Mystery Male Chaperone (MMC)

[liz b.]

above bold mine.

LizB, she took him to school to take a picture of him there and establish the beginning of her alibi, imho.

Susan10,
Hmmm, but,she has a swiss cheese alibi : driving along rural roads for 90 minutes to soothe a child's earache ????

All JMO

 

[Susan10]

Susan10,
Hmmm, but,she has a swiss cheese alibi : driving along rural roads for 90 minutes to soothe a child's earache ????

All JMO

Swiss cheese alibi! Good one!

 

[Trident]

Why after all this time? Why now?

Because, IMHO, from the get-go there has never been an investigation into "what happened to little Kyron Horman."

There has only been an investigation into "what did TH do to Kyron and how do we prove it?" Fueled in large part by DY (a lot via TY, I'm convinced) and KH.

I found this from KATU very interesting:

"The Oregonian reported on Monday that investigators are trying to learn if another adult was sitting in the white pickup truck that Terri Horman drove to Skyline School on the day Kyron disappeared."

Note: *if.*

So I checked the Oregonian story and they use the term "may have."

So I'm not yet convinced that the alleged sighting of someone in that particular white truck has been verified.

It amazes me that if someone says something that might point away from her, it's discounted. "Oh, that kid's too young." But if something is said to support the contention "she did it" then the kid is old enough, or the witnesses are reliable, or whatever.

And I've had another thought about the cell phones. Remember that TY proceeded to talk to the entire parenting group about what to expect re: privacy? (As I've pointed out before, that was wrong of him to do. He knew that, too. One of the things that LE does is to gauge people's reactions to stuff like that--and TY didn't allow LE to get that reaction first hand. All they have is what he/the others said.)

Any way--what if any one else in that group got bat phones? We don't know if they did or didn't. If any one else in that parental group had something they didn't want widely known--say other friendships--for whatever reason, maybe there's more than one person who'se used a bat phone after Kyron's disappearance.

If any of the other parents got a bat phone, does that make them guilty? Does that make it OK for TH to have one?

There's so much we *don't* know about...so many things. Give me more than edited snippets from maybe 2 emails, and a "maybe" sighting of a person in the Horman truck that so far hasn't been confirmed, nor has the person been identified. After 9 weeks, tons of interviews and re-interviews of people at the school, fliers, etc. *now* there "may have been" someone else in that truck but darned if they really know or know who.

Not only am I still on that fence, but I'm darned well making sure that no one rips out sections where I'm sitting to add to the "burn the witch" pile. Dammitall, I want facts, not edited snippets and unconfirmed rumors.

After 9 weeks, LE, working with a small school, where people know each other, with so many interviews, still has not been able to come up with basic facts or enough evidence to even decide if there was someone in the truck, or to charge anyone with anything.

However, they were able to prove that TH wasn't going to fall for "threats" from LS trying to entrap her into chatting about a MFH plot.-

And oh yes, some folks bought some bat phones. And they're looking for 'em.

Excellent, excellent post, especially the part I bolded. Oddly enough, just a few minutes ago I realized this case might not be about finding Kyron. Don't get me wrong, I'd had inklings of hinky stuff behind the scenes before this, but tonight prior to reading your post, I came to just about the same conclusion. The only difference is I cast my net further afield and, I found everyone is a POI in my opinion.

GREAT POST! :woohoo:

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Susan10,
Hmmm, but,she has a swiss cheese alibi : driving along rural roads for 90 minutes to soothe a child's earache ????

All JMO

LOL on the swiss cheese alibi.

IMOO

I don't think she felt she needed one. She had documentation (photograph) of K being in school that day. She made sure she spoke to a few people. Now the school is the one that has to figure it out. She is gone and awaits the bus at the end of the day. Maybe she thinks, I'm good. The school has to answer LE and FBI, DH and her hubby not her! After all, she left him there on the stairwell and said goodbye and all.

