Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[Madeleine74]

I'm sitting here thinking anything is possible... intimidation OR they just didn;t care anymore at some point. After weeks of trial, failure to agree, arguing amongst themselves, possible distaste for another and the desire to just GO HOME?? Makes you also wonder if, at some point, they just fill out their cards and say SCREW IT.....?

I think it would be unfair to assume any jury that stays out deliberating more than a few hours is doing such a thing (i.e. saying "the heck with this I'll just fill out a card to end this"). Not saying it never happens, but just because a jury returns a verdict that people don't like doesn't mean they didn't deliberate together. Jurors take an oath and promise to follow the judge's instructions.

Would anyone here not take that oath seriously? Would anyone here refuse to deliberate or just say "the heck with it?" I wouldn't. I won't assume a jury did that.

 

[Madeleine74]

But wouldn't you expect that blood to have at least some mixture of the victim's blood as well?

No, I wouldn't necessarily expect anything because I don't know what happened or exactly how this went down.

If someone planted the blood, why didn't they mix some near or with TH's? Why only 6 little areas? They had a whole vile to work with, right? Why not spread it around in other places besides SUV?

It's unknowable because there were no witnesses to the crime and the perp never confessed or explained any of the evidence, so all anyone can do is see what the tests show and go from there.

 

[TheDuchess]

No, I wouldn't necessarily expect anything because I don't know what happened or exactly how this went down.

If someone planted the blood, why didn't they mix some near or with TH's? Why only 6 little areas? They had a whole vile to work with, right? Why not spread it around in other places besides SUV?

It's unknowable because there were no witnesses to the crime and the perp never confessed or explained any of the evidence, so all anyone can do is see what the tests show and go from there.

They had no source of blood for TH. Only SA. Also, they only needed to place SA in that vehicle. His blood or DNA in his home means nothing.

Amazing that there was a bloody murder and he bled all over the car, but her DNA wasn't present mixed in the blood? And only his DNA was on her key, but not hers? Hmmmm....

 

[Sinsaint]

I like her LOL it's like she is taunting MCSD/Kratz. I'm sure it's more about keeping it in the public, and keeping everyone's interest... but I do like that it seems that Kratz isn't shooting his mouth off still, unless I'm missing it, which, I'm ok with that too LOL

I have thought about the no blood/DNA mix (not in the RAV4, not on the key, or anywhere else), so it's nice to see her address that there was none.

I've been thinking. In order to open the hood you have to first release the hood lever from the inside of the vehicle. They usually require a good deal of force to pull on to get the lock to release, certainly enough force to leave some sweaty skin cells behind. I wonder if they ever swabbed that lever for DNA?

 

[Madeleine74]

They had no source of blood for TH. Only SA. Also, they only needed to place SA in that vehicle. His blood or DNA in his home means nothing.

Amazing that there was a bloody murder and he bled all over the car, but her DNA wasn't present mixed in the blood? And only his DNA was on her key, but not hers? Hmmmm....

Not so amazing at all. She was shot so her blood was from that wound. Her blood and hair were found in the SUV -- transfer from her own head in the back. She wasn't driving the SUV when she was shot. No source of blood for TH? It was right in the back of the SUV -- and since it's alleged LE planted SA's blood there, they would have had access to TH's blood, right?

I doubt SA was bleeding at that point. He had control of his gun. The time he might have gotten cut would be *if* he did something like cut her body into pieces. Then he was in contact with a sharp object. It's all about context. SA bleeding was probably after TH was already dead. The time the SUV was moved was after TH was dead and TH was (likely) not in the the SUV. He'd be interacting with other areas of the vehicle, not where TH's body was, at that point in time, as TH would have already been removed from her SUV and was being burned up and the SUV was being moved to it's resting spot.

 

[Jaiddie]

I think it would be unfair to assume any jury that stays out deliberating more than a few hours is doing such a thing (i.e. saying "the heck with this I'll just fill out a card to end this"). Not saying it never happens, but just because a jury returns a verdict that people don't like doesn't mean they didn't deliberate together. Jurors take an oath and promise to follow the judge's instructions.

Would anyone here not take that oath seriously? Would anyone here refuse to deliberate or just say "the heck with it?" I wouldn't. I won't assume a jury did that.

We also do not live in a place where the County Sheriff goes on national television to state that it would easier to KILL someone, rather than frame them.

 

[Jaiddie]

Not so amazing at all. She was shot so her blood was from that wound. Her blood and hair were found in the SUV -- transfer from her own head in the back. She wasn't driving the SUV when she was shot. No source of blood for TH? It was right in the back of the SUV -- and since it's alleged LE planted SA's blood there, they would have had access to TH's blood, right?

I doubt SA was bleeding at that point. He had control of his gun. The time he might have gotten cut would be *if* he did something like cut her body into pieces. Then he was in contact with a sharp object. It's all about context. SA bleeding was probably after TH was already dead. The time the SUV was moved was after TH was dead and TH was (likely) not in the the SUV. He'd be interacting with other areas of the vehicle, not where TH's body was, at that point in time, as TH would have already been removed from her SUV and was being burned up and the SUV was being moved to it's resting spot.

