AZ Nancy Guthrie, 84, (mother of TODAY Show host Savannah Guthrie) missing - last seen in the Catalina foothills area on Jan 31, 2026

[raja]

What are those 41 minutes really telling us?

I’m sorry this is going to be a long post but I think there’s a problem with using the disconnects to determine how long the perp(s) may have been in the house. Gosh sometimes I wish we could just all get together and hash these things out in a real conversation but please keep reading and hear me out.

I’ve seen several people on here and in media reference this 41 minutes in the house - But I am not sure this conclusion is accurate. It’s the 41 minutes between 1:47 when the doorbell camera disconnects and 2:28 when the pacemaker disconnects. But that requires us to assume that the perp(s) entered the house when the doorbell camera disconnected and left the house with NG when the pacemaker disconnected. Neither of which are certain.

If the perp(s) entered the house from the front door then it could be reasonable to conclude the doorbell cam was disconnected as they came in the house. But we don’t know the point of entry. We’ve heard that the front door was locked but there were signs of a break in - but was the break in at the front door? I find it more likely that it was not and that the doorbell cam was removed by a perp who opened the front door from the inside and stood off camera in the doorway as he/she removed that camera and at some point it was disconnected. I’m not familiar with nest cams but with ring cams some are hardwired and some are battery operated. If the nest cam was hardwired then removing it would also disconnect it from the wifi but if battery operated another step would be required to disconnect it. Either way, I think it is a reasonable assumption that the person who removed it was already in the house when the doorbell cam was disconnected. Who knows for how long? In my mind the perp(s) could have entered NG’s home anytime after she left in that Uber to go to AG’s home at 5:32. That’s about 8 hours before the doorbell cam was disconnected. Could have also been 2 minutes before the doorbell cam was disconnected - could have been when it was disconnected - but could have been at any point in between. IMHO it is possible that someone was already in the home when NG returned from AG’s and the garage door was opened. But that might require there to have been at least a 2nd perp involved who brought a vehicle to the front of the house at some point to put NG since no vehicle was parked in the driveway when the family dropped her off.

And how do we know that NG left the house when the pacemaker disconnected from the Apple Watch? It’s blue tooth and the range is limited to 30-60 ft I think but can be further restricted by things like walls and refrigerators. My house is similar in size to NG’s and if I’m using a blue tooth headset in my office and step away from my phone to get some tea in the kitchen my device disconnects as soon as I get near the fridge. But going into another room and closing the door can also cause it to disconnect as can just being in a different part of the house. My point is that I don’t have to step outside the house for the blue tooth connection to be severed and neither did NG. So we really cannot know that she was taken out of the house when the pacemaker disconnected from the watch. That could be the case but is in no way certain. It’s also possible that the perp simply turned off the Bluetooth connection on the watch and it was disconnected with NG right next to it. And NG could have been in the house for minutes or hours after it was disconnected.

So I don’t think the disconnects can lead to a conclusion that the perp was in the house only 41 minutes or really narrows it down at all. In fact, I can think of one scenario where those disconnects might be saying the perp was not in the house for some or most of those 41 minutes at all. Remember that I said if the perp was in the house when NG returned from AG’s that it might mean a 2nd perp was involved and had to bring the car to the front of the house to put NG in it? What if instead a lone perp had parked down the road somewhere say a 20 or 30 minute walk away, waited inside the house for NG to return, at some point incapacitated her - restrained her or rendered her unconscious - and then removed the doorbell cam as he was coming out of the house via the front door to go get the car - leaving NG unable to move or call for help inside the house while he walked back to get the car and drive it back to the house - then returned and either moved NG far enough away from the watch to disconnect it or just shut off the blue tooth or did actually leave with her at that time causing it to disconnect? The perp could have been in the house for hours before or after that 41 minutes and actually have been out of the house retrieving a vehicle during most or all of that 41 minutes! Now this scenario would only be possible if that motion by the camera “near” the house at 2:12 was actually an animal and had nothing to do with the perp but someone pointed out earlier that the sheriff did acknowledge that was a possibility.

I do think those disconnects are important to the timeline - I just don’t think we know enough yet to know what they mean. I suspect that LE knows more than we do but am not sure they know yet just what those disconnects mean to the timeline either.

I think you are correct in that the assumption that the perp entered after he removed the front door camera could be wrong. He could have already been in the house. I also think it would have been more logical that the camera was removed while the perp was sort of exiting the front door. The garage door was opened for 2 minutes when NG was dropped off. Someone could have slipped into the garage then. Also if the exterior light was motion activated could it have been broken to hide the fact a car was brought in to take NG away. Just a thought

 

[Cassie P]

I don’t think it is weird that AG might not have accompanied. I wouldn’t go with my partner if he was dropping off one of my parents. He’s been around for decades, they would reach out to him as much or more than me. He checks on them more than I do. He might actually talk to them and see them more than I do.

