New "Dateline" - 2010.11.12 Kyron Horman case

[mysterygirl]

Can someone give me a short rundown on MC.

I missed that one part on dateline.

I know from reading the threads that he is a high school friend of Kaine's but how did they hook up......gym?

And how does he feel about her now? (MC) There are so many threads, I don't know where to look.

TIA.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Ok,I'll go here.I will answer this question as honestly as I can.First of all NO ONE watches my kids but me or other family members.But from what I have seen and heard about Terri.I honestly would let her watch my kids.I take that very seriously when I say that.I've seen no neglect in pictures of these children.These children look very well cared for as does her home in the pictures.Other people has said she was very good to her baby and Kyron.I don't believe Terri was drunk on the couch and if she was I feel he was probably drinking just as much right along with her.I need to see his part in anything.I do believe it was mutual fighting between them.It takes two to tango.If she was drunk like this.I hold him very strongly accountable.He ALLOWED this to happen.Again I do not think this happened because no one heard about it.All I hear is Kaines allegations and I personally do not believe them and I don't want to hear him any more.As I said before I think her problem was with Kaine.NOT little Kyron.

Yes,I would let her watch my kids.I do not believe the BS that was said about her.

Thank you for answering, MsSuzanne. The question was not intended to sound 'about each other' but I felt it was relevant to the case. Meaning, some here feel she is innocent and if they honestly feel so, would they be comfortable having her watch their kids. Afterall, Kaine was comfortable with her, obviously, so it seemed fair to ask likewise of others here. Imo, it ties in with the case, since she was the last one to see him alive.

One thing I would like to share with you about alcoholics, is that they can function even though they are drunk. My cousin is an alcoholic, works in a body shop. Very good at what he does. He worked at the best bodyshop in northeast Ohio for several years.
During that time he ended up in jail for beating up his girlfriend while he was on a drunken episode. He was in jail for months. He did not get fired from this job for many years, even though the incident I mentioned above, happened after other incidents where he was jailed.
Not sure if you have ever been near a body shop, but the fumes are overwhelming. So even if he wasn't drinking before he went to work or during, he was still 'under the influence' because of the fumes. In spite of his intoxication, he was still able to do his job well.
The body shop eventually did let him go. His rounds at rehab during those years which he didn't benefit.
Btw, I have also heard of alcoholics who cannot function normally unless they are under the influence. Again, just some 'food for thought'.

 

[Aedrys]

I watched the Dateline show last night and was totally riveted to the screen the whole time.

I have come away with one nagging observation:

Gwen described seeing Terri at the gym on June 4 and said she look tired, exhausted, unhappy, etc. I realize Gwen said she looked like this a lot of the
time, but what concerns me is how she looked that particular day of June 4.

Because we've also heard from someone else who saw Terri that same morning, Andrea at the Fred Myers. This would have been only an hour and a half before (or something like that) before Terri showed up at the gym. My memory of what Andrea said is that Terri was talkative and unusually outgoing, and even showed her pics of Kyron taken earlier that morning. I got the impression of a very "up" Terri who was going out of her way to
to be friendly...not someone who was feeling awful and was obviously unhappy.

What I'm wondering is what happened between Andrea's unexpected encounter with Terri at Fred Myers, and Gwen's encounter with her a short time later that would have created this drastic change in Terri's demeanor.

Just driving around????

That is not only alarming, but a seriously good question. Maybe what she did to Kyron wasn't as satisfying or easy as she thought it would be? I have the feeling she thought it would be a straight 1,2,3 sort of thing, and she'd be done and be relieved it was done. It sounds like it wasn't like that at all. Maybe there were things she hadn't thought about that came up, like the guy mowing the soccer field. Or maybe it wasn't as clean or neat as she would have liked.

Or, maybe what she had done was weighing on her at that moment? Maybe she was regretting what she did, and knew it wasn't going to help her marriage or make things better? Maybe she was having some sort of hindsight and wishing she hadn't done what she did? Maybe she was worried she might actually get caught for what she did?

