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@Richard ... Were their any suspected pieces ever come ashore.
New Guinea - Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan, en route to Howland Island, 2 July 1937
- Thread starter Dark Knight
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Not that I know of.
The Electra contained extra fuel tanks, which were running low on fuel by her estimated time of arrival (ETA) at Howland Island. Those tanks being close to empty of fuel would have provided much buoyancy to the plane in the water.
There is almost no doubt that the plane went down as a direct result of the low fuel, and their failure to find Howland. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they flew the plane until the engines quit.
All long range pilots and navigators monitor their fuel status very closely and take necessary steps to seek alternate emergency landing sites.
At a given point, the aviator has to make a decision and carry out a plan. In this case, I would think they decided to seek another island or lagoon to set down on before fuel was exhausted.
A major problem was Amelia's poor communication skills. She should have been broadcasting in the blind her positions, headings, airspeed and intentions.
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There are not many close islands east of Howland Island.
Amelia and Fred had passed by or over the Gilbert's on their way to Howland, so a likely scenario for them when unsuccessful in finding Howland or the USCG cutter Itasca, would have been to turn to the west and seek an alternate spot to land or ditch in friendly (not Japanese held) territory.
If, for some reason, they were actually north of Howland at ETA- turning to the west would have brought them into the Marshall Islands. These were part of a larger group of Pacific islands previously owned by Germany, which were "Mandated" by the League of Nations after WW I and assigned to Japan to administer.
By 1937, Japan considered them to be Japanese owned territory and had begun to fortify them, building runways, radio stations, gun emplacements, ammunition dumps, docks, troop quarters, food storage buildings, water cisterns, etc.
The Imperial Japanese Army and Navy , based on Saipan, ran the area with an iron fist and arrested or detained anyone caught "trespassing".
It is strongly believed by some that Amelia and Fred survived a landing or ditching and were captured by the Japanese.
Amelia and Fred had passed by or over the Gilbert's on their way to Howland, so a likely scenario for them when unsuccessful in finding Howland or the USCG cutter Itasca, would have been to turn to the west and seek an alternate spot to land or ditch in friendly (not Japanese held) territory.
If, for some reason, they were actually north of Howland at ETA- turning to the west would have brought them into the Marshall Islands. These were part of a larger group of Pacific islands previously owned by Germany, which were "Mandated" by the League of Nations after WW I and assigned to Japan to administer.
By 1937, Japan considered them to be Japanese owned territory and had begun to fortify them, building runways, radio stations, gun emplacements, ammunition dumps, docks, troop quarters, food storage buildings, water cisterns, etc.
The Imperial Japanese Army and Navy , based on Saipan, ran the area with an iron fist and arrested or detained anyone caught "trespassing".
It is strongly believed by some that Amelia and Fred survived a landing or ditching and were captured by the Japanese.
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Here is a very recent video claiming that pieces of Amelia's plane may have been filmed on the ocean floor near a Pacific Island.
I would take the video's conclusions with a few grains of salt, since there have been so many others over the years. But the video does contain a lot of very interesting images of Amelia, Fred, and their plane.
Note that many images used in the video, including the one at the start, are NOT of the Lockheed Electra.
LINK:
I would take the video's conclusions with a few grains of salt, since there have been so many others over the years. But the video does contain a lot of very interesting images of Amelia, Fred, and their plane.
Note that many images used in the video, including the one at the start, are NOT of the Lockheed Electra.
LINK:
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AUG 25, 2024
Nearly 90 years after Amelia Earhart's mission to fly around the world ended in mystery, a team of explorers now believes they may have discovered the location of her missing plane
Amelia Earhart's missing plane's location may finally be found
Nearly 90 years after Amelia Earhart's mission to fly around the world ended in mystery, a team of explorers now believes they may have discovered the location of her missing plane
www.usatoday.com
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This is interesting stuff. They are vague intentionally about the location but what they are saying for general location would make sense. I hope they can get back to follow up soon.AUG 25, 2024
Nearly 90 years after Amelia Earhart's mission to fly around the world ended in mystery, a team of explorers now believes they may have discovered the location of her missing planeAmelia Earhart's missing plane's location may finally be found
Nearly 90 years after Amelia Earhart's mission to fly around the world ended in mystery, a team of explorers now believes they may have discovered the location of her missing planewww.usatoday.com
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This was first reported back in January:
New Guinea - Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan, en route to Howland Island, 2 July 1937
See also:
www.smithsonianmag.com
I just did a brief search, but not finding any updates since then.
New Guinea - Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan, en route to Howland Island, 2 July 1937
See also:
Have Researchers Found Amelia Earhart's Long-Lost Plane?
A new sonar image shows an airplane-shaped object resting on the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, not far from where Earhart and her navigator, Fred Noonan, went missing in 1937
I just did a brief search, but not finding any updates since then.
