabad, Pakistan on August 22, 2006. [AP]
"My dad made me believe it was just a holiday," said the 20-year-old woman, who declined to reveal her actual name and asked to go by Shazia for her own protection. "But the weeks turned into months and months. I never believed my own father would have a plan to marry me to someone I didn't know, but I was wrong."
Karole28
Former Member
Canada offers asylum:
Click!
In April 1991, a 22-year-old Saudi woman arrived at Montreal's Mirabel Airport and requested asylum on the ground of "gender-related persecution." She told authorities that if Canada forced her to return to Saudi Arabia, her life would be in danger. Her crime? Walking outside her home without being enveloped from head to toe in a black chador.
Initially, the woman's request was rejected. Canadian officials were apparently reluctant to believe that women in Saudi Arabia today live as third-class citizens. In fact, they do: Saudi women are not allowed to drive, to marry whom they want or to travel without written permission from a male guardian, and they are the target of frequent searches by the Mutawwai'in, dreaded religious police.
Following an outcry, Canada finally granted the woman asylum. However, some people feared that the decision would lead to an influx of women asylum-seekers. One official commented, "There are one billion Muslims in the world, so we're talking hypothetically about 500 million who might want out."
As Islamic fundamentalists seize the social agenda of one country after another, women have been the greatest sufferers. By selectively interpreting the Koran, Hadith (the sayings of the Prophet) and Shariah (a code of religious law), regimes in certain Muslim countries have severely restricted the rights of women. Many have legalised polygamy and repudiation - whereby a man divorces his wife simply by announcing, "I divorce you." At the same time they have denied women the right to divorce, child custody and community property.
Under the banner of Islam, (although it is not Islamic in origin) female circumcision, more accurately defined at female genital mutilation (F.G.M.) has flourished in many countries. Algerian Marie-Aimee Helie-Lucas, founder of the French-based advocacy group Women Living Under Islamic Laws, likens the past decade for Muslim women to the Dark Ages. She rattles off some of the most heinous developments regarding women in the Muslim world: -
In 1990, Iraq issued a decree effectively allowing women to kill their wives, daughters or sisters for adultery. -
Click!
In April 1991, a 22-year-old Saudi woman arrived at Montreal's Mirabel Airport and requested asylum on the ground of "gender-related persecution." She told authorities that if Canada forced her to return to Saudi Arabia, her life would be in danger. Her crime? Walking outside her home without being enveloped from head to toe in a black chador.
Initially, the woman's request was rejected. Canadian officials were apparently reluctant to believe that women in Saudi Arabia today live as third-class citizens. In fact, they do: Saudi women are not allowed to drive, to marry whom they want or to travel without written permission from a male guardian, and they are the target of frequent searches by the Mutawwai'in, dreaded religious police.
Following an outcry, Canada finally granted the woman asylum. However, some people feared that the decision would lead to an influx of women asylum-seekers. One official commented, "There are one billion Muslims in the world, so we're talking hypothetically about 500 million who might want out."
As Islamic fundamentalists seize the social agenda of one country after another, women have been the greatest sufferers. By selectively interpreting the Koran, Hadith (the sayings of the Prophet) and Shariah (a code of religious law), regimes in certain Muslim countries have severely restricted the rights of women. Many have legalised polygamy and repudiation - whereby a man divorces his wife simply by announcing, "I divorce you." At the same time they have denied women the right to divorce, child custody and community property.
Under the banner of Islam, (although it is not Islamic in origin) female circumcision, more accurately defined at female genital mutilation (F.G.M.) has flourished in many countries. Algerian Marie-Aimee Helie-Lucas, founder of the French-based advocacy group Women Living Under Islamic Laws, likens the past decade for Muslim women to the Dark Ages. She rattles off some of the most heinous developments regarding women in the Muslim world: -
In 1990, Iraq issued a decree effectively allowing women to kill their wives, daughters or sisters for adultery. -
Karole28
Former Member
Aha! the US:
A woman from a small oil-rich country in the Arabian Gulf was living in the United States when she was sexually assaulted by a man from her home country whom she trusted. That rape resulted in the conception and birth of an American-born child, who is now almost 12 years old. Recently, the woman was on the verge of being deported and sought asylum in the United States. If deported, she would certainly have been murdered for the dishonor brought upon her family because of the assault.
Photo by Bob Christy
Melissa Laubenthal is an immigration attorney in Cleveland, Ohio, who has worked with Dr. Nawal Ammar, Kent State professor of justice studies, on asylum cases.
According to a United Nations report, at least 5,000 women worldwide each year are murdered under the pretext of honor killings. As defined by UNICEF, an honor killing is an ancient practice in which men kill female relatives in the name of family honor for forced or suspected sexual relations outside marriage.
While the majority of honor killings take place in primarily Muslim nations, it is not part of Islamic religious practice, says Dr. Nawal Ammar, Kent State professor of justice studies. In an Islamic context, punishment for infidelity is 100 lashes if the woman is single, or death by stoning if married. In both cases, however, four witnesses must testify that the sexual act took place, which makes proving the infidelity extremely difficult.
Click!
A woman from a small oil-rich country in the Arabian Gulf was living in the United States when she was sexually assaulted by a man from her home country whom she trusted. That rape resulted in the conception and birth of an American-born child, who is now almost 12 years old. Recently, the woman was on the verge of being deported and sought asylum in the United States. If deported, she would certainly have been murdered for the dishonor brought upon her family because of the assault.
Photo by Bob Christy
Melissa Laubenthal is an immigration attorney in Cleveland, Ohio, who has worked with Dr. Nawal Ammar, Kent State professor of justice studies, on asylum cases.
According to a United Nations report, at least 5,000 women worldwide each year are murdered under the pretext of honor killings. As defined by UNICEF, an honor killing is an ancient practice in which men kill female relatives in the name of family honor for forced or suspected sexual relations outside marriage.
While the majority of honor killings take place in primarily Muslim nations, it is not part of Islamic religious practice, says Dr. Nawal Ammar, Kent State professor of justice studies. In an Islamic context, punishment for infidelity is 100 lashes if the woman is single, or death by stoning if married. In both cases, however, four witnesses must testify that the sexual act took place, which makes proving the infidelity extremely difficult.
Click!
Thanks for all the research Karole. It was interesting that the Canadian article strove to clarify some of the very things we've been debating.
I wonder what else besides asylum would help women and gays in countries that are now falling under the sway of radical or fundamentalist Islam?
I wonder what else besides asylum would help women and gays in countries that are now falling under the sway of radical or fundamentalist Islam?
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