I think most women would trust their husband to drive her mother a short distance away after dinner. Women might need to stay home if there are young children to care for. Or perhaps the woman wants to clean up after the dinner party, etc.

 

[Cassie P]

Or he had seen something of value to steal?

Yes all repair/service employees who have been to the home should be looked at.
They come to the home of an older woman and see pictures around the house of her famous daughter. They can look up the daughter's net worth. And begin to make a plan.

At least they should be ruled out.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Questions sorry there's too much to read.
They say they let her in via the garage.
Does she have a car? If so was it parked there,?
My own feeling is this is a home invasion gone wrong, there was a person seen in neighbors back yard?. Person broke in and thought no one was home maybe gone away , especially if he saw the car.
Nancy comes home and he hides for a bit trying to get out, and goes to bed and he accidentally wakes her up, they fight dhd gets hurt, or killed and he now has to dispose of her body.
This is why cameras seem to dlbd disabled after Nancy got home not before and why he pacemaker stopped.
Now he has death of a famous person mum on his hands so to buy time makes up a kidnap ransom.
So did she have a car, where was if parked if so?
Was Nancy evening clothes she wore accounted for, if not did she actually go to bed,? How do they know she was in bed?
Is area remote, of so what tyres marks are there? How did the person get there?
Why did the camera doorbell not pick anything up, before it was disconnected, I'm.assumjng person broke in through the back...of maybe just to blow my theory out of the water, the had a leg yo the back door and was already waiting.

"the had a leg yo the back door and was already waiting"

You lost me here

 

[justwannahelp]

I

the sheriif has just said that there were multiple cameras on the property. I guess that they were all Nests and the contents were overwritten.

i find it iinteresting those weren’t smashed. Perp only worried about the doorbell cam. So did the perp know she didn’t have a subscription?

 

[TMich6811]

I think most women would trust their husband to drive her mother a short distance away after dinner. Women might need to stay home if there are young children to care for. Or perhaps the woman wants to clean up after the dinner party, etc.

Or just a “gentlemanly” thing to do - it’s dark, I’ll take her

 

[TMich6811]

I

i find it iinteresting those weren’t smashed. Perp only worried about the doorbell cam. So did the perp know she didn’t have a subscription?

Or didn’t know they were there

 

[Inthedetails]

good morning everyone!

The watch ... I wear mine to bed, my husband does not. Our chargers are also in different spots in the house and not anywhere that someone would be able to just "guess". I charge mine during the day, hubby charges his at night.

IF the watch was on the charger, the note may have known a specific location of that charger.

I have been watching Paul Mauro on Fox, and he seems to think that they used some sort of Ransomware to send the email and that is why it can't be traced. (I wish they would post his clips with the information/opinions he keeps giving).

Like most people, I keep mine on the bedstand, but I can envision keeping it charged on a master bathroom counter, perhaps with medication. If charging in a place other than a nightstand and the ransom-note writer knew, that would be significant.

jmopinion

 

[turaj]

Maureen O'Connell said she has a theory but didn't want to say yet. But reading between the lines it sounded like she might agree with what AB has been reporting.

catching up on post reading here and CrimeDawg said exactly what I am thinking. Both of these ladies have an extensive background in this type of crime and when Maureen said that I think she agrees with AB. AB in her show yesterday did not back away at all from her theory. I am going with this theory or maybe someone that knows TC.

 

[turaj]

I saw that right away too. You could almost see her heart jumping out of her chest.

but under the circumstances mine would be too.

 

[Wsimm]

Has anyone else seen this? Savannah quotes a line from Silence of the Lambs. "Talk to her, and you'll see". Obviously this could be pattern recognition. I saw a theory that said maybe the kidnapper actually gave them this script and is forcing them to read it that way. Regardless, interesting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2019604548629733864

That gave me goosebumps…..very creepy!

 

[justwannahelp]

Or just a “gentlemanly” thing to do - it’s dark, I’ll take her

My uncle took my grandma home all the time. He was her son in law/not biological. He and my Aunt didn’t have children, so they’d have her over for dinner quite a bit, and he was the one to pick her up and bring her home. He checked on her a lot too. My Aunt has a busier work schedule than him though.

My point is son in laws bring elderly mother in laws home

 

[Inthedetails]

Or just a “gentlemanly” thing to do - it’s dark, I’ll take her

I agree. Plus it's a division of labor - I'll bring mom home and you can tidy up.

If this was normal behavior, then it's not a red flag. If the drive home was not the normal way things were done, then it is a red flag. We don't know.

FWIW, my husband liked helping with my mom and grandma and they absolutely adored him for it.

Having said that, I'm on the fence.

jmo

 

[TMich6811]

My uncle took my grandma home all the time. He was her son in law/not biological. He and my Aunt didn’t have children, so they’d have her over for dinner quite a bit, and he was the one to pick her up and bring her home. He checked on her a lot too. My Aunt has a busier work schedule than him though.