She had her back up plan in place? There was in her mind plan B state the "facts" of the following if needed:

* confusion, lack of supervision and strangers around, teacher being "hard of hearing", the teacher misunderstood the whole doctor thingy that she was trying to tell her.

* K having confusion, forgetting and other related "symptoms"..due to an unknown possiable seizure type of issues that she had amazingly just set an appointment for the day before he came up missing (according to her own reports)

Knowing noone from the school is going to call...she told them he had an appointment with him so she had plenty of time.

Oh and not to forget..there was a male chaporone that day, walking with two little girls and Kyron.."after I left". (someone please find those little girls cause they are hanging around with a potential kidnapper who she feels may have possiably been responsiable. Why else mention it?)

Jus saying she might of felt that she didn't need more than swiss cheese cause she was gonna slide though the holes. Oh and hold the mustard please....

 

[carbuff]

Why after all this time? Why now?

Because, IMHO, from the get-go there has never been an investigation into "what happened to little Kyron Horman."

There has only been an investigation into "what did TH do to Kyron and how do we prove it?" Fueled in large part by DY (a lot via TY, I'm convinced) and KH.

I found this from KATU very interesting:

"The Oregonian reported on Monday that investigators are trying to learn if another adult was sitting in the white pickup truck that Terri Horman drove to Skyline School on the day Kyron disappeared."

Note: *if.*

So I checked the Oregonian story and they use the term "may have."

So I'm not yet convinced that the alleged sighting of someone in that particular white truck has been verified.

It amazes me that if someone says something that might point away from her, it's discounted. "Oh, that kid's too young." But if something is said to support the contention "she did it" then the kid is old enough, or the witnesses are reliable, or whatever.

And I've had another thought about the cell phones. Remember that TY proceeded to talk to the entire parenting group about what to expect re: privacy? (As I've pointed out before, that was wrong of him to do. He knew that, too. One of the things that LE does is to gauge people's reactions to stuff like that--and TY didn't allow LE to get that reaction first hand. All they have is what he/the others said.)

Any way--what if any one else in that group got bat phones? We don't know if they did or didn't. If any one else in that parental group had something they didn't want widely known--say other friendships--for whatever reason, maybe there's more than one person who'se used a bat phone after Kyron's disappearance.

If any of the other parents got a bat phone, does that make them guilty? Does that make it OK for TH to have one?

There's so much we *don't* know about...so many things. Give me more than edited snippets from maybe 2 emails, and a "maybe" sighting of a person in the Horman truck that so far hasn't been confirmed, nor has the person been identified. After 9 weeks, tons of interviews and re-interviews of people at the school, fliers, etc. *now* there "may have been" someone else in that truck but darned if they really know or know who.

Not only am I still on that fence, but I'm darned well making sure that no one rips out sections where I'm sitting to add to the "burn the witch" pile. Dammitall, I want facts, not edited snippets and unconfirmed rumors.

After 9 weeks, LE, working with a small school, where people know each other, with so many interviews, still has not been able to come up with basic facts or enough evidence to even decide if there was someone in the truck, or to charge anyone with anything.

However, they were able to prove that TH wasn't going to fall for "threats" from LS trying to entrap her into chatting about a MFH plot.-

And oh yes, some folks bought some bat phones. And they're looking for 'em.

You're so right about all of this. TH may or may not be guilty of making off with Kyron, or trying to off her husband, or any of a number of other things, but we haven't seen evidence. The only thing I can hope is that the actual investigation is more thorough than the one that's being constantly leaked to the media.

 

[cypress]

You're so right about all of this. TH may or may not be guilty of making off with Kyron, or trying to off her husband, or any of a number of other things, but we haven't seen evidence. The only thing I can hope is that the actual investigation is more thorough than the one that's being constantly leaked to the media.

BBM

I doubt it. When LE resorts to questionnaires over two months after the fact requesting information and help from the general public, I am left with the deduction that their investigative efforts haven't produced that evidence.