I am very curious about what you talked about, happy and outgoing with one friend, but the total opposite with the gym employee. She sounds almost manic-depressive, really UP UP UP at one time, and then WAAAAAAY down just a few hours later. I'm more than ever convinced that she did something to Kyron now. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Aedrys]

I agree. I wasn't able to watch the episode, but saw the web exclusive with Kaine. He does look less vigorous than he did in summer. Is it just me or does he also have no eyebrows??

He has very light colored eyebrows. Before this goes somewhere it shouldn't, I am pointing this out to everyone. It's been talked about before. Some people have such light eyebrows that they aren't easily seen. It doesn't mean he's shaving them or anything else.

 

[SurfieTX]

That is not only alarming, but a seriously good question. Maybe what she did to Kyron wasn't as satisfying or easy as she thought it would be? I have the feeling she thought it would be a straight 1,2,3 sort of thing, and she'd be done and be relieved it was done. It sounds like it wasn't like that at all. Maybe there were things she hadn't thought about that came up, like the guy mowing the soccer field. Or maybe it wasn't as clean or neat as she would have liked.

Or, maybe what she had done was weighing on her at that moment? Maybe she was regretting what she did, and knew it wasn't going to help her marriage or make things better? Maybe she was having some sort of hindsight and wishing she hadn't done what she did? Maybe she was worried she might actually get caught for what she did?

I am very curious about what you talked about, happy and outgoing with one friend, but the total opposite with the gym employee. She sounds almost manic-depressive, really UP UP UP at one time, and then WAAAAAAY down just a few hours later. I'm more than ever convinced that she did something to Kyron now. Thanks for pointing that out!

It does coincide with what Kaine said in his affidavit about her having (paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact quote) severe emotional problems or something to that effect.

 

[Trt]

Trt, my memory and notes differ. I didn't hear her say that Terri "looked" unstable, or that she "always" seemed unstable. My memory and notes are that she was saying that Terri was emotional (demeanor), then said the word unstable.

My memory and notes are that she said Terri "looked" exhausted, and that was kind of separate from the emotional/unstable/wearing emotions on her sleeve stuff.

The last Dateline had a transcript posted a few days after it aired. Hopefully we'll get both a video and a transcript for this one too.

ETA: Looks like JBean transcribed it:

Ok thank you...it was "often" that Terri was unstable and not "always". I still think that is very odd for someone's demeanor to be described that way. The context was that it was not abnormal for Terri to seem this way. I find it odd that her gym buddy would comment that "often unstable" was a normal thing for Terri. That is not a great way to appear "often".

Jmo

 

[PDXMom]

I thought she looked that way at the first press conference....

I agree. Yet, curiously, she appears stable as granite now. "Ice in her veins", a former police chief said. That directly contradicts the idea that she wore her emotions on her sleeve. Is it because she's away from Kaine? Is it because she's now got a clear goal: stay outta jail? Isn't rattled by small children to care for? Kaine didn't seem to be able to keep her (through her friends and FB) quiet at the beginning, but somehow Houze is doing a remarkable job of it. Could an emotionally unstable person all of a sudden become very stable AFTER committing a heinous crime? Can she be so unstable that she dissociated herself from that-woman-who-did-that-crime? Of course we don't know what she's like in her home or in Houze's office. Which could very well be why she's been advised to shut up.

 

[Aedrys]

It does coincide with what Kaine said in his affidavit about her having (paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact quote) severe emotional problems or something to that effect.

Yes, and someone with severe emotional problems shouldn't be handling children. I find myself almost agreeing that Kaine should have done something sooner. Either he kept telling himself that everything would be okay, or she kept telling him everything would be okay. Or maybe he thought it would get worse if he tried to get something done about it. Maybe he suggested something, like hiring a nanny, and got a really negative response from Terri. A lot of times, those with severe emotional problems get worse if there's changes. If Kaine was thinking about hiring a nanny or something like that, Terri might think he was questioning her mothering skills, and more fights would ensue. He was probably walking on eggshells around her and as long as the kids seemed to be okay, he wasn't going to light Terri's fuse. We just don't know what was going on here, but I'm sure Kaine is kicking himself everyday for not doing something sooner. I feel so bad for him.