My point is son in laws bring elderly mother in laws home

I agree. They are a parent to them and some families are just that close that they are true parents

 

[Inthedetails]

That gave me goosebumps…..very creepy!

Makes me wonder if the ransom note quoted from that movie or others.

jmo

 

[Cassie P]

I can’t buy into the ransom thing.
I believe the person that took her may be the person that wrote the note but only did so as a red herring. I believe the cops think the same thing.

So you think the ransom note is part of the crime scene staging? To cover up a domestic or personal murder? Someone with an ax to grind, or who benefits from the victim's death?

Won't be the first time a domestic or personal murder is staged as a kidnapping. FBI is usually good at identifying fake ransom notes.

Have we seen the actual ransom note yet?

 

[TMich6811]

Has the SIL actually done anything to make him a suspect besides exist and take her home?

I feel like I’m greatly missing something

 

[steff13]

Could I pls ask for a source?

I have been reading this morning in a couple of different articles that one bandmate in particular has some criminal issues, but when I looked at the court records myself I couldn't find anything other than a traffic ticket. I just did a quick perusal not a thorough search so I could be off the mark. The outlets that I read the information in were not ones that I had ever heard of before other than, I think, Men's Health.

 

[SRWCF]

1. She is dropped off at 9:48 PM by T. It is not clear if Annie was part of the drop off. If it were my mom - I would go with my husband just because I am her daughter, and I feel responsible for her comfort and safety. If my partner or husband was being thrown under the bus in the media as the “last person to see her” - I would definitively confirm publicly I went with them. So my assumption is Annie did not go with her mom and T. Why would she let T blow in the wind as a suspect if she could just state she was with him and observed her mom go into the house? Or, does Annie feel tremendous guilt for not accompanying T, and it is a safer space for her to exist in the ambiguity of whether or not she was at the drop off?
2. My assumption is T dropped her off alone. What happened at dinner? Were people having wine? Did Nancy overstep and say something critical about T or Annie or their relationship? They have referred to T as Annie’s partner. I have not seen any evidence of marriage. The Guthrie family is religious. Perhaps marriage is a source of conflict in the family. My mom who lives 5 minutes from me is very opinionated at 82, and when she has had a few glasses of wine she has let loose all kinds of insults that are glossed over the next day. I am not saying Nancy may have been intoxicated- I am saying that families - especially ones that live in close proximity and spend a lot of time together - have occasion to see the interworkings of their children’s family life and may feel they have standing to opine about personal issues. Sometimes a parent cannot help butting in. It could be the dumbest thing - like - “why did your husband wear that tattered t-shirt to dinner?” I am using that as an example as something my mom just blurted out one night. She regretted saying it. Apologized. But on repeat it can fester.
3. T drops her at 9:48. What are the odds that a random person disables her Ring camera within a 4 hour window of T dropping her off? Was there a slight made at dinner that set T off. Did he get to a point where he was resentful of her omnipresence or tired of catering to her. It’s like care-giver fatigue where you can’t be present in your own life because someone else is dependent on you or your significant other is pressuring you to take on care giver responsibility you feel is a burden.
4. While there is blood and signs of foul play - this doesn’t look like a murder of passion. It is fairly ambiguous and unremarkable as far as murder crime scenes. It has the appearance the victim just evaporated. It’s hard to assign a motive where there is no overkill or obvious financial gain. Maybe a person just wanted her to quietly go away.

This is all total speculation on my part and based on my own family dynamics. I am just grasping for the Occom’s razor theory that doesn’t involve improbable ransom and celebrity obsession theories.

I am going to give everyone a window into Italian culture. I am an American living in the States, married 30+ years to an Italian. I lived in Italy for many years in the 1990's after meeting my husband. I also have Italian citizenship and speak the language. Italians, culturally, highly respect and are fiercely protective of children and the elderly. We here in the U.S. have no way to comprehend this unless you have lived in another country and experienced a culture where there is this kind of respect and protection. You know the old saying: you can understand a society best by how they treat their most vulnerable. We SUCK here on how we treat the very young and the elderly. Italy, however, is vastly different. I am saying all of this to convey that I don't think for one second AB's husband got frustrated with his MIL and somehow orchestrated her disappearance. I can promise you, in Italy, family is of the utmost importance even if there are issues. Italians don't back away from confrontation, but at the same time they love fiercely. And mothers / grandmothers are especially revered. It's an Italian / Catholic thing. And, no, it doesn't matter how long he has lived in the U.S. How one was raised and their core beliefs do not change. Of course, there may be outliers here and there, so I am speaking generally. Men in Italy are just made differently. There just isn't the pent up anger in them that we often see here.

 

[Cassie P]

Or just a “gentlemanly” thing to do - it’s dark, I’ll take her

Yes. Or a way for hubby to get out of doing dishes after a dinner party!
But yes could have helped out his wife who had just had a dinner party and was probably tired.