NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #18

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  • #541
why why why why why

I wish I could even answer one of those :( I am whooped my friends. Gotta get some sleep - work comes early. See told you I'm tired.

Good night :hug: I hope you can get some restful sleep!
 
  • #542
Well, it "appears" Karen Baker is not on her way here, she posted on FB within the last hour. <<shaking my head>>

I dont think thats her on there, notice the discussions have been stopped, someone has to be monitoring at this point. Too much being said.By whom we really dont know.
 
  • #543
The quote from AB is in this article:

http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/10/...dont-free.html
"After the hearing, Adam Baker was at the family's Hickory, N.C., house removing belongings. He told the Observer he hasn't spoken with his wife since her arrest."

The report of Adam Baker having visited her in jail is here:

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Investigat...s-in-Zahra-Baker-disappearance-105200489.html
"While Elisa Baker awaits her court appearance for obstructing justice, jail records show she has had three visitors, including a daughter, a man who appears to be a son-in-law and Adam Baker."

Well I suppose it is possible he visited her and didn't speak with her. Also just because he went to the gaol doesn't mean he visited her either.
 
  • #544
I'm just so confused after seeing the pressor and my thoughts about the mattress and then to actually see it on TV. :shocked2:
Maybe LE has cleared the house from being the crime scene, being they are allowing him to remove his belongings..kwim... :waitasec:
Wouldn't LE hold that house until they cleared it or found the actual crime scene...:waitasec: Am I making any sense...???:blushing:

I was unfortunately close to a child homicide case and LE held that rental home from the time of the crime in April until after the trial in Dec. The Landlord was less than pleased that's for sure.
 
  • #545
Yep, if she'd written all these bad checks in the Texas county where I live.. she would have had the book thrown at her (and felonies too).

I don't understand how she has been able skirt by w'o felonies and jail time
 
  • #546
  • #547
Doesn't it make you wonder why any bank would give her a checking account? Don't they run a check when you open an account? It's been so many years since I've opened an account that I don't remember.
BoA does at least they did when I opened my account
 
  • #548
Doesn't it make you wonder why any bank would give her a checking account? Don't they run a check when you open an account? It's been so many years since I've opened an account that I don't remember.

There is a bank that operates within the confines of several local NC Wal-Marts that allows for customers to open new checking accounts, no matter what their past checking account experiences have been. They charge a small fee (less than $10.00 per month) for this type of account.

My neighbor who is illiterate is required to have a checking account to comply with part of his divorce/child support settlement. He was able to open a new checking account at this bank, even though he had numerous bad check convictions on his record. As he does not drive due to a drunk driving conviction, he opened the account using his NC state-issued ID.

A little tidbit that I noticed is that many of the bad check charges EB is facing were written to Wal-Mart.
 
  • #549
They wouldn't have, they had no need for it and EB sure wouldn't have wasted good money for something no one was using.

I don't think it is the mattress at all that they are looking for-
the mattress taken from the house was slit down the middle, if LE didn't think Zahra had ever slept on the mattress there is no need to open it up, but if they thought she had used it opening it up to examine it for fluids would be expected.

Also if you watch the overhead shots of the landfill search they had a table set up like we've seen used for sorting items.

~~~~Bolded by me

Do you have a link so that I/we can see this slit down the middle of the mattress? I saw the pictures of them taking the mattress out of the house, but I don't recall seeing a slit cut into it. Thank you in advance.
 
  • #550
I was just thinking the same thing! :croc:

She is a good con though, she might be using her kids SS number! And she did just have a fight with her daughter for using her name for a utility bill.

Unfortunately, my family has had to experience this with my husbands ex. She did things I would never dream possible and nothing ever happened to her. (legally)

I thought about that too maybe she did use one of her kids ssn's
 
  • #551
~~~~Bolded by me

Do you have a link so that I/we can see this slit down the middle of the mattress? I saw the pictures of them taking the mattress out of the house, but I don't recall seeing a slit cut into it. Thank you in advance.

