Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #25

[raisincharlie]

Jump - BC had to have told them about the tennis match - MH's affidavit says he was contacted by LE either Saturday or Sunday about the tennis match. So LE knew before Nancy was even found.

 

[jumpstreet]

Jump - BC had to have told them about the tennis match - MH's affidavit says he was contacted by LE either Saturday or Sunday about the tennis match. So LE knew before Nancy was even found.

Yes, I caught that LE knew about the tennis... but to me it wasn't 100% clear that BC himself had told them about the tennis at that point. SG's question (and yours also I thought...), is why it wasn't mentioned in the CPD SW. My speculation was perhaps the SW only relayed the timeline that CPD had received from BC directly (to that point).

BC subsequently of course outlined the tennis plans in his custody affidavit, but perhaps prior to that, he didn't share those tennis plans with LE (and therefore, they didn't include that in the SW affidavit (even though they knew about the tennis plans (or at least knew that MH had stated as much))). (wow...too many parenthesis there!)

Does that make sense? Otherwise, any thoughts on why CPD would not have put the tennis plans in the SW timeline?

 

[Anderson]

Yeah, agreed. When I "read between the lines", it seems there was a subtle (or not so much) theme, that... JA had motive (jealousy), and that JA was manipulating others (after the fact) to gang up on BC. That was my take on some of the "between the lines" implications there.

[ Not saying any of it is FACT of course... just saying, that's what I was gleaning he was "getting at" ]

Maybe his point is nothing in all of it... to me, it was implicating she could have been involved.

I have a couple of questions:

Where was MH when he "heard" JA say that NC was supposed to paint with her that morning? He states that he heard her say this the morning that NC disappeared. Wasn't he waiting for BC in the morning to play tennis and then he had a game at 11? Was he over at JA's house instead (I gather they were neighbors), since BC couldn't make it. This is confusing.

Why didn't MH weigh in with all this information in the first set of affidavits? Was he afraid that he would be implicated in the murder, or was he asked not to talk about it for some reason?

 

[jumpstreet]

I have a couple of questions:

Where was MH when he "heard" JA say that NC was supposed to paint with her that morning? He states that he heard her say this the morning that NC disappeared. Wasn't he waiting for BC in the morning to play tennis and then he had a game at 11? Was he over at JA's house instead (I gather they were neighbors), since BC couldn't make it. This is confusing.

That's item #15 in his affidavit... you are right, it's confusing. I suppose if you change just the 2nd word in the statement from "morning" to "day" in that sentence, then it reads better (and would mean that this discussion took place later in the day but was in reference to the morning plans). It would make more sense if it was written that way, but who knows what it really means...

Why didn't MH weigh in with all this information in the first set of affidavits? Was he afraid that he would be implicated in the murder, or was he asked not to talk about it for some reason?

Good question.

 

[Anderson]

If you ask me it sounds like his stories are Brad's exaggerations. But, I am tired of the NC bashing, so I am bound to react that way.

Where was MH at around 6 to 7am? And why doesn't MH's wife speak for herself?

BTW, as far as I can tell, SH has taken the information pertaining to NC and BC off his website.

 

[Anderson]

That's item #15 in his affidavit... you are right, it's confusing. I suppose if you change just the 2nd word in the statement from "morning" to "day" in that sentence, then it reads better (and would mean that this discussion took place later in the day but was in reference to the morning plans). It would make more sense if it was written that way, but who knows what it really means...

But it is an affidavit. There should not be any ambiguity. Right?

 

[ncnative]

Someone asked how far from Brad's home is Mike Hiller's. The Hiller's neighborhood on Strathburg is directly across the street from Brad's back yard, crossing Lochmere Dr. to Strathburg. Only a minute to get from one to the other by car.

The Lochmere Swim and Tennis is maybe two minutes from Brad's house. I haven't timed it, but I live a bit nearer than he does.

Don't jump on me folks, but I have lots of the pics of Nancy with her friends in my head, online, etc. Nancy and Jessica were really tight from what I see in pics of them. Always hugging, (well, all of her friends were always in huggy pics with Nancy, so that's just how Nancy was, I guess) trips to this and that girlie getaway, some to other states, LOTS of drinking going on in pics...I could swear that Jessica, Clea and Nancy were glued together. Now, I'm just not that huggy all the time, but maybe some people are. Nor do I like to spend that much time with friends and neighbors, but that's just me. I crave solitude.

