• #8,941
Something that has been bothering me this morning and very possible someone one has mentioned it in the many pages of this thread. During the instagram video of the siblings, when SG was talking about NG's need for medications, she said: "She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer." This was curious to me and very intentional sounding. Does NG take pain medication? Does someone in her orbit know this (family, caretakers, groundkeepers, etc)? I know there have been (unverified) rumors of a family member having a possible addiction problem (again - unverified!). It would not surprise me if this ended up having to do with drugs.
She could also be on Neurontin, which is commonly used to help nerve pain from diabetic neuropathy. Neuropathy could be the cause of the limited mobility. If she has diabetes, insulin could be the drug that she needs to stay alive.
 
  • #8,942
Anything is possible, but don't think anyone in the family is involved. A retired detective said that it could be someone associated who maybe has a grudge or felt slighted by the family over money somehow. Seems "grudge collectors" abound lately. JMO
 
  • #8,943
Couple of thoughts:
1) I think the person responsible is close (family, neighbor, someone who works in the house). This would be irrationally random otherwise. NG isn't a celebrity - even if her daughter is. She isn't wealthy in the manner that usual targets for ransom are and she doesn't live a lifestyle where she's neccessarily exposed (she's not followed by papparazi or the media). There is clearly some knowledge of the house and the fact that there is no subscription for the cameras. Any halfway intelligent person would know that even destroying a camera uploading to the cloud will show everything up to the destruction of the camera - so I think destroying the camera was to avoid anyone watching live (NG? AG?)
2) The perp has a normal M-F 9-5 job. Saturday night / early Sunday seems to fit this AND 2nd note comes out Friday afternoon. Something tells me, based on the timeline - the perp has someone at home expecting them. The times loosely fit a night out: I tell my spouse I'm headed out with the boys. Bars close at 2am. Plausable to say we were kicked out at 2:15am. This would be a valid arrival home closer to 3am if I claim I'm going to a bar across town, stopped for gas, cigarettes, whatever.
3) Blood spatter on porch (as many have pointed out) appears to be aspirated at the doorstep and drops thereafter. The doorstep looks like a small step down or, at least, a threshold to step over - with NG's limited mobility, this step over/down might cause her respiratory exertion resulting in either coughing or heavy exhale through her nose. I think it was a nose bleed - the drops are round and mouth bleeds just don't seem like they fall that way. It looks like she was walking slow on the porch, the drops are close together.
4) I also believe the ransom notes are a distraction or a layer added to cover the real intent. I won't go so far as to say she's no longer alive. But something about the family theory seems to check the boxes. Let's say, hypothethically, you have three children. One is a TV personality on national TV, one is a poet married to a school teacher, and one is a retired Air Force pilot. Would one of them be in a position to feel not as financially secure or not as happy with their lot in life as compared to their siblings? Hypothetically, let's say someone at 10pm calls their spouse letting them know they just dropped off their mom at home safely - but now is headed to the bar in downtown Tucson to meet up with friends - after all, it's saturday night. Same person grabs a few drinks and then heads to NG house. They know the cameras aren't saving any recordings, but disconnects the doorbell cam because it would alert NG or even AG when the doorbell is rung or perhaps it can be turned on remotely by NG is she hears forced entry. Entry is made. No signs of a real struggle because you are known to the NG - until you assault her or she falls. You help her to your car (or a car). You may or may not have a 2nd person helping you - but you do have a place you keep her (is it a storage unit? a partner's place?) Either way, you realize quickly you ARE the prime suspect. You cannot leave your own house now without scrutiny or surviellence by police. You cannot provide proof of life because you simply cannot go to where you are holding her without being found out by LE. Your motive was money - maybe you did intend to kill her and sobered up and realized that was stupid. Maybe the ransom idea then becomes what you go with - which explains waiting so long to send a ransom note. The family records a message on Instagram because they know you'll watch that. References are made to Silence of the Lambs - perhaps because they know it's probably you and that's meaningful to you. You see your wife struggle because you were "out" that night and arrived oddly late. Your brother in law also suspects you and his demeanor is flat because he's talking to you and you know it. You sister in law is full of emotion because she lives in NYC and isn't part of the everyday of the family dynamics in AZ. LE knows it's you and that's why they really haven't done extensive searches with cadaver dogs, sought that TX equestrian group, or had volunteers walking the desert.
With all that said - it could also be someone close to the family following the same script. I just don't believe the excess stuff LE is doing is really progressing the case. I think it might be to gather evidence to make the case stronger - but I think they already know who did it and they are either waiting for him to go to her OR they are negotiating with him in the background while maintaining "no suspect" for the public.
Well thought out. I'd add that there is one sibling that also is required to help mom on a weekly basis - that breeds resentment.
 
