Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #24

[SleuthyGal]

Now to confuse the issue a little more...let's take this a step further!

{snip}

BC#178…10:00 to 10:30 HP calls and I tell her Nancy is not home yet..Probably getting COFFEE

BC #179….states between 10:45 and 11:00 JA called. I told her Nancy was running about an hour late, maybe getting COFFEE

He tells JA she is running about an hour late…did he expect her home @ 10:00?
Did BC ever state he called or stopped by JJ?

Why then did he have tennis plans and postpone them at 9:15 if he knew she was to be gone to approx 10am per his affidavit and what he told JA?
Where is this tennis partner he was to play tennis with?

He literally has his times so messed up and what he says he said none of it matches! At this point he has himself confused without even seeing what he had just stated in his own affidavit.

Yes, he has himself and everyone else confused I think. Certainly me! LOL. Obviously I think he didn't 'expect her home' at any time, ever again.

I think he SAID she was 'running an hour late' as a way of buying more time with the friends who called and I'm not sure if he was actually counting the hours in his head and realizing that he was, in essence, saying that Nancy had already been 'out running' for 3 to 4 hrs and I'm sure he wasn't expecting to have to tell L.E. that she left home around 7am. BTW, THIS is why I don't believe he KNEW about the plans she had to paint at JA's starting at 8am. Wouldn't he have realized that JA would CALL HIM when Nancy failed to show...at least eventually that morning? Did he think that JA would not notice or care that NC bailed on their plans and just let it go and not follow-up? If yes, he didn't know JA very well and/or simply didn't think any of this through. (more proof of lack of planning which puts another checkmark in the 'heat-of-the-moment' murder scenario).

I'm curious WHAT was going on in that brain of his because the timeline is ALWAYS something LE nails down hour-by-hour if possible, and they further cross-reference it with each involved person's activities, movements, calls, etc. But yes you've nailed an important detail: he tells 2 separate NC friends that she is 'probably getting coffee' and when he goes to search he does not search JJ (or at least doesn't say he did).

So, in regards to 'the coffee excuse' he's screwed up on the following; let's review:

1. Tells TWO separate friends that NC is 'probably/maybe getting coffee' and that's the reason she's 'running about an hour late,' 3 - 4 hours after she 'left to go jogging.'

2. KNOWS and TELLS LE as well as puts it in affidavit that NC runs WITHOUT cell phone, or any money or wallet or anything (but a stick of gum)....therefore the logical inference is she would not be able to purchase coffee even if she wanted to (unless 'Carrie the running partner' who had no plans w/Nancy, ran with money and bought her some coffee).

3. When he's out searching he does NOT go to JJ (her fave coffee place) to inquire if she was there at any point that morning.

So 'Nancy probably out getting coffee' = really stupid made up excuse AND it's so stupid he didn't even pretend to look for her at JJ when he was out 'searching.' (and believe me, if he had made a visit to JJ to inquire, he would have said so in his affidavit).

BONEHEADED maneuver. I rate that a -1 on the 'setting the timeline' scale. (The East German judge was not impressed. The Russian judge threw their scorecards down in disgust, and the Romanian judge is still scratching his head).

To put it in terms he would understand: it's like he released a product that has a section of software code that calls out another area of the code and then when the software instruction goes out to find it's 'call,' there's nothing there but a blank line....and for some reason the code was never QA'd, and it was put into production and sent out to customers.

REALLY bad form in both software engineering AND murder timeline planning. Only one will end in a prison term though. :wink:

 

[EntreNous]

Clever girls!!!! You ladies make me proud to say I'm a member at WebSleuths!!!

 

[momto3kids]

RED is my response..

{snipped}

I think he SAID she was 'running an hour late' as a way of buying more time with the friends who called and I'm not sure if he was actually counting the hours in his head and realizing that he was, in essence, saying that Nancy had already been 'out running' for 3 to 4 hrs and I'm sure he wasn't expecting to have to tell L.E. that she left home around 7am. Remember he told FOX she left around 6:30, another srew up!

Wouldn't he have realized that JA would CALL HIM when Nancy failed to show...at least eventually that morning? Yes, and that is the reason he had her purse in the car, to show her intentions to leave when she got home.

Did he think that JA would not notice or care that NC bailed on their plans and just let it go and not follow-up? This is why IMO he killed her soon after she got home from the BBQ and had time to try to cover his tracks. He knew JA would be calling.


So, in regards to 'the coffee excuse' he's screwed up on the following; let's review:


KNOWS and TELLS LE as well as puts it in affidavit that NC runs WITHOUT cell phone, or any money or wallet or anything (but a stick of gum)....therefore the logical inference is she would not be able to purchase coffee even if she wanted to (unless 'Carrie the running partner' who had no plans w/Nancy, ran with money and bought her some coffee).


