Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

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While I do believe Cameron is a bit of a crackpot, some of the stuff in there is pretty compelling. And while some of it seems a bit farfetched, there is the fact that he was a serial killer, so it's not that much of a stretch to think that he wasn't out doing some of this stuff. Look at the book he wrote, how he became a pseudo-celebrity, inserted himself into cases, etc... Now I wouldn't think much of just some nutty person doing that as anything other than a nutty person doing that, if he wasn't actually a serial killer and wasn't actually able to run around undetected for so many years. So while I take some of it with a grain of salt, it does bring up the idea that a "shadowy figure" isn't all that impossible.

While random murders by strangers are fairly rare, they do happen. And if you think of the notoriety of SA when this murder took place, is it completely all that farfetched to think that someone (not particularly EWE) COULD have seen an opportunity to commit this crime and setup SA?

Again, I know I am a broken record, but we have a very unique situation in this case in that the "crime scene" is both a public place as well as a private residence. So access to the site is certainly available to someone who may wish to gain access fairly easily.

Oh, my bad--- I didn't mean to imply that I don't believe anything the guy says. I have researched him and viewed the Cameron website a few times. Seems legit. I just think that sometimes ppl that are conspiracy minded go a tad TOO far sometimes. I might stock up on milk & bread for a predicted storm, you might put tons of canned goods in the woods, and my neighbor would be digging out a fallout shelter in his back 30acres lol. Some cases are just cut and dry. I TOTALLY agree on the plausibility of Jon Benet, and the high profile appeal to frame Avery------ But Scott Peterson is the poster boy for "did it"!!
 
So much of this negativity " could have " been avoided, IMO

I honestly do not believe it is ALL MAM.
I absolutely believe this documentary brought to light a terrible injustice, that just happened to make the Manitowoc department look terrible, and rightfully so.

Much of THAT along with this " reputation " could have been avoided had

The department not so OBVIOUSLY disregarded the rules and stayed OUT of the investigation. ( had that been one of us, going where LE said NOT to go, we'd been arrested )

Kratz had conducted himself as a professional

This department hadn't already LIED back in 1985. ( Call it what you want, some of them are and were, liars. )

All the documentary did, was bring this and more to light. MANY folks since, HAVE done research and STILL have an opinion that this is a VERY corrupt department.

When ya read articles that DNA " experts " are being looked into?
SEVERAL, DNA experts. Misconduct. Negligence.

Anyway,
No one deserves bomb threats, or to be threatened, period.

I DO understand, though, the anger & frustration with those involved with this case.
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Petition to remove "Making a Murderer" from Netflix
Manitowoc residents are sick of negative attention

Billy Wagness
8:14 PM, Feb 4, 2016
2 hours ago

MANITOWOC, WI -- Manitowoc residents are sick of the reputation their city has earned lately, thanks to a controversial documentary on Netflix.

A number of people are adding their names to an online petition, calling for "Making a Murderer" to be removed from the popular streaming media service.

This comes just one day after a bomb threat, and two suspicious phone calls to Manitowoc police, cleared city blocks around the Sheriff's Department downtown as teams used bomb-sniffing dogs to search the area.

Many in Manitowoc tonight are sick of their city's tarnished reputation.

EYESR_zps1dff9e53.gif

nbc26
 
I think it's possible.

I know a few guys who's cursive writing, and printing are very different.
I really don't think there is enough here to make much of a judgement, but at first glance no.
 
I think it's possible

Anything is possible.
Just wondering if you all think the same person could have wrote both of these??

I'll let you all know who wrote each one, after you all tell me if you think the same person wrote both of these?
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I think it would be unfair to assume any jury that stays out deliberating more than a few hours is doing such a thing (i.e. saying "the heck with this I'll just fill out a card to end this"). Not saying it never happens, but just because a jury returns a verdict that people don't like doesn't mean they didn't deliberate together. Jurors take an oath and promise to follow the judge's instructions.

Would anyone here not take that oath seriously? Would anyone here refuse to deliberate or just say "the heck with it?" I wouldn't. I won't assume a jury did that.