 

[liz b.]

Exactly...Kaine, Desiree and Tony all gave Terri the benefit of the doubt for three weeks, even though they now admit that things she was saying didn't add up. They were concerned that LE wanted to talk to her so much in the beginning. But they waited, hoping against hope that her story would check out and LE could move on to who *really* took Kyron.

I can't imagine what an acceptable threshold would be for deciding that someone would finally get their story right for LE, but for me, I'd think it would be after LE told me that they uncovered evidence that the person tried to have me killed. At that point, it would have to dawn on me that this person isn't going to talk.

Jmo

" Kaine,Desiree and Tony all gave Terri the benefit of the doubt for three weeks ".... But,IIRC, Desiree did state that she felt Terri was involved when she got the phone call saying Kyron was missing ? Be interesting to explore why she felt that so quickly,IMO

All JMO

 

[Aedrys]

" Kaine,Desiree and Tony all gave Terri the benefit of the doubt for three weeks ".... But,IIRC, Desiree did state that she felt Terri was involved when she got the phone call saying Kyron was missing ? Be interesting to explore why she felt that so quickly,IMO

All JMO

Well, she didn't like the woman but was putting up with her. She probably did think it was Terri at first because of that, but I'm sure she felt guilty about that and then had thoughts that it couldn't be Terri because Terri took a lot of care of Kyron. I bet she went back and forth it with it for a long while, and yeah, in hindsight, she can say she knew when she got that phone call.

Even I do things like that (not with murder, but with other things that happen and I immediately want to blame the person I don't like for it), but sometimes I am wrong. I just went there because I didn't like the person, so it had to be them. I think Desiree had the same thought process, and how horrible for her that she's probably right this time...

 

[AlexisFresca]

" Kaine,Desiree and Tony all gave Terri the benefit of the doubt for three weeks ".... But,IIRC, Desiree did state that she felt Terri was involved when she got the phone call saying Kyron was missing ? Be interesting to explore why she felt that so quickly,IMO

All JMO

Imo, part of that was due to Kyron crying when it was time for him to return to Kaine after having been with Desiree for a weekend. I remember her saying something to the affect that when she heard Terri's account of school that day (like waving bye to Kyron from down the hall) that right then and there there was a red flag, she said, due to her knowledge of the layout of the school. Desi was implying that Terri's statement wasn't factual.

Another red flag went up when it was the school who notified Desiree that Kyron was missing, and not Terri. I can totally understand that. Why didn't Terri just call Desi herself? Or even the police? No, Terri had the school contact both. Very telling, imo.

 

[debs]

Imo, part of that was due to Kyron crying when it was time for him to return to Kaine after having been with Desiree for a weekend. I remember her saying something to the affect that when she heard Terri's account of school that day (like waving bye to Kyron from down the hall) that right then and there there was a red flag, she said, due to her knowledge of the layout of the school. Desi was implying that Terri's statement wasn't factual.

Another red flag went up when it was the school who notified Desiree that Kyron was missing, and not Terri. I can totally understand that. Why didn't Terri just call Desi herself? Or even the police? No, Terri had the school contact both. Very telling, imo.

Why didn't Kaine call Desiree himself? In fact, Desiree was informed that Terri was "right here" by the secretary. Why didn't Desiree ask for Terri to be put on the phone instead of hanging up with the school and calling Terri's number? Why didn't Desiree call Kaine?

All these questions are moot. The way it happened wasn't conducted by Terri. Everyone had things they were doing and they did them the way it was done.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Why didn't Kaine call Desiree himself? In fact, Desiree was informed that Terri was "right here" by the secretary. Why didn't Desiree ask for Terri to be put on the phone instead of hanging up with the school and calling Terri's number? Why didn't Desiree call Kaine?