So, my deductions are thus:

After conducting hundreds of interviews of Skyline staff, students, and parents, LE could not find a single witness who saw Kyron leave with Terri.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure of Terri's exact whereabouts at specific times on the day of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure of Dede's exact whereabouts at specific times on the day of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure if Terri Horman and Dede Spicher were together the morning of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE either revealed or recently learned that witnesses saw a second individual inside the Horman white truck on the morning of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE has been unable to identify the person seen inside the white truck on June 4.

IMHO, if they had verification of these facts, the questionnaires would be unnecessary.

And, also IMHO, if there were witnesses who saw Kyron leaving with Terri on June 4, she would've been arrested by now.

 

[liz b.]

LOL on the swiss cheese alibi.

IMOO

I don't think she felt she needed one. She had documentation (photograph) of K being in school that day. She made sure she spoke to a few people. Now the school is the one that has to figure it out. She is gone and awaits the bus at the end of the day. Maybe she thinks, I'm good. The school has to answer LE and FBI, DH and her hubby not her! After all, she left him there on the stairwell and said goodbye and all.

She had her back up plan in place? There was in her mind plan B state the "facts" of the following if needed:

* confusion, lack of supervision and strangers around, teacher being "hard of hearing", the teacher misunderstood the whole doctor thingy that she was trying to tell her.

* K having confusion, forgetting and other related "symptoms"..due to an unknown possiable seizure type of issues that she had amazingly just set an appointment for the day before he came up missing (according to her own reports)

Knowing noone from the school is going to call...she told them he had an appointment with him so she had plenty of time.

Oh and not to forget..there was a male chaporone that day, walking with two little girls and Kyron.."after I left". (someone please find those little girls cause they are hanging around with a potential kidnapper who she feels may have possiably been responsiable. Why else mention it?)

Jus saying she might of felt that she didn't need more than swiss cheese cause she was gonna slide though the holes. Oh and hold the mustard please....

No, sorry I do not believe that she murdered her stepson in cold blood... We might find out that there really was an unidentified male hanging around that morning. And what then ???

 

[SmoothOperator]

LOL on the swiss cheese alibi.

IMOO

I don't think she felt she needed one. She had documentation (photograph) of K being in school that day. She made sure she spoke to a few people. Now the school is the one that has to figure it out. She is gone and awaits the bus at the end of the day. Maybe she thinks, I'm good. The school has to answer LE and FBI, DH and her hubby not her! After all, she left him there on the stairwell and said goodbye and all.

She had her back up plan in place? There was in her mind plan B state the "facts" of the following if needed:

* confusion, lack of supervision and strangers around, teacher being "hard of hearing", the teacher misunderstood the whole doctor thingy that she was trying to tell her.

* K having confusion, forgetting and other related "symptoms"..due to an unknown possiable seizure type of issues that she had amazingly just set an appointment for the day before he came up missing (according to her own reports)

Knowing noone from the school is going to call...she told them he had an appointment with him so she had plenty of time.

Oh and not to forget..there was a male chaporone that day, walking with two little girls and Kyron.."after I left". (someone please find those little girls cause they are hanging around with a potential kidnapper who she feels may have possiably been responsiable. Why else mention it?)

Jus saying she might of felt that she didn't need more than swiss cheese cause she was gonna slide though the holes. Oh and hold the mustard please....

Excellent post. Excellent points detailed just enough so each is clear. ITA and did I say Excellent Post with the Swiss cheese holes&all
{which BTW ITA That all Terri thought she needed was a swiss cheese alibi, besides they weren't gonna be questioning her, Lawd no! The school would be up to their eyeballs in questions but NOT TERRI!

 

[nonfictionrocks]

No, sorry I do not believe that she murdered her stepson in cold blood... We might find out that there really was an unidentified male hanging around that morning. And what then ???

BBM

ITA liz.