"verdict that ppl don't like"---- I believe he is guilty, soooooooooooooooooooooooo ZERO personal relevance with my original comment if that’s what you meant?
I’m NOT assuming OR alleging--merely pondering. It’s got to be so taxing to serve.
I personally find indifference, anxiety or exhaustion easier to believe than 3/4 of the jurors changing their votes to guilty and sending someone away for LIFE for fear the COPS would kill them?? Um, no.
I’m also not talking about "a few hours" of deliberating. I have no clue how long they deliberated. I'm talking about an exhausting, lengthy trial. One that pulls them away from their families, jobs, puts them in the media’s eye, under constant high pressure scrutiny and concludes with dissension and major drama amongst them. If the bulk of the jurors thought he was innocent initially and then changed to guilty, I PREFER TO THINK that they were shown/proven otherwise OR got frustrated rather than believe that they feared local police agencies would start picking them off from the roof?
Some ppl on here are alleging that some jurors were tainted, untrustworthy, etc. simply because they are stealth family members or spouses of LE etc.---- Me wondering about indifference or exhaustion seems like a way less offensive statement, no?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I'd personally acquit someone in a hot friggin minute if the evidence wasn't there OR reasonable doubt was ie: OJ was guilty as sin IMO, but I would have HAD to acquit him.
 
Yikes people my first post on this thread, just finished the Netflix Doc. Loved it. Usually stick to Oz murders! As USA laws are so complex but can't help commenting. Apologies in advance!

Brendan Dassey - no words for the injustice. How can a judicial system condone this kind of treatment? Video evidence of his coercion and we are still in denial. How?
Steven Avery - sure not the most savoury character but seriously does he have the smarts to cover himself so well ?- sure there was the key and stories about his prior weirdness but sheesh you would have to be an IQ200 criminologist to prepare a crime scene and get away with this crime - not sure he could cover his bases so well. Why do you think he was arrested for killing the family cat? This guy has no sophistication - this was a complex and sophisticated crime!
 
I think it would be unfair to assume any jury that stays out deliberating more than a few hours is doing such a thing (i.e. saying "the heck with this I'll just fill out a card to end this"). Not saying it never happens, but just because a jury returns a verdict that people don't like doesn't mean they didn't deliberate together. Jurors take an oath and promise to follow the judge's instructions.

Would anyone here not take that oath seriously? Would anyone here refuse to deliberate or just say "the heck with it?" I wouldn't. I won't assume a jury did that.

I'm sure Cameron will have a field day with this!

LMAO-- He will think Patsy Ramsey wrote it? God RHS :(
 
To get his noodle wet? GF locked up--- Tons of previous alleged deviant behavior as well. Attention? Set up for "lawsuit #2" gamble? Who knows. But praise J we can't understand sicko perv/murderers' motives 99% of the time. Motive is a pretty little bow on top, but optional (for me anyway...)
 
I am just curious about something. I have noticed that when you post, you seem to be ADAMANT about SA guilt, and I respect that as while many people are unsure of his guilt there are just as many that are unsure of his 100% innocence, as well (myself included). But I think that most people are coming away from this documentary questioning the investigation, even more than they are questioning SA's guilt/innocence. My question to you is that I want the opinion of a pro-guilt person on what you found right or wrong about the INVESTIGATION & TRIALS. So, what are your opinions on what LE & officials did right or wrong in this case?


Oooooo Pick me too! LOL.
I also believe he is guilty. I followed this case from day one TH “missing person” breaking news.
HOWEVER, I did come away from the documentary questioning the investigation. I was also majorly swayed by fancy press conference and had little reason to doubt Brandon’s guilt or confession at that time. I now believe he could be innocent, guilty or somewhere in between. I’m FIRM that he deserves a new FAIR trial immediately—if that’s even possible at this point. Avery, I’d be willing to watch him get one (mostly to shut ppl up), but I’m still firmly convinced the same outcome would likely occur. UNLESS, KZ finds out otherwise and digs out beautiful new factual evidence- as she is so famous for. Then I would ACCEPT it without reservation. EAT CROW STAT!! Not everyone that thinks that he is guilty is too stubborn or too invested in their beliefs.
LE & TRIALS: I also walked away convinced of:
A. Blatant lies on the stand pre-trial hearings and trial by LE.
B. Potential for a few pieces of evidence that COULD have been conveniently dropped in choice locations to solidify a conviction.
C. Seemingly non-existent HARD look at other potential suspects.
D. Morally corrupt interview/badgering of Brandon who they CLEARLY knew they could break. Never should have been done w/out parent or attorney. I might even believe the allegation that mom claims to have told them “NOT without me”
E. Etc…. the remaining common answers ie: MCSD personnel should never have been on scene, un-supervised, un-logged, Officers deposed in civil case shouldn’t have even been allowed to assist in an administrative or consultation role, PERIOD.
F. Our criminal justice system is more flawed than I ever could have imagined.

