NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

[Jeana (DP)]

Of course, Wudge may just change his opinion if the tide begins to turn...

I'm just trying to find another motivation for the police department to cooperate with the prosecutor and there isn't one. Its sickening. Maybe though, this will crack this whole thing wide open and they find out what the hell is going on there.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I am learning -- slowly, unfortunately -- that there are many people and oraganizations you just can't trust:

1. The Police
2. Prosecuters with hidden agendas
3. The Media

I already knew this about lawyers, though.
I am learning about the police more and more through stories about them failing to mention this and that to "get their man"
The Media -- well, since I worked for the media years ago, I knew firsthand that I was one of the few conservatives in the industry at the time.
There are more and more out there, they just have to have their own talk show to get their points across. General reporters seem to want to just get the "big headline" at anyone's expense.

I know I am generalizing here, but I've seen it all too many times.
It's aggravating.
So much for "no bias" in the media. The yellow journalists continue to sensationalize and go against their own rules or libel, slander and defamation of character -- things we learn in basic journalism school.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not ready to fry them all because of a few bad seeds. There are a GREAT many hard working, honest, caring individuals in all of the fields mentioned.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I'm not ready to fry them all because of a few bad seeds. There are a GREAT many hard working, honest, caring individuals in all of the fields mentioned.

you're nicer than I am

 

[Jeana (DP)]

you're nicer than I am

LOL I know a lot of people that fall into all the categories that you blasted and I think they're pretty good peeps!~

 

[Nova]

>So you believe everyone to be a "rocket scientist" unless you have a certified IQ test that proves otherwise?<


No but I usually discredit them by debating their opinions and questioning their reasoning - not by calling them names. That just makes me look stupid

Sherlockmom

Fair enough. But I'm at a disadvantage now just because Hannity accidentally got something right. For once.

So I resort to satire. It's an ancient and classic form of criticism, actually.

 

[Nova]

I agree.

And hopefully those Duke students can earn some of their character back. They should countersue for defamation of character!!

Prayers, I certainly don't want to see anyone prosecuted for something he didn't do.

But I'm not sure this incident speaks well of the "characters" of anyone involved. Were I one of the players, I think I'd want to keep quiet and wait for the whole thing to be forgotten.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Prayers, I certainly don't want to see anyone prosecuted for something he didn't do.

But I'm not sure this incident speaks well of the "characters" of anyone involved. Were I one of the players, I think I'd want to keep quiet and wait for the whole thing to be forgotten.

What did the boys do wrong? Drink and have a party with some "dancers"?
Most bachelor and bachelorette parties have these. They did nothing that was a crime other than underage drinking, which I do not condone but surely wouldn't persecute them for... I was one of the few girls in my graduating glass in college who never drank alcohol.
Doesn't make those who did bad people... right?
So what exactly did these students do to make you "question" their "characters"?
I have yet to see proof that they did what they are being accused of doing.
There's more than one side to every story.

 

[Nova]

What did the boys do wrong?

I didn't say they committed any crimes and I don't care how much they drank.

But a gang of young men who hire strippers so as to ogle and catcall at them raises the dial on my "ick" meter. And that's assuming there is nothing to the reports of racial slurs (and there may well be nothing to that).

Please don't get me wrong, however, I don't want to see anyone falsely prosecuted and I'm not saying the men's lives should be ruined. I just don't see them as entirely "innocent" parties here.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I didn't say they committed any crimes and I don't care how much they drank.

But a gang of young men who hire strippers so as to ogle and catcall at them raises the dial on my "ick" meter. And that's assuming there is nothing to the reports of racial slurs (and there may well be nothing to that).

Please don't get me wrong, however, I don't want to see anyone falsely prosecuted and I'm not saying the men's lives should be ruined. I just don't see them as entirely "innocent" parties here.

I understand what you mean.

Everyone has their own code of morality and ethics and so what we each think as individuals does not make it right or wrong.
My point was that these male students have had their names slandered very badly. It could affect job interviews, acceptances into grad schools, etc based on what was written and said about them.
I believe they are owed "something" to at least "clear" their names of the crimes. That's a serious charge!!
But I do agree with you that I wouldn't make a huge hoopla out of it.
I would think they can countersue without a whole lot of media attention.
Seems the media attention is waning anyway regarding the whole case.

