NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

[Summerskye1]

Good points, Sherlockmom. I for one am SO sick of the race card being used to justify just about any kind of poor behavior in this country that I could scream. When are we going to put the past where it belongs, IN THE PAST, and move forwards as a society? What reasonable person thinks it's fair to falsely accuse, convict, and/or execute a white person today to avenge wrongs done over 50 years ago, when these kids were not even alive? And how, exactly, is that going to help us all get along? The OJ Simpson trial did enough damage to race relations in this country. Do we really have to go there again?

Let's not forget that it may be "difficult" for people belonging to minority groups to leave the "50-year-old" past "in the past where it belongs" when there's a young white college student screaming out his "thanks" to the young woman's grandfather for his nice cotton shirt.

 

[csds703]

In the mid 20th century, many acts of the worst kind of fiendish racism against blacks in the south, and elsewhere, were commited by the KKK or with the assistance of our 20th century courts/judges/juries.

The children, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandchildren etc., of many blacks, who were savagely abused, murdered or falsely convicted and executed, remain alive today.

As still waters run deep, horrendous childhood memories only die when death stops the replays.

This does not explain why she accused these boys of rape. They are from the North. Although, it would explain why the DA might be going forward even though RIGHT NOW it looks to be a false accusation.
I believe that she is motivated by rich white boys whose parents have money.

 

[Wudge]

This does not explain why she accused these boys of rape.

SNIP

Nor was it meant to.

The context of my saying: "The children, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandchildren etc., of many blacks, who were savagely abused, murdered or falsely convicted and executed, remain alive today.", was made in reference to black people who have seen horrid acts of racism and take a measure of revenge when they are seated in a jury box.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

>So when we discuss the Jim Crow laws and black people in general, this is one time that we all should be painted with that one big brush of generality of guilt.



Why should I be painted with a big brush of guilt? My father is of Polish ancestry. His ancestors were peasants. His family came here in the 1900's and they were virtually slaves in their own native land and I'm sure they never owned slaves here. My mother's ancestors were French Canadian, English and American Indian. They never owned slaves and were fur trappers, hunters and finally opened their own tool & die shop. Why should I be painted with any brush of guilt or owe black people anything?

My family's been here 300+ years (longer, if you count the Amerindian relatives) and only one of 'em had a slave. Who he had a kid by after his wife died, who ended up inheriting his fair share of the family estate after his dad died. So our reparations are done paid for, thank you.

 

[Bobbisangel]

It sure will be nice when this case goes to trial and we hear BOTH sides. From what has been said about the Pros he is a straight shooter and known to be a honest man. That is his reputation as a prosecutor. Just because he isn't laying all of his cards on the media table doesn't mean that he doesn't have any to play. For some reason he plans to go ahead with the prosecution of these two young men. I think it would be pretty foolish for him to do that if everything that the defense attorneys are saying is the truth.

 

[BhamMama]

My family's been here 300+ years (longer, if you count the Amerindian relatives) and only one of 'em had a slave. Who he had a kid by after his wife died, who ended up inheriting his fair share of the family estate after his dad died. So our reparations are done paid for, thank you.

Does no one read the three complete paragraphs before that statement and see what I was replying to?

Attention: No white person owes anyone anything! Good Grief! Not once did I say that! I was talking about the North sharing responsiblities with the South with due respect to upholding the Jim Crow Laws.

I could care less who owned who, that was then, this is now...sadly Jim Crow wasn't that long ago and yes, some folks today remember them, but I don't think a whole part of the nation carries that burden alone!

Never mind, I'll just delete it.

 

[csds703]

Nor was it meant to.

The context of my saying: "The children, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandchildren etc., of many blacks, who were savagely abused, murdered or falsely convicted and executed, remain alive today.", was made in reference to black people who have seen horrid acts of racism and take a measure of revenge when they are seated in a jury box.

A vicious cycle that nobody wins.
By the way, thanks for all that you have posted, I've learned alot.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>In the mid 20th century, many acts of the worst kind of fiendish racism against blacks in the south, and elsewhere, were commited by the KKK or with the assistance of our 20th century courts/judges/juries.

The children, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandchildren etc., of many blacks, who were savagely abused, murdered or falsely convicted and executed, remain alive today.

As still waters run deep, horrendous childhood memories only die when death stops the replays.<


Yes, I know I'm terribly concerned if there is a Jewish person sitting on a jury and someone of German ancestry is the accused.

And yet still today there are those that seek to entirely eliminate them as a race and kill them. I know everytime a Jewish person is arrested for a crime we hear about their ancestors being tortured and murdered in concentration camps. You can't really blame them if one of them goes off and robs a jewelry store. This is the reason why the Jews today continue to live in crime and poverty.