All these questions are moot. The way it happened wasn't conducted by Terri. Everyone had things they were doing and they did them the way it was done.

Putting myself in that situation, I can understand why she called Terri. Terri was the last one to see Kyron that day, not Kaine. So its only logical to assume that Terri would know more about what was going on, instead of Kaine.
In addition, I also understand her hanging up and calling Terri on her cell.

I don't understand the part in bold??

 

[angelainwi]

I watched the Dateline show last night and was totally riveted to the screen the whole time.

I have come away with one nagging observation:

Gwen described seeing Terri at the gym on June 4 and said she look tired, exhausted, unhappy, etc. I realize Gwen said she looked like this a lot of the
time, but what concerns me is how she looked that particular day of June 4.

Because we've also heard from someone else who saw Terri that same morning, Andrea at the Fred Myers. This would have been only an hour and a half before (or something like that) before Terri showed up at the gym. My memory of what Andrea said is that Terri was talkative and unusually outgoing, and even showed her pics of Kyron taken earlier that morning. I got the impression of a very "up" Terri who was going out of her way to
to be friendly...not someone who was feeling awful and was obviously unhappy.

What I'm wondering is what happened between Andrea's unexpected encounter with Terri at Fred Myers, and Gwen's encounter with her a short time later that would have created this drastic change in Terri's demeanor.

Just driving around????

If I had a fussy toddler, who possibly woke up early or did not sleep well the night before because of teething and then I was trying to drive around to get her to sleep for a long time and she still would not settle down, I would be exhausted and not in the best of moods by the time I got to the gym. And probably knowing that by the time I got done working out baby K would be still fussy and we would have to go home and deal with another night of fussiness.

 

[Trt]

" Kaine,Desiree and Tony all gave Terri the benefit of the doubt for three weeks ".... But,IIRC, Desiree did state that she felt Terri was involved when she got the phone call saying Kyron was missing ? Be interesting to explore why she felt that so quickly,IMO

All JMO

I think her thoughts were "she better not have done anything to him." or something similar. But she also said that things Terri were saying didn't sound right because she knew the school. So it was probably a little dislike for the woman that *stole her man* and Terri's story not adding up from jump(Tony mentioned how that evening when he explained how things would be for them in the next few days, Terri's response was off). They all showed great restraint
in the first few weeks and yet Terri still didn't get her story right. Jmo

 

[liz b.]

I think her thoughts were "she better not have done anything to him." or something similar. But she also said that things Terri were saying didn't sound right because she knew the school. So it was probably a little dislike for the woman that *stole her man* and Terri's story not adding up from jump(Tony mentioned how that evening when he explained how things would be for them in the next few days, Terri's response was off). They all showed great restraint
in the first few weeks and yet Terri still didn't get her story right. Jmo

Respectfully, do we actually know that Terri "stole" Kaine ? As my grandma used to say "takes two to tango "... And, I've always wondered how Desiree could be so emphatic about "knowing that school really well " ?

ETA : Thinking "she better not have done anything to him " is not exactly "giving Terri the benefit of the doubt"...MOO

 

[AlexisFresca]

Why would that be hard to believe? She's bound to have been at some of the school's functions.

 

[debs]

Respectfully, do we actually know that Terri "stole" Kaine ? As my grandma used to say "takes two to tango "... And, I've always wondered how Desiree could be so emphatic about "knowing that school really well " ?

I'm sure she spent a lot of time up there attending his school programs and such. Her other son lives in the area, too, so when either of them has big school events, perhaps she made that 5 hour drive up to attend them.

 

[citigirl]

Desiree once lived in the neighborhood, as I recall. Her other son may have attended that school...

 

[Cazzie]

I agree. This is someone that has sympathy for Terri's position. I wish she could have followed up with that, because it's REALLy odd to describe someone looking like that "always."

She said Terri always look tired. She didn't say that Terri always looked "unstable". (and I'm not defending Terri, by any means)