NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10

[pufnstuf]

I think we have people jumping on the horror story bandwagon..............

Yeah... I'm not buying the attic story.

It's hard enough to walk on the attic ceiling studs with two good legs... I don't see how on earth a child with a prosthesis could do it. One miss and she'd have fallen through the ceiling drywall.

 

[Nosee_Parker]

Just my two cents :twocents: I wish our PM would provide a statement regarding Zahra, it's the decent thing to do. She (Julia Gillard, PM) should be thanking the United States for providing such fabulous resources and manpower to this case.

I also think the Australian Government should also be reimbursing something to the US (in the form of $$$) given it's one of our own they are spending every waking minute trying to locate. We appreciate LE's efforts in the search for Zahra.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

WTF. Sorry, but they made that little girl stay in an attic for her bed!!. Whoever would do this sort of thing is just a stain on the sidewalk of humanity in my book. They aren't human.

I dunno, fist I heard crawl space, now its an attic? are these two seperate residences? Or different interpretations of one space? To me, a crawl space is an icky, cobwebby, damp dark inhospitable place BENEATH your home. Wherease an attice is a place above the rafters and below the roof of your home. That they made her stay in there, that was just the interpretation of the reporter who described what neighbors passed on. IMO that hasn't been proven as factual as yet.

When I was a child I bugged and bugged my parents to let me move up into the attic (I had an older cousin who had her room in the attic and I thought it was the coolest thing ever, like your own little space, seperate from the rest of the household).

If it was an attic, I think it's possible that it was a place for Zahra to escape to. escape the brutality, the name calling, the fighting, the screaming, the hair pulling etc.

As to the hair pulling, I wonder if that played into the haircut towards the end.?
Either Zahra cutting it out of spite so she couldn't be yanked around by it anymore or SM doiing it because she lost it one day after Zahra had the nerve to whine about yet another hair pull. Completely supposition of course, how could it be otherwise?

ETA if this was a one BR apt and it was an attic space, it is possible that they were giving Sahra her own room on the cheap and under the radar. Also if she was not listed on lease and landlord didn't know of her, that could just be what po folk do.

Here on the bad side of town lots of rental properties within blocks of me with children living in unfinished basements, etc. It is the enorm if that is all you can afford. Not ideal, but not child abuse, my brother and I occupied an unfinished basement with a sheet hung down the middle for privacy for years til my folks coud afford to finish the basement.

ETA Also - It is also not uncommon for landlords to not know a bout children living in a rental property - landlords sometimes charge extra for extra occupants. Especially if it is a 1 br. Also, some landlords prefer not to rent to people with children or pets. Just thrown some stuff out there we need to consider.

 

[Aedrys]

I guess I should be relieved a woodchipper isn't involved...but I'm really not...

 

[Peliman]

In case you all missed it last night SM had some updated civil filings last night. Tonight I heard a sheriff say they have looked at the last 4 places she lived. Well sheesh they've only been here two years.

Updated from NC Court dockets

Arraigned Offenses for Case Number: 2007052949 CR
Arraigned Defendant Name: BAKER,ELISA,ANNETTE
County: CALDWELL
Court Date: 11/18/2010
Session: AM
Court Room: 0001

Offense Code Description Statute
2636 Misdemeanor FRAUD DISPOSAL MORTGAGE PROP 14-114

2nd
Offense Code Description Statute
2649 Misdemeanor FAIL RETN PROP RENTD PUR OPT 14-168.4

 

[bellyup]

I dunno, fist I heard crawl space, now its an attic? are these two seperate residences? Or different interpretations of one space? To me, a crawl space is an icky, cobwebby, damp dark inhospitable place BENEATH your home. Wherease an attice is a place above the rafters and below the roof of your home. That they made her stay in there, that was just the interpretation of the reporter who described what neighbors passed on. IMO that hasn't been proven as factual as yet.