LE has said it before, an "isolated incident", no need for parents and the community to panic:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=365"]http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=365[/ame]

There are a couple of weeks left until school starts again - LE, the school and the school board have no other choice but to try and put parents at ease by revealing something of "substance". I hope nobody is let down by what they will "announce" tomorrow but I am betting that my farm is safe and I assume that we will learn nothing new or concrete and will receive a lot more of the typical "no comment" answers we have grown accustom to hearing. JMO

 

[Calliope]

BBM

I doubt it. When LE resorts to questionnaires over two months after the fact requesting information and help from the general public, I am left with the deduction that their investigative efforts haven't produced that evidence.

So, my deductions are thus:

After conducting hundreds of interviews of Skyline staff, students, and parents, LE could not find a single witness who saw Kyron leave with Terri.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure of Terri's exact whereabouts at specific times on the day of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure of Dede's exact whereabouts at specific times on the day of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure if Terri Horman and Dede Spicher were together the morning of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE either revealed or recently learned that witnesses saw a second individual inside the Horman white truck on the morning of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE has been unable to identify the person seen inside the white truck on June 4.

IMHO, if they had verification of these facts, the questionnaires would be unnecessary.

And, also IMHO, if there were witnesses who saw Kyron leaving with Terri on June 4, she would've been arrested by now.

Add to that what someone (was it you?) brought up on another thread:

They aren't even sure of Kyron's movements within the school before he went missing.

 

[For The Kids]

Maybe there really was a male chaperone or someone walking or seen with them and she is not lying.I hope LE is really looking into seeing if there was and if anyone else saw this.It's a good lead.

Actually its not a good lead. The police have said Terri was the last person to see Terri. Not any mystery chaperones or any kids he supposedly had with him.

 

[kathryann]

MMC = Zenaida Fernandez Gonalez - I just had to say that, seems to me that people come up with the strangest explanations and how similar these two cases seem to be, at least to me. Maybe the same type of narcisstic personalities where these women feel they are smarter than the rest of us. I'm not saying that I think TH is guilty or not, I simply don't know, but I will say that this seems really fishy to me.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

No, sorry I do not believe that she murdered her stepson in cold blood... We might find out that there really was an unidentified male hanging around that morning. And what then ???

Thank you Liz. I understand what you are saying and of course I respect your opinion. I never said she killed anyone in cold blood? (I wanted to clear that up)


IMOO. A stranger hanging around that morning that was supposed to be a mystery male chaperone but was not? Then that should of been investigated and honestly I am very sure they heard this and ruled it out a long time ago.

If in my opinion only, if they didn't rule it out or couldn't rule it out then the following would or should occur:

The photograph and flyers should of had a picture and or a drawing of that said individual. It should be splashed all over the news. It should be on highway billboards. A artist scetch should be on the FBI website and at the post office. This is important enough for her (TH) to mention it and that he was with two little girls? A possiable suspect, are the two other girls in danger? I think that would be taken seriously!

Amber alert should of been utilized as a suspect or person of interest to the investigation to seek more information would have been sought.

FBI, LE and all the several other investigators and specialists should of told them that of course...IF this were true.


Additionally:

Also, IMHO if I were TH and I knew this information? I would of already utilized my opportunity to use the press to share this information instead of refusing to comment at all (this would of been free) and opportunity exisisted many times before the obtaining her lawyer.

Heck I would of whispered it to the FBI people that were there before the press confrences, get me a stetch artist...get me a victem specialist..get me someone that would find the person or persons responsiable!

I am sure that I would of hired a private investigator or request my lawyer to FIND this man because I am innocent (provided he exsists).

Two flyers came out with photographs and none of them of this Male Chaperone from any source.

IMOO, MHOO,
Respectfully,
Angel

 

[BeanE]

Actually its not a good lead. The police have said Terri was the last person to see Terri. Not any mystery chaperones or any kids he supposedly had with him.