 

[Nova]

I believe they are owed "something" to at least "clear" their names of the crimes. That's a serious charge!!

It is, indeed, and nobody should be unfairly painted with such a charge.

Even with media attention waning, however, it appears that this incident will go down in the public memory as a case of "false accusation." If so, the young men shouldn't be permanently scarred.

 

[Wudge]

I think a judge should throw this out of court and issue a very strong warning to this prosecutor.

You mean a prosecutor pulled the wool over a Grand Jury's eyes. I am shocked I tell you, shocked.

(snicker)

 

[Wudge]

In all honesty, I would be surprised if their attorneys haven't started the draft of these petitions already. This entire case STINKS to high Heaven. I must stay though that I'm very surprised to hear that the police department would have omitted information as mentioned in that article. I'm beginning to think, and LORD knows I hate to admit, that Wudge may have been right all along.

(salute)

I said on another thread that anything goes in NC, especially Durham. Corruption is systemic throughout the State, and it is practiced like a fine art in Durham.

In N.C., all D.A's want is a conviction, and they will do anything to get it: Repeat, ANYTHING.

I will repost a link that reveals in N, C.. the withholding of exculpatory evidence from the defense was considered to be STATE POLICY.

http://www.newsobserver.com/208/story/249929.html

If that does not break the code for you, put in perspective that this is just a mere rape case in a state where five capital murder cases have been overturned in just the last six years, because the prosecutors knowingly withheld both exculpatory and exonerating evidence.

http://www.newsobserver.com/208/story/255948.html

In most N.C., D.A. offices, this case is simply considered a sporting event without rules.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>I am learning -- slowly, unfortunately -- that there are many people and oraganizations you just can't trust:

1. The Police
2. Prosecuters with hidden agendas
3. The Media<


All of the above jobs have something in common. They give the person a type of power over others that other people do not have. Therefore, if one is weak-willed, or prone to be immoral they can be very damaging to their profession when they make the wrong choices.

There are those that are attracted to certain types of work because of their moral weaknesses. It places them in positions where they can manipulate people with their power or have influence over them in some way.

I am starting to wonder if we should add teachers to that list. Pediophiles are sometimes attracted to the teaching profession, the ministry, boy scout leader etc. because it places them in a position of trust and power over children. It's the same with cops. People who are not mentally suited for the job sometimes are attracted to the power that the job gives them and they abuse it.

When a teacher, a cop, a minister etc. do evil it somehow seems so much worse that if the local guy working at the check out counter at the grocery store. They have not only done evil, but abused the trust that the public has put in them. We tend to put these types of people on a pedestal. I think these people are in a minority and most teacher, ministers, priests, cops are good people. But when one of them goes bad it leaves a really big impression and we remember it for a long long time.

I agree though about the media. Although there may be a few good ones, they are few and far between. Long gone are the days when they just reported the facts. Long gone. This stuff was going on way back during WWII as well only not quite as bad. It has gotten much worse. There is alot of competition out there for them esp. now that we have the internet and cable news.

Sherlockmom

 

[Nova]

All of the above jobs have something in common. They give the person a type of power over others...

And "power corrupts," as the saying goes. All too often.

 

[concernedperson]

Nancy Grace's show is bringng up interesting comments. One, that the second stripper says she was only away from the first stripper for 5 minutes.Second, that she sent an email about how to capitalize on this great news story. I am sure transcripts will be up tomorrow. Then a totally contradictory remark where she says they were apart for 25 minutes.I have no clue and not as invested as a lot of you. Just throwing this out there for whatever it is worth.

 

[Sherlockmom]

The friend's statements were not the only thing left out of the affidavit used to obtain DNA from the Duke LaCrosse players.


"The sexual assault nurse's report "contains no opinion or conclusion that (the woman) had signs, symptoms and injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted," according to the filing."