I realize that you are only theorizing what could have happened here, but the timeline is another thing about that night that defies logic. Only in the Twilight Zone could SA shoot her, cut her body up into pieces, burn her into TINY little charred pieces, all while ANYONE could come strolling in as this was a place of a PUBLIC business. And no one (besides convenient Brendan) ever sees this bloody, dismembering and burning going on or no one smells anything out of the ordianary. SA was able to do this dismembering and burning without leaving her DNA ANYWHERE except on a tiny fragment of a bullet.
Oh, yea, and SA was also able to receive and engage in TWO normal and teasing sounding phone calls from his fiancee in jail that were recorded, while all that cutting and burning was going on. smh.

 

[Sinsaint]

Not so amazing at all. She was shot so her blood was from that wound. Her blood and hair were found in the SUV -- transfer from her own head in the back. She wasn't driving the SUV when she was shot. No source of blood for TH? It was right in the back of the SUV -- and since it's alleged LE planted SA's blood there, they would have had access to TH's blood, right?

I doubt SA was bleeding at that point. He had control of his gun. The time he might have gotten cut would be *if* he did something like cut her body into pieces. Then he was in contact with a sharp object. It's all about context. SA bleeding was probably after TH was already dead. The time the SUV was moved was after TH was dead and TH was (likely) not in the the SUV. He'd be interacting with other areas of the vehicle, not where TH's body was, at that point in time, as TH would have already been removed from her SUV and was being burned up and the SUV was being moved to it's resting spot.

He stabs her, moves her to the garage, shoots her, moves her to the burn pit and then moves her vehicle to the pit. He's been handling a very bloody woman and leaves zero specks of her blood in the front of the truck? Impossible to believe.

 

[missy1974]

I've been thinking. In order to open the hood you have to first release the hood lever from the inside of the vehicle. They usually require a good deal of force to pull on to get the lock to release, certainly enough force to leave some sweaty skin cells behind. I wonder if they ever swabbed that lever for DNA?

uh huh... and not that I know of. And let's remember... they knew about the battery early on. It wasn't like they just found out in March that the battery was disconnected... well ... wait... it was magic key... maybe it started the RAV4 without the battery connected too :facepalm:
Certain area's to swab should have been a no brainer... the steering wheel, the gear shift, the lock button or individual locks, the hood release, the latch, the battery cable, the hood, the knob/button for headlights, the drivers side door (which did have TH's DNA on the interior, still not mixed with SA's). If you believe that he drove it, or anyone drove it, and the likelihood that it was at night.... what do you need to do when you are driving a vehicle at night, what would you touch if you are going into the passenger doors, what about the back door.

As for why not mix his blood with hers... #1 maybe they (general term for whoever could have planted it) didn't know her blood was there. #2 The back was not as accessible as the passenger side of that vehicle (look at the pictures, the passenger doors were easier to access then the the drivers side because of the other car beside it, the back door had branches leaning on it and I'm not sure how close it was to the car behind it?) All of the blood stains that were found could have been put in there by opening the passenger side doors.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He stabs her, moves her to the garage, shoots her, moves her to the burn pit and then moves her vehicle to the pit. He's been handling a very bloody woman and leaves zero specks of her blood in the front of the truck? Impossible to believe.

No it isn't. Not at all. All he had to do was change gloves, change clothes, Put something down and then burn it all. He was at home.. Who was going to get in his way? He had all the time in the world.

 

[missy1974]

Has anyone figured out when the vehicle was unlocked, and by who??? I still haven't found it in the transcripts.

 

[missy1974]

No it isn't. Not at all. All he had to do was change gloves, change clothes, Put something down and then burn it all. He was at home.. Who was going to get in his way? He had all the time in the world.

So, he would go in his home with bloody gloves, clothes, self, and they still don't find any trace of her in his home?

I disagree.... he had until 3 ... or 3:40.... or 5.... or 5:20, depending on who was coming and going. And they were open for business this day. He did not have all the time in the world, there was a constant stream of people coming in and out of there all evening. JMO

 

[Sinsaint]

No it isn't. Not at all. All he had to do was change gloves, change clothes, Put something down and then burn it all. He was at home.. Who was going to get in his way? He had all the time in the world.

But apparently not enough time to bandage his own wound? Why so much concern with making sure Halbach's blood wouldn't get in the front of her SUV but no concern at all for the fact he was leaving his blood all over the place?

 

[diesel]

uh huh... and not that I know of. And let's remember... they knew about the battery early on. It wasn't like they just found out in March that the battery was disconnected... well ... wait... it was magic key... maybe it started the RAV4 without the battery connected too :facepalm:
Certain area's to swab should have been a no brainer... the steering wheel, the gear shift, the lock button or individual locks, the hood release, the latch, the battery cable, the hood, the knob/button for headlights, the drivers side door (which did have TH's DNA on the interior, still not mixed with SA's). If you believe that he drove it, or anyone drove it, and the likelihood that it was at night.... what do you need to do when you are driving a vehicle at night, what would you touch if you are going into the passenger doors, what about the back door.