I'm looking- I know the video I saw had to be on HLN

OK it was something that was wrapped with the mattress not a slit I stand corrected. But looking at it again it does look like the mattress is torn at the top- end closest to the door as it is carried out.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Investigators-return-to-Zahra-Bakers-Hickory-home-105036589.html
1:57 on the video
 
  • #552
Long post alert (maybe it will help you get sleepy!):

Here's something that bugs me about the whole ransom note/discovering Zahra missing thing. If both EB and AB were in on it and wanted her to be discovered missing when authorities came for the fire and the ransom note was found, why wouldn't they have colluded about that and been prepared? Why didn't one of them say, "OMG, our daughter!" and make a beeline to check on her, then come out screaming that she was gone?

That seems like a fairly simple and reasonable (in a criminal way) means of having her discovered missing while authorities are on scene. The whole waiting several hours to report it thing is just so incredibly dumb, even for super dumb criminals.

It makes absolutely no sense. One or both go to all this trouble with the setup -- the fire, the ransom note -- but they can't somehow work into the conversation that they have a daughter sleeping in the house? Can't feign concern for a second to have an excuse to find her missing?

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something within that scenario that we are missing. Sometimes I wonder if maybe EB didn't want to be the one to say check on Zahra for fear that she might be scrutinized if she were the one to suggest it or to find her missing. And then either AB was just his apparently oblivious usual self (if not in on it) or was too chicken to start the ball rolling (if he was in on it).

Something is just so wrong about that whole scenario...and not just that they were too stupid to at least appear to be concerned about her safety. One or both knew she was gone, so one or both should have somehow alerted authorities, and it would have been SO easy to do. Was it simply a loss of courage to follow through? Did they chicken out and have to concoct another story afterward?

I can't seem to think of an explanation that makes any sense. I believe their failure to alert to her disappearance at that time is a major big deal in the overall picture. What am I missing? What reasons would one or both of them have for not allowing (or maybe even not wanting) the discovery to happen while police were on scene?
 
  • #553
~~~~Bolded by me

Do you have a link so that I/we can see this slit down the middle of the mattress? I saw the pictures of them taking the mattress out of the house, but I don't recall seeing a slit cut into it. Thank you in advance.

If there were a slit cut into it, that would seem to mesh with what shopgrl's local source told her about the possibility of a mattress having been opened and sewn shut...maybe they slit it open to see what might be in it?

ETA: I just saw kalekona mention that it wasn't a slit after all. Sooo...in my best Emily Latella voice....."nevermind"! ;)
 
  • #554
Excellent points Sherbie..!!!! Hopefully we find out something soon... I'm still shocked that she admitted to the randsom note so fast.. I keep rewatching the first minute of the mattress video and I've noticed that they a dragging it a ways to get to that table of their things...also the man following behind... I doesn't appear to me that they are just moving it aside to get through the pile. I think they found what they were looking for... but will still search to see if there is anything else of value to the investigation... :( My opinions only...
 
  • #555
~~~~Snipped for brevity and bolded by me

Something is just so wrong about that whole scenario...and not just that they were too stupid to at least appear to be concerned about her safety. One or both knew she was gone, so one or both should have somehow alerted authorities, and it would have been SO easy to do. Was it simply a loss of courage to follow through? Did they chicken out and have to concoct another story afterward?



I think that EB's abuse escalated for some reason either right before or right after that phone call on Friday, October 8th, to BS asking that the communicating threats charges be dropped. I feel that she likely became incensed that BS refused to comply with her request and that she took her anger out on little Zahra.

It is possible that EB was already considering leaving Adam and Zahra. She had, after all, just received monies that week from the gentleman in England. I think she was tired of her "new" husband and with another man sending her money from a land far away, she probably was fantasizing about a new life with said foreign gentleman.