When I was a child I bugged and bugged my parents to let me move up into the attic (I had an older cousin who had her room in the attic and I thought it was the coolest thing ever, like your own little space, seperate from the rest of the household).

It was a small attic above an apartment. Entered through a ceiling opening in a closet. Reported to be about 20x 20.
Photos :
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ic-1-im-79324/

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ic-2-im-79325/

(manager of property) account of what they believe happened is in this news article

 

[Wise Old Owl]

The attic story isn't adding up but the fact that this couple were the landlords AND the next door neighbors and them saying they didn't even know there was a daughter? Even if they only saw her once, twice, three times - they SAW her and from what that article says they didn't.

I'm wondering if there was a backdoor to the apts and that's how Zahra came and went? But still one would think she would be seen once in a while - I mean they were there 3 months and she was going to school. Speaking of school - that school article didn't say anything about her attendance rate. I wonder if she went on a fairly regular basis or was it very sporadic?

 

[pufnstuf]

Searchers have repeatedly visited the Hickory home where the Bakers' moved in August or September. On Wednesday, they also searched the Bakers' previous address in the Caldwell County town of Hudson.

Police are familiar with the mobile home. They were called for service there more than a dozen times for incidents including family disputes, two break-ins, and a report by Elisa Baker's daughter that accused Baker of using her information to get utilities in her name without her permission.


Read more: http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/10/15/2532507/detective-i-want-to-find-her.html#ixzz12OkC2BYH

 

[Sneechwatcher]

I'm a lurker but this story has me coming out of my quiet .....

This sounds totally crazy - but could the woodchipper angle be somewhat of a ploy by LE to distract AB ? Not that I am saying it's all made up - not at all -- but what if ----

If LE knew from the get go that the B's were trying to deceive them and throw them off track with that ransom note - then maybe when the dogs hit on the woodchipper - maybe LE knew it wasn't a good hit but went with it just to make sure and to be thorough and because they had no better leads AND in part -- to deceive the deceivers ?? Play them at their own game - so to speak. Let them think that LE is way off track - like they intended to do with the ransom note. Then --- they leave AB on the loose - keep SM locked up - and see if he leads them to the answers they are seeking - or at least gives them a clue. He doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree - so why not LE play him (or both of them) and have him think that they are way off track ? As a result - LE has AB thinking he's so smart - and waits and sees if he slips up - such as saying something incriminating or going to check on the body, etc..... he'll either get paranoid and mess up or get big headed and let his guard down.......if he thinks he's outsmarted/fooled LE.
When you think about how this has all unfolded --- there was outstanding warrants on both SM & AB - but LE sure did act quickly to lock up SM --- as in they got those two apart very quickly -- must have been a reason for wanting them in different places (not both in jail) and if SM is the dominant one - they'd go after the weaker one to break down or trip up. So -- LE keeps SM locked up and works on breaking down AB - which might be why they have one sheriff saying he belives AB and one saying that he doesn't...
might be a far fetched thought - but this whole story is twisted and weird - and sad.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Caldwell School Officials Tried to Help Zahra

"They utilized every resource within the school and any referral process that was available in the school for the well-being and welfare of Zahra," says Libby Brown, with Caldwell County schools.

Those staff members reported their concerns to the Department of Social Services, who then visited the Baker home.

That statement sounds way to familiar.

 

[bellyup]

http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/10/15/2532507/detective-i-want-to-find-her.html#ixzz12OkC2BYH[/url]

Why does this not surprise me. I'd like to know more about the "family disputes" and "break ins". Can anyone dig up any reports on that ???

Also from the same article " Thursday afternoon, police requested that media outlets turn over raw video of interviews of family and friends involved in the case. Hickory Police Maj. Clyde Deal said the department is trying to follow up on every possible lead, including trying to verify that statements given by family and friends are consistent. "If they tell the media one thing and they tell us something different, it's a flag," he said. "

This tells me my earlier hunch is correct. They are starting to look at other members of the family that either know something or have motive.