I wonder if those that are so entrenched in the slavery issue that is over 150 years gone in this country as as concerned when another Jewish child is blown up on a bus because of his race? Or if they are as concerned when a black woman in Darfur is raped, her husband murdered and her children living in camps because they have a corrupt government and they are the wrong shade of black? These are real cases of racism that are happening in the world now, today.

Living in the past, fostering racial hatred and living like a victim is what will keep you living in poverty and ignorance. Not some words issued by an idiot kid who hasn't grown up yet. There is nothing hold back anyone in the United States but themselves. This is the freest and greatest country in the world with more opportunity for all races than anywhere else. And our justice system wasn't based on the color of one's skin. It's not the system that is broke but the people who run the system. With the attitude that the black man are due their revenge or that it is understandable for a black person to go into a jury box already biased because of an accused person's skin color? Not a good endorsement for equal rights. If a Jewish person can sit in a jury box without wondering about the ancestry of the accused standing before them looking for revenge why cannot a black person?

Sherlockmom

 

[MSM]

Let's not forget that it may be "difficult" for people belonging to minority groups to leave the "50-year-old" past "in the past where it belongs" when there's a young white college student screaming out his "thanks" to the young woman's grandfather for his nice cotton shirt.

The appropriate response to this would be to criticize and censure the students for hate speech, which Duke likely has rules against, rather than to falsely accuse them of a crime and/or claim in the media that even if they are innocent of such a crime, it would make up for past injustices for them to be convicted anyway. Being a victim of racism does not give a person an automatic pass on all subsequent behavior.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Let's not forget that it may be "difficult" for people belonging to minority groups to leave the "50-year-old" past "in the past where it belongs" when there's a young white college student screaming out his "thanks" to the young woman's grandfather for his nice cotton shirt.

You're absolutely right about that.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

It sure will be nice when this case goes to trial and we hear BOTH sides. From what has been said about the Pros he is a straight shooter and known to be a honest man. That is his reputation as a prosecutor. Just because he isn't laying all of his cards on the media table doesn't mean that he doesn't have any to play. For some reason he plans to go ahead with the prosecution of these two young men. I think it would be pretty foolish for him to do that if everything that the defense attorneys are saying is the truth.

I think he must have some cards on the table, because the ones he's playing with right now won't get him anywhere.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Let's try to keep the "race" issue debate on this thread strictly in the context of how it relates to this case and not the entire history of slavery, ok?

 

[Wudge]

A vicious cycle that nobody wins.
By the way, thanks for all that you have posted, I've learned alot.

(salute)

 

[Wudge]

Let's try to keep the "race" issue debate on this thread strictly in the context of how it relates to this case and not the entire history of slavery, ok?

If this case does go to trial, the Jim Crow/KKK era of racism is certain to be spotlighted and spun over and over by the media. If it doesn't, well, as has been said, it is always nice to learn something in the process of case discussion.

It is probably safe to say that most of us are pretty tired of hearing about racism in America. I know I said that on the other thread. And I think the Horowitz article does a good job of explaining why that is; i.e., it is proven to work for blacks, Jews, etc., etc., and that, in itself, is bothersome, to say the least.

Nevertheless, no matter how this case turns out, one way or another, a decent part of this case's birth is almost certain to have racist roots (that can play both ways). Given that likely genesis, case segues are, basically, inevitable. And if I learn something or gain case or societal perspective, that is always beneficial.

But that is just my thought. Fortunately, I do not have the cat herding role here. (chuckle)

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

>In the mid 20th century, many acts of the worst kind of fiendish racism against blacks in the south, and elsewhere, were commited by the KKK or with the assistance of our 20th century courts/judges/juries.

The children, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandchildren etc., of many blacks, who were savagely abused, murdered or falsely convicted and executed, remain alive today.

As still waters run deep, horrendous childhood memories only die when death stops the replays.<


Yes, I know I'm terribly concerned if there is a Jewish person sitting on a jury and someone of German ancestry is the accused.

And yet still today there are those that seek to entirely eliminate them as a race and kill them. I know everytime a Jewish person is arrested for a crime we hear about their ancestors being tortured and murdered in concentration camps. You can't really blame them if one of them goes off and robs a jewelry store. This is the reason why the Jews today continue to live in crime and poverty.

I wonder if those that are so entrenched in the slavery issue that is over 150 years gone in this country as as concerned when another Jewish child is blown up on a bus because of his race? Or if they are as concerned when a black woman in Darfur is raped, her husband murdered and her children living in camps because they have a corrupt government and they are the wrong shade of black? These are real cases of racism that are happening in the world now, today.