So 'Nancy probably out getting coffee' = really stupid made up excuse AND it's so stupid he didn't even pretend to look for her at JJ when he was out 'searching.' (and believe me, if he had made a visit to JJ to inquire, he would have said so in his affidavit).

BINGO

This is one area BC has backed himself into a corner with his own timeline and not being consistent.
Weren't we told LE was on Holly Springs Road at 6-9am handing out fliers? IMO it shows LE expanded the 7am just because he is telling so many different times, IE...Fox news 6:30 and HP @ 10am states NC is running late. Yes, he states he went to HT @ 6am, so they are also looking for someone to identify the sedan for possible time of dumping her body. IMO which was done much sooner.

 

[momto3kids]

BTW, THIS is why I don't believe he KNEW about the plans she had to paint at JA's starting at 8am.
:wink:

I do believe he knew about the painting....BC already knew she had been painting or was planning on doing it that week because a number of friends put this in their affidavits. NC had communicated with him at some time about the painting or he wouldn't have any knowledge of this to withhold her money.

This is also the week she asked the Morwick's if BC could join them for supper. He did join her at the BBQ. She was attempting to be civil to him even after she had her allowance withheld and she had come home from HH to his filth.


The 'hate mode' term was used when she returned to the BBQ . If she went home with him to put the girls to bed from the BBQ, which is after she had talked back to him in front of other guests, this is NOT acceptable to a person like BC. She tried all week to be civil and Friday nite she went to the house to TRY to discuss it but he was so furious with what she had just done at the BBQ, but this was the final straw in his opinion.

She sat and talked an hour and a half to one person? She was definitely upset for some particular reason later when she returned to DD that night when all the friends were up and mingling and she sat and talked about BC that long to ONE person.

What did he say or threaten Friday night? What happened for her to out of the blue on Friday night to say "HATE MODE" after she returned? It's not they hadn't been speaking to each other that week, just opposite, they were trying to do family things together.

Affidavits………
JF #10…..on July 6th once BC confirmed NC was receiving $$ from somewhere else he denied her the $300 she was to get on Sunday July 6th. He told her she didn't need any money now that she was getting it from somewhere else.

TH #11…..spoke with NC July 11th @3:40. NC was extremely upset with BC. When she asked him that week for money he said since she had made petty cash from a friend for painting that she could use that money for groceries and gas for the week.

HP#12i…The week before she was killed she had done some painting for JA to make some extra money for herself and BC learned of this and told NC he wasn't giving her any money because she already had made some.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Then if true that he knew about the 8am plans he sure did some piss poor planning. Although perhaps there is nothing that he could have done or said to assuage her fears and concern. She is "the key" to the case because through her worry and resultant calls to both BC and then 911, she established the timeline constraint that is now plaguing BC. {high fives, JA!}

 

[momto3kids]

Then if true that he knew about the 8am plans he sure did some piss poor planning. Although perhaps there is nothing that he could have done or said to assuage her fears and concern. She is "the key" to the case because through her worry and resultant calls to both BC and then 911, she established the timeline constraint that is now plaguing BC. {high fives, JA!}

This is why the LE and JA jumped to action...nothing made any sense to them. Remember the LE was at HT prior to early noon on Sunday the 13th. They could have gone late Saturday nite or early Sunday morning when management would still be there to find the video's LE needed.

This is exactly how someone who commits murder IMO gets themself caught, no consistency with their story or timeline. If like me, NC could have said between 8 & 9 giving herself a time span in case she did go jogging and if she was planning on taking the girls. Even though JA stated 8am that might have been the earliest NC said she could possibly be there. Also JA called at 9:25, not 8:25 checking where NC was at the time. BC also told FOX 6:30 which gives NC 30 more minutes to jog.

I agree, I have always said JA holds the key to this case, since NC is no longer here and BC LIES!! JA stuck her neck out for her best friend instead of thinking, "I don't want to get involved and what he might do to me if I do!" I am sure it is NO bed of roses for her, but someone had to step forward. JA needs to be commended for doing this!

 

[reddress58]

If BC killed Nancy in a fit of rage, that anger most likely had been escalating over several days before her life ended. There is one point of tension that seems to stand out most in all her friends’ affidavits: Nancy’s painting for money. I say point of tension, because both were angry with each other over the matter.

Excerpt from Jennifer Fetterolf’s affidavit. # 10:

“When I saw her on Tuesday, July 8th she told me how angry Brad was [my bolding] because she was helping her friend Jessica paint.”