 

[tehcloser]

Searchers have repeatedly visited the Hickory home where the Bakers' moved in August or September. On Wednesday, they also searched the Bakers' previous address in the Caldwell County town of Hudson.

Police are familiar with the mobile home. They were called for service there more than a dozen times for incidents including family disputes, two break-ins, and a report by Elisa Baker's daughter that accused Baker of using her information to get utilities in her name without her permission.


Read more: http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/10/15/2532507/detective-i-want-to-find-her.html#ixzz12OkC2BYH

So many chances for someone to notice something.....poor baby.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Searchers have repeatedly visited the Hickory home where the Bakers' moved in August or September. On Wednesday, they also searched the Bakers' previous address in the Caldwell County town of Hudson.

Police are familiar with the mobile home. They were called for service there more than a dozen times for incidents including family disputes, two break-ins, and a report by Elisa Baker's daughter that accused Baker of using her information to get utilities in her name without her permission.


Read more: http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/10/15/2532507/detective-i-want-to-find-her.html#ixzz12OkC2BYH

So, these two were definitely NOT strangers to LE. More than a dozen times? C'mon now - this is really pushing the envelope. LE gets more than a dozen calls, DSS is called at least twice and once by school officials (school calls are taken more seriously), EB is charged with communicating threats, that woman/neighbor Tanya confronted this beast and said she and the neighborhood kids witnessed the abuse EB metted out. EB's own daughter reported her for identity theft (in getting utilities).

WHAT IN THE GOOD LORD'S NAME WAS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET SOMEONE TO SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE HERE?????

What bothers me even more is that this is one we know of - how many more are out there that we DON'T hear about??

 

[westsidefox64]

I'm a lurker but this story has me coming out of my quiet .....

This sounds totally crazy - but could the woodchipper angle be somewhat of a ploy by LE to distract AB ? Not that I am saying it's all made up - not at all -- but what if ----

If LE knew from the get go that the B's were trying to deceive them and throw them off track with that ransom note - then maybe when the dogs hit on the woodchipper - maybe LE knew it wasn't a good hit but went with it just to make sure and to be thorough and because they had no better leads AND in part -- to deceive the deceivers ?? Play them at their own game - so to speak. Let them think that LE is way off track - like they intended to do with the ransom note. Then --- they leave AB on the loose - keep SM locked up - and see if he leads them to the answers they are seeking - or at least gives them a clue. He doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree - so why not LE play him (or both of them) and have him think that they are way off track ? As a result - LE has AB thinking he's so smart - and waits and sees if he slips up - such as saying something incriminating or going to check on the body, etc..... he'll either get paranoid and mess up or get big headed and let his guard down.......if he thinks he's outsmarted/fooled LE.
When you think about how this has all unfolded --- there was outstanding warrants on both SM & AB - but LE sure did act quickly to lock up SM --- as in they got those two apart very quickly -- must have been a reason for wanting them in different places (not both in jail) and if SM is the dominant one - they'd go after the weaker one to break down or trip up. So -- LE keeps SM locked up and works on breaking down AB - which might be why they have one sheriff saying he belives AB and one saying that he doesn't...
might be a far fetched thought - but this whole story is twisted and weird - and sad.

JMO I really dont see them using all the man hours on something they didnt think was a good possibility.
As for the 2 sheriffs im leaning more toward good cop bad cop tactics???

 

[Virgogalsue]

She WAS precious and those 2 "parents" had NO IDEA what an AWESOME little girl they had.

:furious::furious::furious:

No, they didn't. At the VERY least...Maybe Dad once did...but he lost himself somewhere along the line.

The only solace is that Zarah had great love from her family and friends in Australia and the few loving individuals she found in NC.

Without a doubt, she was a very bright girl...she must have found great comfort in the love of those people.

At this point, my strongest support and wishes are for her Australian relatives to recover and eventually find peace. xxxxx

 

[Brattigirle]

Is it possible they were going to hide her in order to try and get money from the dad's boss, and she died by suffocation in the crawl space? I know Z was abused, but I wonder if they "planned" this...kind of like the balloon boy case.