  • #8,944
Has it been disclosed whether or not it was a forced entry? I know the cameras were smashed and the backdoor was open, but didn't hear about the front door (other than Nancy's blood drops). TIA.
 
  • #8,945
i've wondered why an alarm system has never been mentioned. so sad if she had a system that wasn't being used/set. of course this could be more held back info.
Maybe she does, but LE doesn’t want to share that information yet.
 
  • #8,946
She could also be on Neurontin, which is commonly used to help nerve pain from diabetic neuropathy. Neuropathy could be the cause of the limited mobility. If she has diabetes, insulin could be the drug that she needs to stay alive.
great point and not something I'm knowledgeable about so thank you. Does Neurontin eliminate the need for additional pain medications due to discomfort from diabetic neuropathy? Or is it typically used in tandem with another pain med? Just curious. Would make me feel better if used solo because if its a drug related disappearance, I don't see it ending well.
 
  • #8,947
Can a person even move 7 milion around in less than a week with how much control the government now has on our banking? Heck I think if you play around with a measly 10 thousand you have to fill out forms. Maybe wealthy people are looked at differently and can move large amounts faster than some of us "little guys"? I just couldn't figure out how a kidnapper thinks you can just go into a bank and get 7 million or move 7 million into bitcoin in a couple days. Can it be done if they wanted it done?
 
  • #8,948
words used matter. and she's a writer. i asked my husband if someone wrote a white was collected what does that mean and he said that LE had it. words have meanings.
Yeah the word collected means just that - collected. I'm just going to wait to see if op will verify or whether it may be a mistake or a misunderstanding, wrong source or whatever. Not taking it as a given. Moo
 
  • #8,949
JMO - The FBI isn't a good ole' boy network using 35 year old profiling studies by far. They have continuously updated their methodologies and cutting edge technologies along with the rest of the world, if not ahead of them. They developed CODIS, AFIS way back when, and they're the lead Federal Agency in Cyber Security, Terrorism, etc.

The FBI has been instrumental in Genetic Genealogy Testing working with LE in conjunction with the forefront leaders like Othram and Parabon. The Golden State Killer was the first big break in GG, and the latest one I can think of off the top of my head was the Idaho Murderer who killed 4 College Students. Many, many old cold cases have been solved as well.

MOO
I think this was just in the context of how SG used the "Talk to her and you'll see" line from Silence of the Lambs in the family's first video response to the possible abductors. The thought amongst talking heads was wondering if it was either a coded message to kidnappers, or that SG was advised to use that line by the FBI.

And that if FBI advised it, it may have come from their profiling studies that they used way back in 1991 when the FBI consulted on the Silence of the Lambs movie script. Meaning they had advised using it in the movie script and advised it again to the Guthrie family in an attempt to humanize. (Not so much that the FBI hasn't updated their profiling in 35 years, just that they still thought that kind of phrase might be effective, etc.)
 
  • #8,950
You can follow a conversation if you click the up-arrow on any thread. That helps people make sense of things said when people are quoting posts.

View attachment 642253
Yes… I know that but a thumb on the ground is a little far fetched of a guess which is why I asked.
 
  • #8,951
HEY LOOK AT THIS VIDEO - IT'S 90 SECONDS. IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THIS YET, PLEASE WATCH! I NEED THE ATTENTION. I'M DESPERATE!!!
 
  • #8,952
There was blood involved here, and I've been confused because if they do have a suspect, then her blood should be in the car.

Perhaps though, it was the wrong car.