Excerpt from Diana Duncan’s affidavit #16:

“At our house on Friday, July 11th, Nancy told me that she was very angry [my bolding] with Brad because he had cut off her allowance because she had made a little money painting.

Mto3k, I do think Brad knew she was going to continue painting, but I’m not convinced he knew exactly what day and/or what time her plans with JA were made for. My question is: Why would HE be angry? Her painting had nothing to do with him and would actually keep her from asking for money more often.

Jennifer continues in #10 of her affidavit:

“She told Brad that she was helping Jessica paint so she could earn extra money for food for the girls. [my bolding] Once he confirmed that she was receiving money from somewhere else he denied her the $300 she was to get on Sunday, July 6th and told her she didn’t need any money now that she was getting it from somewhere else.”

I think here lies the answer to my question: Nancy told other people –at least the Adams as far as he knew- that Brad did not provide food for his children. Think of how embarrassed and humiliated a self-serving Narcissist who wants the whole world to know how successful he is would be. Your wife telling mutual friends you would not provide food for your children could be that proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. Especially if he found out she was going to continue painting making him look even more the creep. Maybe he thought that by taking away her weekly allowance (punishment/control) she would beg for the money back, stop painting and put him back into good graces with the Adams. She refuses to stop. (his loss of control over her)

We have no idea if Brad knew Nancy told friends the details of their marital woes…if anything. I doubt with his swift rise to anger she’d ever confess to him that others knew what went on behind their doors. He was humiliated that friends had discovered his affair; now they were being led to believe he didn’t provide. Destroying his image.

 

[whipporwill]

Does anyone have the link to Scott Heider's website? Thanks

 

[ncnative]

If BC killed Nancy in a fit of rage, that anger most likely had been escalating over several days before her life ended.

RKAB is one of the posters on this board. She has stated that she went with Brad Cooper for a time, before she broke up with him. She referred to her relationship with BC as Brad being and emotional roller coaster, made references to his mom and how the mom is in denial about Brad, who the mom seems to think can do no wrong.

She stated that BC is the kind of person who will simmer for a long time, building up until he lets go with explosive anger. She said this about him early on. You can find RKAB's posts and read them. I know she had some in #23, but also prior to and after that thread.

I wish RKAB would post more about how he was then compared to what we know from Nancy's friends and what Nancy told friends.

 

[reddress58]

If BC killed Nancy in a fit of rage, that anger most likely had been escalating over several days before her life ended.

RKAB is one of the posters on this board. She has stated that she went with Brad Cooper for a time, before she broke up with him. She referred to her relationship with BC as Brad being and emotional roller coaster, made references to his mom and how the mom is in denial about Brad, who the mom seems to think can do no wrong.

She stated that BC is the kind of person who will simmer for a long time, building up until he lets go with explosive anger. She said this about him early on. You can find RKAB's posts and read them. I know she had some in #23, but also prior to and after that thread.

I wish RKAB would post more about how he was then compared to what we know from Nancy's friends and what Nancy told friends.

Thanks! I read the ones from #23 recently but did not realize she was the friend who had dated him before. I looked for those posts when I first started reading, which was hard to find because I didn't know who I was looking for. Someone had just referenced a poster who had dated him/or knew him from Canada. I will go back to old threads and look for RKAB's earliest posts. Yes, I am very curious about what she has to say!

 

[ncnative]

Reddress, RKAB has been posting very interesting tidbits about her ex-"boyfriend", Brad Cooper. It's worth it to find all her posts and read them now. (I hope you are here, RKAB, because I need to PM you...).

I wish RKAB would get online so we could have an "Interview with RKAB about Brad Cooper as a Boyfriend". We need to learn more about how he treats women, from someone who should know.

RKAB is interested in keeping herself safe and as anonymous as she can. I'd love a question/answer session with her. Like: HOW did he act when he had simmered a while, then exploded? HOW was he controlling, if he was with you, RKAB? Tell us about his mom, dad, family.

I know his dad is vice pres of something at a Medicine Hat Community College. I saw a photo of Brad's dad there. Looks like Brad got his hairline from his dad.

Any and all trivia is welcomed, RKAB. I hope you will make an appearance.raying:

 

[EntreNous]

Reddress, RKAB has been posting very interesting tidbits about her ex-"boyfriend", Brad Cooper. It's worth it to find all her posts and read them now. (I hope you are here, RKAB, because I need to PM you...).

I wish RKAB would get online so we could have an "Interview with RKAB about Brad Cooper as a Boyfriend". We need to learn more about how he treats women, from someone who should know.

RKAB is interested in keeping herself safe and as anonymous as she can. I'd love a question/answer session with her. Like: HOW did he act when he had simmered a while, then exploded? HOW was he controlling, if he was with you, RKAB? Tell us about his mom, dad, family.

