NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

[ljwf22]

I heard this on Good Morning America. When she reported it at age 17, the incident was three years old. It's unclear if any charges resulted. I can't imagine LE filing charges on something three years old unless there were hard facts.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I heard this on Good Morning America. When she reported it at age 17, the incident was three years old. It's unclear if any charges resulted. I can't imagine LE filing charges on something three years old unless there were hard facts.

But none of the men supposedly involved were charged. So how does that work?

 

[Garnan]

My guess is she came up with this story when she was 18 because she was in some kind of trouble. No charges were pursued, but the STORY WORKED for her. Whatever the problem was that she had then, it went away when she told that story, everybody felt sorry for her, and then it was dropped and she was off the hook.

She was in trouble this time because she was wasted and couldn't do the job she was paid for, going to get in trouble with the Agency, drunk and stoned, she remembers her "3 men gang raped me" story and tried it again. Only this time it won't be dropped and she won't get off the hook.

 

[nanandjim]

But none of the men supposedly involved were charged. So how does that work?

When I saw the news conference, it appeared that they were reading from an old report and really were not familiar with anything about the original charges. I am amazed that they held onto the paperwork for so long.

It sounded like the accuser went to the police station THREE years after the incident happened. She said that three AA guys beat her up and raped her. They told her to come back to the station with a chronology (timeline?) of what happened, but she never followed up. So, the case was never pursued.

Her relatives said that she didn't pursue it because she feared for her life. Isn't she is hiding because she fears for her life (again) in this case??

I don't know what is true, but I find it really strange that there were three guys that time and there are three guys this time. I'm inclined NOT to believe this woman and her version of the events.

I have begun to feel sorry for the young men involved in this case. Their reputations are ruined, not to mentioned the untold amount of money the parents are spending to defend them against these charges/accusations.

Have these boys had to suspend their studies because of this??

 

[Olivia77]

With the stats showing that many sexual assaults go unreported, and some get reported years later, why is it so strange that she reported one a few years after the alleged rape?

Maybe she was in counseling and they suggested she report it but she was too scared to follow through? Maybe one of her friends or family members found out about it and wanted her to tell and then she did and was legitimately afraid to follow through, or didn't feel emotionally strong enough? I know people who haven't told about sexual assaults until years later and they have gone so far as to talk to a lawyer, and then decide for whatever reason they aren't following through.

Since one of the boys was involved in a previous assault, the same reasoning could be applied to him. He assaulted someone once, so it would be likely that he'd so it again. It wasn't sexual the first time, but maybe that was just the beginning. So why is it more of a likelihood that she's a liar and he's been victimized by her accusations than the possibility that he's the type to assault someone...

Furthermore, the fact that she went into stripping (even though it wasn't full time), considered a part of the sex industry, is not uncommon for those who have been sexually abused. From obscenitycrimes.org:

"Damage to women which precedes working in the sex industry - Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. "

Personally, I think the defense is doing an excellent job of villifying her in the press and I am 50/50 on whether she is guilty of a false accusation or not. But it's playing out like many rape cases with accusations leveled against the accuser, which other women will see and decide it's just not worth it to report their own rape. The cycle continues!

ETA: had to add text to clarify

 

[indigomood]

Police Confirm Previous Rape Claim
On August the 18th 1996, Uh, we took a report from Uh, an alleged victim Uh, in reference to a Uh, an asault, a sexual assault, an assault on a female that occured four years prior to that date, that occured Uh, on June 1993. In the report, the alleged victim, Uh, stated to the reporting officers that there was an alleged assault taken place on Hillsboro St. here in Creedmore, Uh, where this Uh, assault was committed by three males, Uh, that they Uh repeatedly beat her and sexually assaulted her. And Uh, the reporting officer advised the victim to Uh, write a chronological report and a statement for the investigation and Uh, that's where the investigation stops...

 

[Jean]

Prosecutor in Duke Rape Case Breaks Silence (April 28, 2006)

Snips:

Reading a statement in an impromptu news conference, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong broke his silence, speaking about the Duke lacrosse case for the first time in weeks.

His subject: a 1996 police report that had surfaced Thursday describing allegations of a 1993 gang rape, filed by the accuser in the Duke lacrosse rape investigation.(More a link--long article)

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060424180809990005&cid=2194

 

[AdoraBlue]

Prosecutor in Duke Rape Case Breaks Silence (April 28, 2006)
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060424180809990005&cid=2194

More snips:

"The alleged victim's former husband, _______ _________ _______, told ABC News that he believed she had been raped in 1993. She and _______ were engaged at the time when the police report was filed were engaged at the time when the police report was filed."

"_______ was sympathetic to his former wife in an interview with Essence magazine. He said that he was happy with the indictments of lacrosse players Seligmann and Collin Finnerty because he was glad 'to see justice done.'"

This link actually prints the AV's former husband, where I have left blanks in the snips.