Living in the past, fostering racial hatred and living like a victim is what will keep you living in poverty and ignorance. Not some words issued by an idiot kid who hasn't grown up yet. There is nothing hold back anyone in the United States but themselves. This is the freest and greatest country in the world with more opportunity for all races than anywhere else. And our justice system wasn't based on the color of one's skin. It's not the system that is broke but the people who run the system. With the attitude that the black man are due their revenge or that it is understandable for a black person to go into a jury box already biased because of an accused person's skin color? Not a good endorsement for equal rights. If a Jewish person can sit in a jury box without wondering about the ancestry of the accused standing before them looking for revenge why cannot a black person?

Sherlockmom

All the above is an example of how America is now old enough as a nation to start turning into the type of country all our ancestors busted to escape from. We've been around long enough to start holding what prove to be decade/generation/centuries-long grudges. Europe might not have had "black" people (which is how Americans tend to narrowly view racism) but they have centuries of genocide/oppression in their collective history, whether it's the purging of the French Hugenots, Russian Jews, The Nazis taking out the Jewish & Gypsy populations, Nonconformist Scots, the Catholic Irish, The Serb/Croats, the Roundheads vs. The Cavaliers, the Shapardic Jews, etc. etc. etc. The most extreme case is probably the Jihadists who keep bringing up The Crusades as a a sore spot! As for Africa and the Asian continents, the mind boggles when one contemplates the ethnic cleansings of the last century alone.

When our founding fathers started this country, they were trying to break that very real string of human misery, a lot of which was woven with state religions and the old feudal system. They created a society where everyone was expected to put aside the ethnic problems of the Old Country to try and work together in the New.

Now, as a nation and a people, we no longer know what it means to live in fear of being wiped out and suffer as our great-grandparents and before did simply because of how we chose to worship or what dialect we speak, or simply because someone's 5-great grandfather stole a pig from someone else's 5 great grandpa.

What made this country work was homogenization, not balkanization. The willingness to let go of the grievances of the past in order to realize the promise of tomorrow.

It is not a natural tendency for humans to do this, BTW. So assuming it will always be the norm is unrealistic. It must be a conscious decision of both the national government and the citizens. Which means expending some effort and self-awareness. Whether we as a nation have that capacity any more is a question that remains to be answered.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If this case does go to trial, the Jim Crow/KKK era of racism is certain to be spotlighted and spun over and over by the media. If it doesn't, well, as has been said, it is always nice to learn something in the process of case discussion.

You're right Wudge and in the context of how it affects this case, bring it on. However, since I need to moderate everything that's posted, I'd rather not be subjected to a history lesson. You're certainly welcome to start a separate thread though if you just want to discuss Jim Crow/KKK.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Report: Doubts About Accuser's Credibility Slowed Duke Response to Rape Allegation
DURHAM, N.C. — Duke underestimated the rape allegations against members of the lacrosse team in part because Durham police initially said the accuser "kept changing her story and was not credible," according to a university report issued Monday.

The day after the March 13 team party where a 27-year-old black woman claimed she was raped, Durham police told campus officers that "this will blow over," the report said. It said that the woman initially told police she was raped by 20 white men, then said she was attacked by three.

Police told the Duke officers that if any charges were filed, "they would be no more than misdemeanors," the report said.

Instead, more than a month after the party, a grand jury indicted two members of the highly ranked lacrosse team on charges of rape, kidnapping and sexual assault. District Attorney Mike Nifong has said he hopes to charge a third person.

The report was commissioned by the Duke president and prepared by Julius Chambers, a former chancellor at North Carolina Central University, where the accuser is a student, and William G. Bowen, a former president of Princeton University who is now head of the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation.


More at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194723,00.html

 

[Nova]

When our founding fathers started this country, they were trying to break that very real string of human misery, a lot of which was woven with state religions and the old feudal system. They created a society where everyone was expected to put aside the ethnic problems of the Old Country to try and work together in the New.

This is the funniest post I have ever read here.

Obviously, Billy is writing satirically. He knows quite well the "founding fathers" did little to nothing to solve that little "ethnic problem" called human slavery.

Now I'll shut up on racial history, per Jeana's request.

 

[paperhanger44z]

You're absolutely right about that.

In my heart I believe the only way racism will ever die is if "we" the people living now quit bringing it up every time there is something like this.This should be looked at as a girl accusing three guys.Nothing more,nothing less.Only love for our fellow humans as people not colors will ever stop that dark age of our humanity.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>The day after the March 13 team party where a 27-year-old black woman claimed she was raped, Durham police told campus officers that "this will blow over," the report said. It said that the woman initially told police she was raped by 20 white men, then said she was attacked by three.<


Oh for pity's sake ( This DA should be run out of town on a rail

Sherlockmom