But, maybe, and it's a big maybe...maybe there was someone in the group who had it going on with Nancy. I'm thinking male or female. That's only a big fat guess. And, something in my gut saying this. I've always said that there's more than we know going on here, and lots more to come out of the closet. Still, BC is my main suspect for Nancy's murderer.

 

[ncnative]

No, Jessica A. does not live in the same development as M. Hiller. They are not neighbors, for you who asked (Anderson).

 

[SleuthyGal]

Thanks NCN. It was me who asked how far apart the Hiller house, the Cooper house and the tennis courts are from each other.

Regarding the use of Nancy's cell phone that Sat. morning (6:40am). Why would the police think that someone else might have (or had to have) used it to make a call to Brad's cell phone? In one of our theories we have him with both cell phones, making a call from her phone to his, right before he goes into HT. This is assuming that only 1 cell phone tower covers the areas of the Cooper house and HT. Yet the cops are looking for someone else having used the phone to help establish an alibi. I wonder what technical info they obtained that would make them believe that 1 person (Brad in this case) couldn't have simply had possession of both phones and used one to call the other? Any techies in cell tower pinging here with us?

 

[raisincharlie]

Yes, I caught that LE knew about the tennis... but to me it wasn't 100% clear that BC himself had told them about the tennis at that point. SG's question (and yours also I thought...), is why it wasn't mentioned in the CPD SW. My speculation was perhaps the SW only relayed the timeline that CPD had received from BC directly (to that point).

BC subsequently of course outlined the tennis plans in his custody affidavit, but perhaps prior to that, he didn't share those tennis plans with LE (and therefore, they didn't include that in the SW affidavit (even though they knew about the tennis plans (or at least knew that MH had stated as much))). (wow...too many parenthesis there!)

Does that make sense? Otherwise, any thoughts on why CPD would not have put the tennis plans in the SW timeline?

The best explanation is to remember the reason for the affidavit for probable cause - it does not require everything gathered, only such information that would allow a judge to determine if there is a probability that evidence might be found at the location specified. I can't see how canceled tennis plans would sway a judge that evidence may or may not be found. The fours hours of cleaning seems more likely, if you follow me.

 

[Anderson]

Someone asked how far from Brad's home is Mike Hiller's. The Hiller's neighborhood on Strathburg is directly across the street from Brad's back yard, crossing Lochmere Dr. to Strathburg. Only a minute to get from one to the other by car.

The Lochmere Swim and Tennis is maybe two minutes from Brad's house. I haven't timed it, but I live a bit nearer than he does.

Don't jump on me folks, but I have lots of the pics of Nancy with her friends in my head, online, etc. Nancy and Jessica were really tight from what I see in pics of them. Always hugging, (well, all of her friends were always in huggy pics with Nancy, so that's just how Nancy was, I guess) trips to this and that girlie getaway, some to other states, LOTS of drinking going on in pics...I could swear that Jessica, Clea and Nancy were glued together. Now, I'm just not that huggy all the time, but maybe some people are. Nor do I like to spend that much time with friends and neighbors, but that's just me. I crave solitude.

But, maybe, and it's a big maybe...maybe there was someone in the group who had it going on with Nancy. I'm thinking male or female. That's only a big fat guess. And, something in my gut saying this. I've always said that there's more than we know going on here, and lots more to come out of the closet. Still, BC is my main suspect for Nancy's murderer.

I agree NCN, there is a lot we don't know.

I imagine that LE would have determined where both JA and MH were at about 7am. I am wondering what time MH left the BBQ. Did he go hang out with Brad? Did MH's wife stay with NC and friends? How close was MH's wife with NC? And I imagine that the investigation has uncovered many of the answers. LE did seem to fixate on MH, though. And I am wondering why.

I am also wondering about the two conflicting plans (tennis/painting).

Lots of questions.

 

[Anderson]

No, Jessica A. does not live in the same development as M. Hiller. They are not neighbors, for you who asked (Anderson).

Thanks, so I wonder where MH heard JA discuss the painting plans the morning that NC disappeared.

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks NCN. It was me who asked how far apart the Hiller house, the Cooper house and the tennis courts are from each other.