But that too of course.
As far as blood being in the car, when Patrick Frazee murdered Kelsey Berreth, no blood was ever found in his car. (He carried her out in a tote). Terrible case to be remembering. I can imagine scenarios where blood might not be found in a car, even if a victim is bleeding.
 
  • #8,953
Can a person even move 7 milion around in less than a week with how much control the government now has on our banking? Heck I think if you play around with a measly 10 thousand you have to fill out forms. Maybe wealthy people are looked at differently and can move large amounts faster than some of us "little guys"? I just couldn't figure out how a kidnapper thinks you can just go into a bank and get 7 million or move 7 million into bitcoin in a couple days. Can it be done if they wanted it done?
Part of the appeal of bitcoin for some is that it bypasses all that. As far as the family paying it, if they have it, the transaction wouldn't be tough.
 
  • #8,954
Thanks for pointing this out! The timeline released by PCSO says the camera detected a "person" but Nanos did note in a follow-up question at the presser that it is possible an animal triggered the alert, so I've updated the timeline to clarify that.
Perhaps even Nancy going to answer the door?
 
  • #8,955
Huh? AJ: "As of this morning they have collected the white van" is totally different representation than "neighbors reported seeing a white van" Why is this so hard?

Can we just get a link? At the very least, there is certainly nothing wrong with posters requesting one. Stop beating people up who just want verified facts.

And your statements re: DT are just your opinion. If you don't mind, please follow WS rules: unless you have a link to support what you are claiming to be fact, please indicate that it is just your opinion (IMO, MOO, JMO). TIA

Jmo

I think the best course here would be to assume AJ is telling the truth and that she will return later to confirm, or if she misspoke, to clarify.

So assuming it is true, what does the retention of a white van by LE, with our understanding that a neighbor of NG reported a suspicious white van in the neighborhood, suggest?
 
  • #8,956
There is a driveway that leads to the right side of the house where the garage is. Like most homes you can drive right up to the garage door. Nancy could have been let out of the car right near the garage door. She would then only need to walk a little ways to get inside of her garage, turn around and wave her SIL off, and then close the door. This taking a couple to a handful of minutes to achieve is doable.
True...I'm just thinking what my husband would do for my mother. Perhaps, NG was fiercely independent and didn't want to be treated as elderly and as an invalid??

JMO.
 
  • #8,957
Yeah the word collected means just that - collected. I'm just going to wait to see if op will verify or whether it may be a mistake or a misunderstanding, wrong source or whatever. Not taking it as a given. Moo
“Collected”, IMO is an odd choice. I’d expect “seized”, “impounded”.

Did she mean “collected into evidence”? I wonder if AJ was using shorthand for that term. Hmm. Time will tell.
 
  • #8,958
  • #8,959
Is there any way to get the distance from her car in the garage to her bedroom where the Apple charger is? Would it still pick up if it is located in the car?

Something that has been bothering me this morning and very possible someone one has mentioned it in the many pages of this thread. During the instagram video of the siblings, when SG was talking about NG's need for medications, she said: "She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer." This was curious to me and very intentional sounding. Does NG take pain medication? Does someone in her orbit know this (family, caretakers, groundkeepers, etc)? I know there have been (unverified) rumors of a family member having a possible addiction problem (again - unverified!). It would not surprise me if this ended up having to do with drugs.
I agree.
 
  • #8,960
I just don't see NG walking into her home and getting inside in the matter of two minutes unless she was using a "hurry cane," and Tommaso dropped her off and peeled wheels out of there...

IOW, this just doesn't make common sense to me. Anyone--unless you hate your MIL--is respectful and helpful. You are going to stop the car, open the garage door, walk her in at her pace, open the other door leading to the home (which might require a key??), go inside with her, ask her if there is anything that you can do for her before you leave...All that requires more than two minutes.

JMO.
Granted, I’m not 84, but this is a level of assistance I absolutely would not want from anyone, especially at 9:45 at night. Drop me in my driveway, watch me type in the code to get into my garage, wait for me to make it to the house door and wait until the garage shuts. Two minutes is plenty of time. My MIL is close to NG’s age and walks with a cane - this is also what she would want, and could certainly make it across the span of the garage in two minutes. NG is not helpless, and probably values her independence.
 
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