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

Have these boys had to suspend their studies because of this??

Yes..

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

Personally, I think the defense is doing an excellent job of villifying her in the press and I am 50/50 on whether she is guilty of a false accusation or not. But it's playing out like many rape cases with accusations leveled against the accuser, which other women will see and decide it's just not worth it to report their own rape. The cycle continues!

How have the defense attorneys villified her, exactly?

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

With the stats showing that many sexual assaults go unreported, and some get reported years later, why is it so strange that she reported one a few years after the alleged rape?

Maybe she was in counseling and they suggested she report it but she was too scared to follow through? Maybe one of her friends or family members found out about it and wanted her to tell and then she did and was legitimately afraid to follow through, or didn't feel emotionally strong enough? I know people who haven't told about sexual assaults until years later and they have gone so far as to talk to a lawyer, and then decide for whatever reason they aren't following through.

Since one of the boys was involved in a previous assault, the same reasoning could be applied to him. He assaulted someone once, so it would be likely that he'd so it again. It wasn't sexual the first time, but maybe that was just the beginning. So why is it more of a likelihood that she's a liar and he's been victimized by her accusations than the possibility that he's the type to assault someone...

Furthermore, the fact that she went into stripping (even though it wasn't full time), considered a part of the sex industry, is not uncommon for those who have been sexually abused. From obscenitycrimes.org:

"Damage to women which precedes working in the sex industry - Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. "

Personally, I think the defense is doing an excellent job of villifying her in the press and I am 50/50 on whether she is guilty of a false accusation or not. But it's playing out like many rape cases with accusations leveled against the accuser, which other women will see and decide it's just not worth it to report their own rape. The cycle continues!

ETA: had to add text to clarify

What's strange, and more than a little susupicous, is the exact same number of men involved in each incident.

 

[indigomood]

What's strange, and more than a little susupicous, is the exact same number of men involved in each incident.

I found that of interest as well...
I have not followed this case so I am not implying I discount/nor believe her allegations, only that my hinky meter is not completely at the level nor in full tilt.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Personally, I think the defense is doing an excellent job of villifying her in the press and I am 50/50 on whether she is guilty of a false accusation or not. But it's playing out like many rape cases with accusations leveled against the accuser, which other women will see and decide it's just not worth it to report their own rape. The cycle continues!

With all due respect, we don't even know her name, so how she could possibly be "villified" is beyond me. The young men who have been accused on the other hand, have had their photographs and their names splash across the front page of every publication in existence, have been suspended from school and will forever be suspect, whether they're ever proven guilty in a court of law or not. I'm not sure what happened to innocent until proven guilty, but these kids' now have to prove that they are innocent.

 

[Olivia77]

With all due respect, we don't even know her name, so how she could possibly be "villified" is beyond me. The young men who have been accused on the other hand, have had their photographs and their names splash across the front page of every publication in existence, have been suspended from school and will forever be suspect, whether they're ever proven guilty in a court of law or not. I'm not sure what happened to innocent until proven guilty, but these kids' now have to prove that they are innocent.

Hi Jeana - Long time no see! :blowkiss:

We may not know her name yet but we know more about her personal life than most other people! I'm sure her name will come out soon enough just like the girl who charged Kobe Bryant - and I believe it's a matter of time before her photos are slipped to the internet. This article shows what the defense attorneys have used to try to discredit her.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/lacrosse/2006-04-10-duke-dna-tests_x.htm

"Over the weekend, they told reporters that photos taken at the party show the woman was injured even before she arrived, and impaired, too. And while answering questions about their clients' legal troubles — about a third of the current team has been charged in recent years with public urination, underage possession of alcohol and disorderly conduct — they have suggested that the woman's own criminal past undermines her credibility.

They pointed to a June 2002 incident in which the alleged victim stole the taxi of a man to whom she was giving a lap dance at a Durham strip club. Court records say she led a sheriff's deputy on a winding chase at up to 70 mph, and tried to run him down as he approached the cab.

She pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts of larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and driving while impaired, and spent some weekends in jail.

The players' attorneys have also attacked the woman's statement to police that she and another dancer left the party in fear after the crowd became "excited and aggressive," returning only after one of the players apologized."

I agree she doesn't sound like a model citizen, but these examples are not ones of extortion or false accusations so I'm not sure how relevant they are to a rape case.

As for the boys being innocent until proven guilty, we question people who haven't even been formally charged all the time here and are constantly reminded not to attack the victim. I'm just trying to stay within those boundaries in my own post despite the fact I'm not sure which side I believe. I don't know why all this isn't saved for court anyway if each side is sooo confident they are right.

I have to admit the more I read the more my hinky-meter goes off like one of the other posters said, but I still like to give my two cents. It may or may not be right, but it's all I've got. :blushing:

 

[bulletgirl2002]

I don't think they did it. I think the woman got mad at the group about something (money, disrespect they showed her) and said "I'll show them". She may have been raped when she was a teen and drawn from these facts for her story. I also think the DA is wrong to try this in the press like he is doing. I guess he thinks it will win him the "black vote".