Regarding the use of Nancy's cell phone that Sat. morning (6:40am). Why would the police think that someone else might have (or had to have) used it to make a call to Brad's cell phone? In one of our theories we have him with both cell phones, making a call from her phone to his, right before he goes into HT. This is assuming that only 1 cell phone tower covers the areas of the Cooper house and HT. Yet the cops are looking for someone else having used the phone to help establish an alibi. I wonder what technical info they obtained that would make them believe that 1 person (Brad in this case) couldn't have simply had possession of both phones and used one to call the other? Any techies in cell tower pinging here with us?

One has to wonder - or at least I do, given the timing of the allegations during the interview - 4 weeks ago, if by that time several interviews had been conducted and perhaps, - just perhaps, Mr. Hiller's wife could not confirm he was at home at 6:40am ? Seems to me if LE asked his wife where he was and she said home -why would they ask him about using Nancy's cell phone on that day at 6:40 am ? Given the proximity of his house to the Cooper house - the cell would ping the same tower from the Cooper home as it would from the Hiller home...

 

[jumpstreet]

The best explanation is to remember the reason for the affidavit for probable cause - it does not require everything gathered, only such information that would allow a judge to determine if there is a probability that evidence might be found at the location specified. I can't see how canceled tennis plans would sway a judge that evidence may or may not be found. The fours hours of cleaning seems more likely, if you follow me.

I think I do. So we're saying that LE may not have put the tennis plans in their SW timeline mostly because they didn't feel it was relevant to obtaining the warrant. They knew about it (for sure via MH, and possibly via BC also), but just omitted that piece from the SW since they didn't feel it was as critical to obtaining the warrant.

 

[SleuthyGal]

As for the whole he said/she said stuff that is part of the various affidavits...I think I'm going to have to ignore it in making my mind up about the murder case because I cannot determine who is telling the truth and who is not, who is exaggerating and who is not. And a lot of the assertions cannot be verified other than the fact that the Coopers had an unhappy marriage that was not improving at all and were heading towards divorce.

So, I'm going to have to focus only on the rest of the statements relating directly to the murder and timeline, and other facts that can be verified/ corroborated since I am unable to work with the other (he said/she said) info.

 

[jumpstreet]

But it is an affidavit. There should not be any ambiguity. Right?

I don't get the impression anyone is "proofreading" the affidavits to make sure all the wording is 'just so'. I think folks just write down what they think, then they sign it. Who knows what is meant by his statement there about the morning. It just wouldn't surprise me if the intention was for it to read "The day Nancy disappeared..."

 

[raisincharlie]

I think I do. So we're saying that LE may not have put the tennis plans in their SW timeline mostly because they didn't feel it was relevant to obtaining the warrant. They knew about it (for sure via MH, and possibly via BC also), but just omitted that piece from the SW since they didn't feel it was as critical to obtaining the warrant.

Seems that MH indicates LE knew about the tennis plans no later than Sunday as they spoke to him on the phone about it. It would not be included in the affidavit simply because it does not support a reason for evidence to be found. You got it.

 

[ncnative]

Sleuthy, J.Adam lives in the Cambridge subdivision in Cary, per real estate records. I see that they also own a small condo in Cary.ETA: I messed up with the location of Cambridge subdiv., so I deleted it. Sorry about that. Got it mixed up with another subdiv. near us that begins with a C. Have at me, folks.

 

[reddress58]

Sleuthy, J.Adam lives in the Cambridge subdivision in Cary, per real estate records. I see that they also own a small condo in Cary. The Cambridge subdivision backs up to the subdivision of Lochmere where the Hillers and the Morwicks live (and Scott Heider and his ex-wife Heather Metour USED to live). The Hillers and Morwicks live in the Strathburg address of Lochmere, and Heider used to live in there. Jessica Adam and Brett live in Cambridge, as I said, which sidles up to Strathburg addresses. All too close for comfort for me, but then some people love that sort of thing.

Cambridge does NOT back up to Stathburg. It is off Ten-Ten road toward Apex. Far away from Lochmere.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I don't get the impression anyone is "proofreading" the affidavits to make sure all the wording is 'just so'.

I'm STILL laughing at RKAB's description of reading Mrs. Cooper's (original) affidavit as though it was written by Tonto. OMG that was funny.