Well, people keep saying over and over and over how LE lies to the public as part of all these schemes they set up to trap perps, put pressure on them, etc etc etc. I'm almost starting to believe it. So maybe LE lied when they said Terri was the last known person to see Kyron before he disappeared as part of one of those secret schemes.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Well, people keep saying over and over and over how LE lies to the public as part of all these schemes they set up to trap perps, put pressure on them, etc etc etc. I'm almost starting to believe it. So maybe LE lied when they said Terri was the last known person to see Kyron before he disappeared as part of one of those secret schemes.

Respectfully would that mean that the FBI was in on that? Because they would have to be right? There are multiple agencies involved in this case as it is reported. LE isn't the only pony in the show. IMO if they were then I guess I could see them playing a ploy of here is the public pressure while a potential suspect wonders around puting other children at risk?

Because of the above reasons:

If there are other individuals proven to be last seen with him and evidence is ignored to keep a farce or theory.. I will be outraged that that persons photo, drawing or description isn't on the FBI listing for Missing and Endangered Child poster for K and that the community and our children are at risk knowingly!

 

[Noway]

I think Terri is saying someone told her something (rumor, gossip) about a man who seemed to be taking one of the groups around and that Kyron was with him. Whether true, partially true, or entirely fabricated, who knows. Maybe LE does. But I don't think she just came up with it on her own, that early on, unless, as I have thought possible all along, something happened by accident with Kyron that day and she was trying to cover up in desperation mode. I still think this is possible.

My thought was if Kyron either decided he wanted to go with Terri for the day or he followed her out to ask her something or other and she finally agreed (maybe he wanted to skip the dreaded talent show) and then once in the car, he made some remark about how he could not wait to see his Mom (Desiree) that night, for example, and she walloped him...either on the road nearby while driving or elsewhere...and then it all became a panic to cover up when she realized he was not waking up...that sort of thing. I could see her wanting Dede's help and all of the lies, etc...just a theory, and only because a planned thing seems too bizarre even for this case.

BBM

How is this an "accident"?

ETA
I think you're saying that hitting him (if that is what happened) was intentional but killing him as a result of that (if that is what happened) was an accident.

 

[carbuff]

BBM

How is this an "accident"?

In the sense that she didn't intend to kill him. It wasn't planned.

Not saying I necessarily agree, but the situation seems plausible.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

In the sense that she didn't intend to kill him. It wasn't planned.

Not saying I necessarily agree, but the situation seems plausible.

Too many of these scenarios we've all been discussing over the last couple of months seem plausible. Here's to hoping that today's PC will narrow those down a bit.

:toastred:

 

[BeanE]

BBM

I doubt it. When LE resorts to questionnaires over two months after the fact requesting information and help from the general public, I am left with the deduction that their investigative efforts haven't produced that evidence.

So, my deductions are thus:

After conducting hundreds of interviews of Skyline staff, students, and parents, LE could not find a single witness who saw Kyron leave with Terri.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure of Terri's exact whereabouts at specific times on the day of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure of Dede's exact whereabouts at specific times on the day of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE is unsure if Terri Horman and Dede Spicher were together the morning of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE either revealed or recently learned that witnesses saw a second individual inside the Horman white truck on the morning of June 4.

Two months after the fact, LE has been unable to identify the person seen inside the white truck on June 4.

IMHO, if they had verification of these facts, the questionnaires would be unnecessary.

And, also IMHO, if there were witnesses who saw Kyron leaving with Terri on June 4, she would've been arrested by now.

Excellent post, cypress. Thanks so much for putting all that together, and so clearly.

:blowkiss:

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Actually its not a good lead. The police have said Terri was the last person to see Terri. Not any mystery chaperones or any kids he supposedly had with him.

Actually it is a very good lead and ALL leads need to be looked into.We do not know what happened.I believe there is actually no way Terri was the last person to see Kyron in this school that morning.There was just too many people and kids there that morning.