I know his dad is vice pres of something at a Medicine Hat Community College. I saw a photo of Brad's dad there. Looks like Brad got his hairline from his dad.

Any and all trivia is welcomed, RKAB. I hope you will make an appearance.raying:

NCN I really hope we can get an answer to that, I asked it a long time ago but never but I think it must have gotten lost in the shuffle.

 

[momto3kids]

Does anyone have the link to Scott Heider's website? Thanks

Here it is http://scottheiderexperience.blogspot.com/

BTW...welcome to WS!

 

[ncnative]

EntreNous, I can see where RKAB would be uneasy about posting much, because she knows that anyone who knew of their relationship could figure out who she is. I feel like she'd tell us more, except for that. Maybe she will speak out.nline::couch::wave:

 

[ncnative]

:Banane37::detective::idea:nline:ut em up::clap::behindbarMom2Three, have you gotten this case solved yet? I bet you have. Head on over to the Cary PD and give 'em what fer. Let them have the day off, because you have done lots of the work already. You and some of the others.

 

[momto3kids]

{snipped}My question is: Why would HE be angry?

RDD58....The straw that broke the camel's back was what she did at the party in front of other guests. God forbid, MR EGO, controller got embarrassed in front of other guests..

He is finally socializing with his family again and look what happened when he did....

DD#5... Four years ago BC stopped socializing with us. He would not come to parties, would not come out in the cul-de-sac or join NC when she came over to play or cook.

DD#17 ...At our house on Friday July 11th, Brad did not seem to understand what Katie wanted or needed-he complained he could not tell. Nancy, frustrated, told him to pay more attention to the signals, since Katie did not talk yet.

BC is hesitant to go even to the Morwick's the same week as the BBQ...
MM's affidavit….#9 & #10 Brad and Nancy came over to our house the Wednesday before Nancy disappeared. Nancy asked us if Brad could come to dinner. Because Nancy had told us about Brad his sleeping with Heather, I think he felt awkward coming around.

Look how he acted just 7 months earlier towards NC...
TS #2… first time I met NC and BC as dinner guests Dec 2007. Bella and Katie were misbehaving and BC slapped NC on the leg to indicate that she should resolved the situation rather than attend to it himself.


She obviously had tried all week to get along with him, or why have him join her at the Morwick's and the BBQ? I'd go alone if it were me, but she was still trying.

IMO this was his final straw with NC. She went home to put the girls to bed along with BC....they fought over what she said. She went back to the BBQ and talked her final hour and a half about being in the 'hate mode' again.

 

[momto3kids]

:Banane37::detective::idea:nline:ut em up::clap::behindbarMom2Three, have you gotten this case solved yet? I bet you have. Head on over to the Cary PD and give 'em what fer. Let them have the day off, because you have done lots of the work already. You and some of the others.

I just might have it all together!:clap:

I am just trying to figure if it is pre-med or not.

I took my husband to see the spot today and he said only 1 thing....BC sure was lucky to find this spot or he had been looking. And not looking 6 months ago say to build a Toll Bros home...home developements change to rapid in a short period of time. It has already changed in 6 weeks since NC was found.

BTW...today on a Sunday there was building going on. So I really do say there were laborers on Saturday the 12th as well.

Also, someone put a red, white & blue ribbon with a medal of joggers on it around the purple wreath. Also 2 large bouquets of flowers were also placed there recently...

 

[SleuthyGal]

I am just trying to figure if it is pre-med or not.

Legally I think they'll be able to make the premeditation argument because (as I learned from some case a long, long time ago), premeditation can happen in literally seconds before the person is killed. It's the knowledge of what the perp is doing could result in death, will result in death if they carry out the act(s), and they continue to go forward and do it. That 'decision' to continue with the act is where premeditation occurs.

As for preplanning the crime...that's a tougher one. I do think he was stewing over things in that 90 min before she got home. However, I can't make any conclusion about this element of the crime without knowing COD and reading the autopsy report.

 

[runr]

If you search for the picture of the running medal, you can figure out which race it is from, and therefore, probably which friend left it.

ETA: It's probably from one of her friends who ran the R&R yesterday. Wow. Powerful.

 

[chauncey7381]

Reddress!!!!! RING A DING DING DING DING!!!!

Greetings from Fig 8 Island, hope all are enjoying the long weekend, I know I am!

Redress---the painting, yes, you got it, it was the painting. War was on due to painting. See, I view JA as a good friend but also as a meddlesome one too. I would never ever in a bazillion years have NC over to paint if I knew it was PISSING her husband off, knowing that my friend was not receiving money because of the painting. NO WAY, see I don't know about some of you, but I would never intervene in someone elses marital woes.