I’m also repulsed by the extremes ppl will go to whilst justifying or arguing their opinions. Guilty or innocent. Things are picked apart to a ridiculous degree, conspiracy theories taken TOO far, evidence exaggerated, and ppl that are far from “experts” on certain areas making broad, ridiculous statements to support their case. Essentially allowing others that just pop in to peek at this site to walk away thinking some things are FACT. I work in LE, so I’ll admit I’m sensitive to scrutiny and allegations, but I won’t dismiss the idea of corruption based solely on that. I’ll defend or attempt to clarify as necessary--The most common example of what I spoke of above are the steadfast beliefs, accusations, adamant statements that Colburn HAD to be looking at the car when calling in the plates. “There’s NO REASON HE WOULD EVER BE DOING THAT IF HE WASN’T RIGHT AT THE CAR!!” Simply not true. He could be a creep, but it’s negligent to be so adamant when it’s not your particular area of expertise. I prefer to let the blood draw experts speak on the needle, the off-duty attorneys on here speak to the law, the ppl with medical experience decipher the difficult autopsy, medical stuff, etc.

Personally, I will let the evidence lead me, not my pride or stubbornness or blanket statements made by other non-experts. I’m VERY open to looking at both sides. I believe the evidence DID lead to Avery in the trial, but I also believe that ppl over-analyze his actions un-necessary and pick apart his statements or use somewhat irrelevant details to point to his guilt. Ex: him stating he touched the car. Or maybe he touched the car. Not sure where he touched the car, etc. Saying maybe the door, or top of the door? He wasn’t SURE. He was stating it was a possibility. He was confused. Innocent or guilty some facts are irrelevant to you at the time because you don’t know they could BECOME relevant. We all have memory lapses and get confused. I think he’s guilty and I’m equally annoyed by my counterparts and their Nancy Grace mentality.

I also don’t expect or NEED to know exactly HOW things went down in what order. Bedroom, garage, Brandon’s 2nd, 3rd, 18th version? Who cares? You can’t throw away the baby with the bathwater just because we can’t put it ALL together. Maybe there’s no blood because she was killed in the grass and trace evidence washed away in the rain. The only person that knows exactly how it was done step by step is the guilty person--- and HE AINT TALKING.

I don’t mean to sound biotchy, I LOVE THIS WEBSITE and value everyone’s input. HOLY COW I rely on ya’ll to help my mind pick through SO many trials. I’ll admit to being blinded by pre-conceived thoughts or naïve on SO MUCH—but I thoroughly enjoy that THIS is where I can come to have ppl break it all down for me!!! I brag on this tribe like you’re my family 

But I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that I get slightly annoyed by ppl blazing in on social media, FB, Blogs, commenting on news articles etc-- after watching a documentary on TV and immediately being the authority on everything!! We all have a responsibility to dig, research, read, and be well versed when being adamant in our stance.

The documentary left a TON out. PERIOD!
 
LMAO-- He will think Patsy Ramsey wrote it? God RHS :(

In Cameron's defense, he actually contends that EWE/Zodiak wrote the JBR ransom note. FWIW. Here is the Zodiak letter/JBR ransom note/Avery note all side by side for comparison. I have no idea what it means.

notes.jpg
 
Some ppl on here are alleging that some jurors were tainted, untrustworthy, etc. simply because they are stealth family members or spouses of LE etc.---- Me wondering about indifference or exhaustion seems like a way less offensive statement, no?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
RSBM
I wouldn't think the jury was tainted if they just had family members of employees. However there was a Volunteer for the Sheriffs department on the jury. He also seemed to have racked up the most hours volunteering that year. And then there is the other juror I will call Ms. D. She had to go to Brendans trial to get answers. UM why would she need to attend another case to get answers? She convicted a man for life, shouldn't she have had pretty much the answers. The answers that pointed to guilt. Why would she need answers at all after convicting someone? Did she doubt her own verdict? If she had doubt in her own verdict how did he get convicted in the first place?
 
I would like to know what happened to Teresa's Journal that was taken from her bedroom on November 3rd. Wonders if anyone ever read it? If they took it from her room would this be something that the State would have to hand over to defense during discovery as evidence?

Also the evidence that was from RH, the printed bill he gave to detective MW, would that be considered something that should be handed over to the defense in the discovery process?

Also what happened to the memory card that was swabbed but never tested that was in the cargo area of the Rav4? Did anyone ever download what was on the memory card to see what was on it?
 