Even though claiming she was choked, raped and sodomized the only thing found was slight vaginal swelling and a couple of scratches. Talking heads breathlessly spoke of her hospital examination results claiming they were consistent with rape injuries. Where in the world were they getting this information? Nifong? If so he was blatantly lying.

>Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong has said repeatedly he is pursuing the case because the medical evidence is consistent with a rape. <

I wonder if the boy's lawyers are going to let this go? It is starting to look like maybe not.

"The filings said that the woman changed her story to police and hospital workers several times: After initially telling police she had been raped, she recanted, saying that no one forced her to have sex. She later told the nurse she had been raped.
Defense lawyers also accuse Himan of withholding information about an encounter the woman said she had before going to the lacrosse party.

It involved a couple in a hotel room, and she told Himan she used a vibrator. That, the statement said, "clearly could have caused signs or symptoms of vaginal penetration."

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-ad-6_9_06.6ca5d5fd.html

Sherlockmom

 

[Wudge]

The friend's statements were not the only thing left out of the affidavit used to obtain DNA from the Duke LaCrosse players.


"The sexual assault nurse's report "contains no opinion or conclusion that (the woman) had signs, symptoms and injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted," according to the filing."

Even though claiming she was choked, raped and sodomized the only thing found was slight vaginal swelling and a couple of scratches. Talking heads breathlessly spoke of her hospital examination results claiming they were consistent with rape injuries. Where in the world were they getting this information? Nifong? If so he was blatantly lying.

>Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong has said repeatedly he is pursuing the case because the medical evidence is consistent with a rape. <

I wonder if the boy's lawyers are going to let this go? It is starting to look like maybe not.

"The filings said that the woman changed her story to police and hospital workers several times: After initially telling police she had been raped, she recanted, saying that no one forced her to have sex. She later told the nurse she had been raped.
Defense lawyers also accuse Himan of withholding information about an encounter the woman said she had before going to the lacrosse party.

It involved a couple in a hotel room, and she told Himan she used a vibrator. That, the statement said, "clearly could have caused signs or symptoms of vaginal penetration."

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-ad-6_9_06.6ca5d5fd.html

Sherlockmom

In 1961, Henry Marshall (Billy Sol Estes case --Texas) was shot five times in his back and side with a single shot rifle. On TV, I watched as a local Texas Sheriff exclaimed: "I have no reason to believe it was not suicide".

This case is getting that absurd.

 

[raisincharlie]

In 1961, Henry Marshall (Billy Sol Estes case --Texas) was shot five times in his back and side with a single shot rifle. On TV, I watched as a local Texas Sheriff exclaimed: "I have no reason to believe it was not suicide".

This case is getting that absurd.

Are we sure the case is absurd or is it the defense lawyers doing what defense lawyers do ? Hopefully if Mr. Nifong has brought this case without substantial proof or just for re-election, he will end up in jail. If the defense lawyers are spinning and trying this case in the press, hopefully they will be disbarred. I do find her dance partner totally idiotic (IMO) however.

But I have to wonder what happened at that party that dropped a dancer who did perform the task she was paid to do to a "passed out drunk" woman afterwards and how the cops knew she was passed out from drink...curious questions to me anyways.

 

[Wudge]

Are we sure the case is absurd or is it the defense lawyers doing what defense lawyers do ? Hopefully if Mr. Nifong has brought this case without substantial proof or just for re-election, he will end up in jail. If the defense lawyers are spinning and trying this case in the press, hopefully they will be disbarred. I do find her dance partner totally idiotic (IMO) however.

But I have to wonder what happened at that party that dropped a dancer who did perform the task she was paid to do to a "passed out drunk" woman afterwards and how the cops knew she was passed out from drink...curious questions to me anyways.

Prosecutors who withhold evidence in N.C. end up in cushy state jobs, for they supported the standard of judicial truth seeking that N.C. is renowned for.

North Carolina's prosecutor community is a very close knit, closed-club of corruption. Nifong is well insulated, and he know it. Plus, the people of Durham just showed what they think of his approach; they elected him to be their D.A..