I think that she knew her time was running out as to being able to get out of the country with all of the charges that were building up against her for writing so many bad checks and not living a life within the confines of the law.

I am not even sure that Adam knew about the bad checks that had been written on their account. In most states, and I believe it is so here in NC, any and all parties to a bank account are responsible for ensuring that there are sufficient funds to cover any outstanding checks.

Even if it was EB writing the checks without Adam's knowledge, he was still liable for them. Most states will charge all parties associated with the account if a check is returned for insufficient funds, and I think that is exactly what happened in this case. I have not compared Adam's bad check charges with EB's, but I would almost bet a donut that they are identical.

Although I am officially still very slightly on the fence as to Adam's involvement, I tend to believe he had nothing to do with Zahra's demise (other than the rumored sitting back and watching as EB punished her).

That being said, I think that EB got cold feet during the fire incident and didn't want to be the one to point out that there was supposed to be a sleeping child in the house. I don't think she wanted to draw that much attention to herself. I fully believe that EB is responsible for Zahra's demise, and for having removed her from the home. I have already stated in an earlier post that I believe she is also the one who set the fire and raised the alarm for said arson.

After Adam had gone back to work that Saturday morning, and then returned home, she realized that she had to do SOMEthing to raise the alert that Zahra was not in the house, because Adam was sure to be interested in seeing his daughter. It was, after all, 2pm on a nice Saturday afternoon, and he was presumably home for the weekend. He would have expected to see Zahra at some point that afternoon.

I think that Adam made some very poor judgment calls about EB during his online courtship of her, and came to a rude awakening after moving back here to the States.

After having left his homeland on bad terms with his family, he would have lost face to admit that he made a mistake and that he wanted to go back home. This would have been a hard pill for a man's man to swallow. Unfortunately, I think that in his inaction to remove both he and Zahra from the life he so poorly chose, he inadvertently put Zahra in harm's way, and it has had tragic consequences.

I think that EB's goose is cooked. Stick a fork in her - she's done.
 
  • #556
Long post alert (maybe it will help you get sleepy!):

Here's something that bugs me about the whole ransom note/discovering Zahra missing thing. If both EB and AB were in on it and wanted her to be discovered missing when authorities came for the fire and the ransom note was found, why wouldn't they have colluded about that and been prepared? Why didn't one of them say, "OMG, our daughter!" and make a beeline to check on her, then come out screaming that she was gone?

That seems like a fairly simple and reasonable (in a criminal way) means of having her discovered missing while authorities are on scene. The whole waiting several hours to report it thing is just so incredibly dumb, even for super dumb criminals.

It makes absolutely no sense. One or both go to all this trouble with the setup -- the fire, the ransom note -- but they can't somehow work into the conversation that they have a daughter sleeping in the house? Can't feign concern for a second to have an excuse to find her missing?

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something within that scenario that we are missing. Sometimes I wonder if maybe EB didn't want to be the one to say check on Zahra for fear that she might be scrutinized if she were the one to suggest it or to find her missing. And then either AB was just his apparently oblivious usual self (if not in on it) or was too chicken to start the ball rolling (if he was in on it).

Something is just so wrong about that whole scenario...and not just that they were too stupid to at least appear to be concerned about her safety. One or both knew she was gone, so one or both should have somehow alerted authorities, and it would have been SO easy to do. Was it simply a loss of courage to follow through? Did they chicken out and have to concoct another story afterward?

I can't seem to think of an explanation that makes any sense. I believe their failure to alert to her disappearance at that time is a major big deal in the overall picture. What am I missing? What reasons would one or both of them have for not allowing (or maybe even not wanting) the discovery to happen while police were on scene?

They saw the guy at the doughnut shop and thought he might have seen them light the fire?
 