As for why not mix his blood with hers... #1 maybe they (general term for whoever could have planted it) didn't know her blood was there. #2 The back was not as accessible as the passenger side of that vehicle (look at the pictures, the passenger doors were easier to access then the the drivers side because of the other car beside it, the back door had branches leaning on it and I'm not sure how close it was to the car behind it?) All of the blood stains that were found could have been put in there by opening the passenger side doors.

Was TH's DNA found on the driver's door handle? Or anywhere on the exterior of the RAV 4 or her finger prints? I assume they would have had her prints from her home at least.

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't necessarily believe the stabbing scenario. We know TH was hit with 2 bullets, so that's confirmed. We know her blood and hair were found in the back of her SUV, so that fits with the gunshot wounds.

Have you seen how much land is around each trailer? More than I imagined. People make it sound like these folks lived on top of each other and that just wasn't the case. SA had room to place a body without anyone noticing. Right behind his trailer or garage, or in the garage. The burn pit is behind the garage. You have to make a point to walk back to that area.

Review where each person was that afternoon/evening. Not that many people were coming and going, and no one else besides BD and SA were at and tending to the bonfire at SA's.

Impossible for SA to accomplish? Not so impossible at all. He had the means and the opportunity. He had a bonfire that afternoon/evening, confirmed eventually by him. He was with the victim around the time she went missing. Too risky to murder TH? All murderers take risks, and many, if not most, get caught eventually. Sometimes it's a matter of opportunity -- the perp has someone right there, wants something from them, and ends up killing them.

 

[MysticJynx]

Here is the supposed letter the sheriff office got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1QMIR1cGgE&feature=youtu.be

 

[missy1974]

Was TH's DNA found on the driver's door handle? Or anywhere on the exterior of the RAV 4 or her finger prints? I assume they would have had her prints from her home at least.

her DNA was found on the interior driver door. There was blood spatter on the back of the RAV4 interior door, TH's. Her prints were not found, however, they did have 8 prints that were not matched up, a few on the inside passenger doors.... I think 1 on the hood, and I can't remember where the others were, but they only used certain standards to compare them too. I don't believe they were compared to any database, I don't believe they were compared to Colburn/Lenk. They did NOT have a standard for TH. They did find prints on bottles and a granola bar wrapper in her RAV4 (would those be TH's? no way to prove it, but most likely, and more importantly, they were NOT SA's or family) IIRC they also found unidentified male DNA somewhere.... can't remember where at the moment, but I want to say the back door.

Hope that helps.... I think I put the page numbers, etc for the fingerprint information in the other thread Colburn and Lenk....

 

[missy1974]

Here is the supposed letter the sheriff office got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1QMIR1cGgE&feature=youtu.be

uhmmm that looks like an Avery wrote it LOL what does Sikikey mean? Interesting that alunamon is crossed out! It's a hard word to spell.... LOL aluminum/aluminium (and say for some people)

(hmmm I wonder if we spell it different in Canada, it's getting underlined so I put both spellings LOL )

 

[MysticJynx]

uhmmm that looks like an Avery wrote it LOL what does Sikikey mean? Interesting that alunamon is crossed out! It's a hard word to spell.... LOL aluminum/aluminium (and say for some people)

(hmmm I wonder if we spell it different in Canada, it's getting underlined so I put both spellings LOL )

hey you made the word out and I had no idea what that word was. I was gonna go look for a location. hahah oops. Somewhere in WI with an a name near manitowoc. lol I am looking for the copy I just saw that wasn't in the video but I forgot to bookmark it. I will have to keep looking if I find a picture of the letter I will post it.

 

[missy1974]

I don't necessarily believe the stabbing scenario. We know TH was hit with 2 bullets, so that's confirmed. We know her blood and hair were found in the back of her SUV, so that fits with the gunshot wounds.

Have you seen how much land is around each trailer? More than I imagined. People make it sound like these folks lived on top of each other and that just wasn't the case. SA had room to place a body without anyone noticing. Right behind his trailer or garage, or in the garage. The burn pit is behind the garage. You have to make a point to walk back to that area.

Review where each person was that afternoon/evening. Not that many people were coming and going, and no one else besides BD and SA were at and tending to the bonfire at SA's.

Impossible for SA to accomplish? Not so impossible at all. He had the means and the opportunity. He had a bonfire that afternoon/evening, confirmed eventually by him. He was with the victim around the time she went missing. Too risky to murder TH? All murderers take risks, and many, if not most, get caught eventually. Sometimes it's a matter of opportunity -- the perp has someone right there, wants something from them, and ends up killing them.

This is exhibit 44... according to Bobby... it was taken from in front of his house.

Q Now, this exhibit, that is Exhibit 44, do you know about where this was taken from?

A This actually was taken right in front of our house.