 

[nanandjim]

I don't think they did it. I think the woman got mad at the group about something (money, disrespect they showed her) and said "I'll show them". She may have been raped when she was a teen and drawn from these facts for her story. I also think the DA is wrong to try this in the press like he is doing. I guess he thinks it will win him the "black vote".

I agree with your post. I suspect that the DA "trying" this case in the press says that his case really isn't that strong and/or he has an ulterior motive...like his upcoming election...So sad for the two young men involved...

I heard on the radio that it was very noticeable that Al Sharpton hasn't jumped on the bandwagon, noting that he got burned years ago with the "Tawanna" incident.

 

[Sherlockmom]

I think that the biggest bad guy in all of this is Nifong. It seems to me that he seized on this case in order to help him win an election. This was turned into a race issue right from the get-go. Instead of waiting until he had all of his ducks in a row to press charges he whipped up public opinion and outrage and spent his time trying to manipulate things in his favor.


If he would have waited and did some investigating first he would have found out these things before the defense did and could have avoided all of this brouhaha, ruining these boy's lives and exploiting a woman who is obviously suffering from at least some mental illness.

I cannot seem to find anyone in this case that I would hold up as a role model. While some women may get involved in this type of activity because they were sexually abused I question the percentage quoted. It seems rather high and not all women abused get into stripping and prostitution. While past molestation or rape may explain (and I question this) some women's choices it does not excuse them from any consequences of those choices. We have no proof that she was ever molested as a child and we do not know if she has been raped in the past either. People do go into these professions just because they want to make a fast easy buck. They don't want to work at a fast food place to put themselves through college figuring they can make more turning a few tricks on the weekend or dancing in front of a bunch of drunk college age boys and taking their clothes off. While we used to call this being lazy now it seems you are just another victim. Makes those kids flipping burgers seem like real idiots doesn't it? While I'm not saying that she deserved to be raped I can't see where anyone would be surprised.

I believe that women have to take some of the responsibility in these types of situations for putting themselves at risk for this to happen. What did she expect? If she was doing this type of thing long enough something bad was bound to happen eventually.

The boys are disgusting for even hiring these women and must have alot of spare change to throw around to be able to waste their money on something like this. Although I feel sorry for them if they are innocent in the back of my mind the parent in me is thinking "Well, there are sometimes consequences when you make bad choices. Sometimes the consequences are really severe." Although disgusting behavior not surprising considering that they are young college boys with some money to spend. It seems that some of the team members have had run-ins with the law in the past and have engaged in behavior not always considered civil. They may have learned a really harsh lesson in all of this. It's too bad that the lesson will follow them around for the rest of their lives.

That all being said they don't deserve to be charged with a crime they didn't commit nor does the girl deserve to be raped for having low morals. However all of the circumstances so far as I'm concerned leave HUGE doubt as to the truthfullness of this girl's story.

This DA should lose his job over this but he won't. I doubt he'll lose the election either. This case isn't about rape. It's about race and class envy. Pure and simple. And this DA is using this to pander to a group of people he thinks will vote for him if he makes it an issue. And he will. And he will get away with it.In the meatime this girl isn't getting the help she needs, these boy's lives have been changed forever and the taxpayers are footing the bill for all of this nonsense.

It's happened before, it will happen again. This does remind me alot of the Tawana Brawley case which Al Sharpton also turned into a racial issue and he has never apologized for it. Lives were ruined over these false allegations yet Al Sharpton put on a suit and ran for President of the United States. He still earns money flapping his jaws on talk and news shows. Whenever I see him I mute the tv.

As the DA's case falls apart (after the election) you'll not hear another word about this and you'll never hear an apology out of him. The coach lost his job over this. Yet we won't hear a word about that either.

Sherlockmom

 

[BrendaStar]

Well said, Sherlockmom. I see this as "the perfect storm" whereas all of the negative ingredients put together resulted in this mess at Duke. It's a shame that this Nifong jumped the gun before all of the facts were in.

 

[ccoaster]

Well said, Sherlockmom. I see this as "the perfect storm" whereas all of the negative ingredients put together resulted in this mess at Duke. It's a shame that this Nifong jumped the gun before all of the facts were in.

I also agree. However, I have seen polls where Nifong is trailing Ms. Black, so there is always some hope that he does not win the election.

 

[evelyn24]

I think Nifong will lose.
I know there is no Republican running in the general election so the Democratic primary is essentially the election for the DA.

However, this is only the primary, he would still be in power until after the general election in the fall.
Goodness knows what other damage he can do until then.

From Nifong's statement released after the media found out about the accuser's first rape claim, he does not seem to be backing down.

we will see