  • #557
I'm looking- I know the video I saw had to be on HLN

OK it was something that was wrapped with the mattress not a slit I stand corrected. But looking at it again it does look like the mattress is torn at the top- end closest to the door as it is carried out.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Investigators-return-to-Zahra-Bakers-Hickory-home-105036589.html
1:57 on the video

Thanks, an explanation was given in this story. Not that anyone needs believe that explanation. :)

"NewsChannel 36 saw crews removing Zahra's mattresses and bed railings, saying search dogs will use these to constantly have her scent."
 
  • #558
Thoughts - I'm wondering how much in savings AB had before he met EB online. How much he had coming into this country and how long it took him to lose it all. <if any>
 
  • #559
Thoughts - I'm wondering how much in savings AB had before he met EB online. How much he had coming into this country and how long it took him to lose it all. <if any>

Very good question.
 
  • #560
I think that EB's abuse escalated for some reason either right before or right after that phone call on Friday, October 8th, to BS asking that the communicating threats charges be dropped. I feel that she likely became incensed that BS refused to comply with her request and that she took her anger out on little Zahra.

It is possible that EB was already considering leaving Adam and Zahra. She had, after all, just received monies that week from the gentleman in England. I think she was tired of her "new" husband and with another man sending her money from a land far away, she probably was fantasizing about a new life with said foreign gentleman.

I think that she knew her time was running out as to being able to get out of the country with all of the charges that were building up against her for writing so many bad checks and not living a life within the confines of the law.

I am not even sure that Adam knew about the bad checks that had been written on their account. In most states, and I believe it is so here in NC, any and all parties to a bank account are responsible for ensuring that there are sufficient funds to cover any outstanding checks.

Even if it was EB writing the checks without Adam's knowledge, he was still liable for them. Most states will charge all parties associated with the account if a check is returned for insufficient funds, and I think that is exactly what happened in this case. I have not compared Adam's bad check charges with EB's, but I would almost bet a donut that they are identical.

Although I am officially still very slightly on the fence as to Adam's involvement, I tend to believe he had nothing to do with Zahra's demise (other than the rumored sitting back and watching as EB punished her).

That being said, I think that EB got cold feet during the fire incident and didn't want to be the one to point out that there was supposed to be a sleeping child in the house. I don't think she wanted to draw that much attention to herself. I fully believe that EB is responsible for Zahra's demise, and for having removed her from the home. I have already stated in an earlier post that I believe she is also the one who set the fire and raised the alarm for said arson.

After Adam had gone back to work that Saturday morning, and then returned home, she realized that she had to do SOMEthing to raise the alert that Zahra was not in the house, because Adam was sure to be interested in seeing his daughter. It was, after all, 2pm on a nice Saturday afternoon, and he was presumably home for the weekend. He would have expected to see Zahra at some point that afternoon.

I think that Adam made some very poor judgment calls about EB during his online courtship of her, and came to a rude awakening after moving back here to the States.

After having left his homeland on bad terms with his family, he would have lost face to admit that he made a mistake and that he wanted to go back home. This would have been a hard pill for a man's man to swallow. Unfortunately, I think that in his inaction to remove both he and Zahra from the life he so poorly chose, he inadvertently put Zahra in harm's way, and it has had tragic consequences.

I think that EB's goose is cooked. Stick a fork in her - she's done.

Cleo, thank you so much for your excellent reply. It makes perfect sense, and I agree with everything you said. I think the dynamics of the relationship between AB and EB are exactly as you described. I think she lost her nerve to mention Zahra at that time and then had to come up with something before AB wondered where she was and tried to check on her.

I really don't think AB had any role in Zahra's death (other than not protecting her from EB). I can't see both of them being in on the ruse with the fire/note, either. However, should we learn Zahra was missing long before that fateful night, I am going to have a very different opinion of her father.

Still blows my mind that someone would go to SO much trouble to set up the scenario for Zahra having been "mistakenly" taken by "kidnappers" and then not even mention her! I mean, that was the entire reason for the whole setup, I assume. Just bizarre beyond words.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I think you are spot on with your assessment!
 
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