OMG I really was hoping and thinking Balloon Boy. They seem to like attention imo.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I wish the old landlady would have elaborated on what they fought about. One fight got so bad they knocked pictures off the wall in the next apartment and others spilled out into the parking lot. So these fights were overheard - what were they fighting over? Drugs? Money? Affairs? What? Was Zahra never mentioned during them?

I need details - nasty lil details - would give more insight here.

 

[bellyup]

I just ran some basic demographics on Hickory because I'm not real familiar with the area. I find it interesting to note that it's nearly HALF rental properties. The graduation rate is 79% with only 28% of graduates attaining higher education. Close to 15% below the poverty level with a per capita income of $23k.

 

[Lori59]

I'm a lurker but this story has me coming out of my quiet .....

This sounds totally crazy - but could the woodchipper angle be somewhat of a ploy by LE to distract AB ? Not that I am saying it's all made up - not at all -- but what if ----

If LE knew from the get go that the B's were trying to deceive them and throw them off track with that ransom note - then maybe when the dogs hit on the woodchipper - maybe LE knew it wasn't a good hit but went with it just to make sure and to be thorough and because they had no better leads AND in part -- to deceive the deceivers ?? Play them at their own game - so to speak. Let them think that LE is way off track - like they intended to do with the ransom note. Then --- they leave AB on the loose - keep SM locked up - and see if he leads them to the answers they are seeking - or at least gives them a clue. He doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree - so why not LE play him (or both of them) and have him think that they are way off track ? As a result - LE has AB thinking he's so smart - and waits and sees if he slips up - such as saying something incriminating or going to check on the body, etc..... he'll either get paranoid and mess up or get big headed and let his guard down.......if he thinks he's outsmarted/fooled LE.
When you think about how this has all unfolded --- there was outstanding warrants on both SM & AB - but LE sure did act quickly to lock up SM --- as in they got those two apart very quickly -- must have been a reason for wanting them in different places (not both in jail) and if SM is the dominant one - they'd go after the weaker one to break down or trip up. So -- LE keeps SM locked up and works on breaking down AB - which might be why they have one sheriff saying he belives AB and one saying that he doesn't...
might be a far fetched thought - but this whole story is twisted and weird - and sad.

Although I'm sure LE has tactics they use to gain information, I can't see them conducting these huge searches the last couple days, using so many resources, just to throw off EB and AB that they are not "onto them". I think they had concrete reasons to search those places.

 

[tlcya]

So, these two were definitely NOT strangers to LE. More than a dozen times? C'mon now - this is really pushing the envelope. LE gets more than a dozen calls, DSS is called at least twice and once by school officials (school calls are taken more seriously), EB is charged with communicating threats, that woman/neighbor Tanya confronted this beast and said she and the neighborhood kids witnessed the abuse EB metted out. EB's own daughter reported her for identity theft (in getting utilities).

WHAT IN THE GOOD LORD'S NAME WAS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET SOMEONE TO SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE HERE?????

What bothers me even more is that this is one we know of - how many more are out there that we DON'T hear about??

A sobering thought

How many more are out there right now, scared, hurt, alone, with no one to notice?

can I just say I have seen some cases. Caylee, Haleigh-bug, Somer, little Teghan, my god little Tehgan, and Kyron, and so many more, each more prepcious that the last. But never, in the time that I have been here have I changed my avatar to honor one our our babies. Til this evening.

Look at my little snake charmer up there. That infectious grin.

And how many more gorgeous little angels are out there suffering right now at the hands of the ones who should treasure them most?

I am gonna say a quick Prayer for all those little angels. Please send help their way sooner rather than later, in the form of a teacher, nieghbor, uncle or family friend, please . . . protect the innocents tonight. In the name of my mother the earth, my father the sky and all things sacred and holy. This I humbly pray.