Oooooo Pick me too! LOL.
I also believe he is guilty. I followed this case from day one TH “missing person” breaking news.
HOWEVER, I did come away from the documentary questioning the investigation. I was also majorly swayed by fancy press conference and had little reason to doubt Brandon’s guilt or confession at that time. I now believe he could be innocent, guilty or somewhere in between. I’m FIRM that he deserves a new FAIR trial immediately—if that’s even possible at this point. Avery, I’d be willing to watch him get one (mostly to shut ppl up), but I’m still firmly convinced the same outcome would likely occur. UNLESS, KZ finds out otherwise and digs out beautiful new factual evidence- as she is so famous for. Then I would ACCEPT it without reservation. EAT CROW STAT!! Not everyone that thinks that he is guilty is too stubborn or too invested in their beliefs.

But I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that I get slightly annoyed by ppl blazing in on social media, FB, Blogs, commenting on news articles etc-- after watching a documentary on TV and immediately being the authority on everything!! We all have a responsibility to dig, research, read, and be well versed when being adamant in our stance.

The documentary left a TON out. PERIOD!

RSBM

Thanks for your thoughts Nocturnal! There are not many people that followed this from the beginning that have been on here saying the news conference and what was put in front of them 10 years go swayed them.... and now, they might just have a few doubts about it all.

As for getting annoyed about people watching the documentary and running off to sign a petition to free Avery... I agree LOL On the other side of that, I get annoyed by people who are so adamant that he is guilty and assume that some of us have not done our research... it's actually quite insulting LOL Here at websleuths, we are able to bounce ideas around... that's what it's for.... "discussing". We can discuss if EWE could be responsible for Laci Petersons death.... doesn't mean anyone would believe it, right? LOL
 
TheDuchess ~ have you looked into that guy at all? Didn't Earl say he was there on the day the RAV4 was found? and he came to the Salvage yard quite frequently?

I would like to know who was there as a customer on the 31st. Could someone have followed her out of the property?
 
TheDuchess ~ have you looked into that guy at all? Didn't Earl say he was there on the day the RAV4 was found? and he came to the Salvage yard quite frequently?

I would like to know who was there as a customer on the 31st. Could someone have followed her out of the property?

Actually, yes, Earl did say he was there on the 5th when the car was found. Also, Brandon also mentioned him as a possible suspect during his first interview, but the detective quickly says "ok we're done here."

[video=youtube;9zePg5OfvyU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zePg5OfvyU[/video]
 
TheDuchess.... I'm going to copy your post to the alternate theories thread, just because it's so hard to find stuff in this thread when I want to go back to it LOL
 
TheDuchess.... I'm going to copy your post to the alternate theories thread, just because it's so hard to find stuff in this thread when I want to go back to it LOL

Sounds good, but I have to clarify that this isn't MY theory - stole it off reddit. That said, I think the person who posted on reddit used this alternate suspect, which has been discussed before and was also one of the ones the defense team was prevented from entering into evidence at trial, and coupled it with the testimony from Pam Strum, who mentioned a scary looking figure on the property when they located the car. She was so scared, she shielded her daughter from him. Also, EA did also state this man was on the property on the day the car was found and there are also photos of his car that remains junked on site. There are plenty of records to indicate that this man was indeed a regular visitor to the salvage yard and was familiar with the layout.
 
I get it TheDuchess ;-) Kinda like I was saying earlier... we are here to discuss.... doesn't mean we believe everything thrown out there!

Since it's an alternate theory that apparently was even brought up by lawyers... I think it's worthy of being thrown into the Alternate theory thread in case something relevant to this guy pops up later.
 
So much of this negativity " could have " been avoided, IMO

I honestly do not believe it is ALL MAM.
I absolutely believe this documentary brought to light a terrible injustice, that just happened to make the Manitowoc department look terrible, and rightfully so.

Much of THAT along with this " reputation " could have been avoided had

The department not so OBVIOUSLY disregarded the rules and stayed OUT of the investigation. ( had that been one of us, going where LE said NOT to go, we'd been arrested )

Kratz had conducted himself as a professional

This department hadn't already LIED back in 1985. ( Call it what you want, some of them are and were, liars. )

All the documentary did, was bring this and more to light. MANY folks since, HAVE done research and STILL have an opinion that this is a VERY corrupt department.

When ya read articles that DNA " experts " are being looked into?
SEVERAL, DNA experts. Misconduct. Negligence.

Anyway,
No one deserves bomb threats, or to be threatened, period.

I DO understand, though, the anger & frustration with those involved with this case.

:clap::goodpost:
 
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