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I remember seeing it back then. I am guessing it will take time to secure funding to go back. It is interesting that today Pop Mechanics had an article about TIGHAR and their belief she went to Gardner Island and isn't everyone believing them.This was first reported back in January:
New Guinea - Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan, en route to Howland Island, 2 July 1937
See also:
Have Researchers Found Amelia Earhart's Long-Lost Plane?
A new sonar image shows an airplane-shaped object resting on the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, not far from where Earhart and her navigator, Fred Noonan, went missing in 1937
I just did a brief search, but not finding any updates since then.
An old book which would be of interest to anyone researching the Amelia Earhart disappearance would be "Amelia Earhart: The Final Story" by Vincent Loomis.
The author goes into much detail about her final flight and particularly into her radios and their capabilities.
Loomis was of the opinion that Amelia and Fred ditched the aircraft near Barre Island in Mili atoll, which is in the Marshall Islands. He felt that they were captured by the Japanese military and held as spies before they died.
He based his theory on many interviews he conducted with Marshallese native people and with his attempts to view official US and Japanese records.
The author goes into much detail about her final flight and particularly into her radios and their capabilities.
Loomis was of the opinion that Amelia and Fred ditched the aircraft near Barre Island in Mili atoll, which is in the Marshall Islands. He felt that they were captured by the Japanese military and held as spies before they died.
He based his theory on many interviews he conducted with Marshallese native people and with his attempts to view official US and Japanese records.
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In all the reports I have read and podcasts I've heard and shows I've seen, I have seen reference and excerpts from this book. I guess I should just find it and read it fully for myself.
I am still of the mindset that most likely she and Fred ran out of gas trying to find Howland. But I am open to other evidence. I initially thought the idea of her being captured by the Japanese as just a crazy idea. But over the years as I have seen more of the evidence in support of the theory, the more I think it it certainly a very real possibility. There are certainly a LOT of witnesses who testify to seeing her and/or Fred or seeing evidence of them being in the Marshalls, including Admiral Nimitz saying she had been captured. Just no real physical evidence as yet.
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I agree, it seems very possible given history and events at that time. Admiral Nimitz believing it would be rather convincing, JMO. I mean, he was Admiral Nimitz. He knew everything about the South Pacific and what the Japanese were and weren't doing there at that time.
ETA: I'm also seeing in the research that Gen. Vandergrift believed it, too. Here I go back down the Earhart rabbit hole again. It's a fascinating topic. Both of my grandmother's brothers died in the South Pacific in WWII. I've researched the battles, etc. and it's such a vast open area of ocean with little out there except some small islands. Would you feel so lost and alone out there? So far from anywhere, like being in outer space almost. I would have felt overwhelmed being out there in the middle of nowhere. Just ruminating.
ETA2: Links with transcripts of Gen. Vandergrift's letters. He says he was told by Maj. Gen. Tommy Watson, who said it had been substantiated after the invasion of Saipan.
General’s letters to Goerner reveal Earhart truth
Even casual observers of the Earhart saga are familiar with the statement allegedly made by Navy Adm. Chester W. Nimitz, then retired but still bound by classified information laws, to Fred Goerner…
earharttruth.wordpress.com
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The last leg of Amelia Earhart's round the world flight is most often depicted as a straight line on a chart, as seen in the below illustration. This particular one was published by the TIGHAR outfit which believes that she ended up on Gardner Island (now called Nikumaroro), which is located south of Howland Island.
Her actual track, however (as discussed in the Loomis book), was slightly north of that straight line course. She flew first over Nukumanu, and then to Nauru, where she reported seeing the lights which were on to guide her. She also had been heard broadcasting on radio at both islands. Her course from Nauru toward Howland would have taken her over the Gilbert Islands (British owned) during night darkness. There were two very strong British run radio stations in the Gilberts, but they were not asked to assist in her flight.
A Line of Position (LOP) on the sun at sunrise, charted as a line perpendicular to her intended course, would have plotted out as 157 degrees/ 337 degrees - as seen on the maps. Amelia reported that she was on this LOP and flying north and south trying to locate Howland Island (or the Cutter Itasca near it). It is that LOP, which happens to fall through Gardner/Nikumaroro that bolsters support for those who believe she landed or ditched there.
Some researchers (like Loomis) feel that she may have been off course to the left far enough to not see smoke sent up by Itasca. And of course, radio direction finding was not working out. Amelia had previously ended up north of course during her Atlantic crossing and had to land at an alternate field. A navigator who had previously flown with her during flight tests of the Electra stated that she had a tendency to fly 3 degrees left of compass headings she was given.
Her stated intention to others prior to her last leg of flight was that if she failed to find Howland, she would fly back to the Gilberts and seek a suitable landing site. IF she was far enough left of course, and north of Howland, taking a heading to the west would have taken her instead to the Marshall Islands, which were Japanese controlled. Many Marshallese testified that she ditched her aircraft near Barre Island in the Mili atoll, and that she and Fred Noonan were picked up by the Japanese Navy.
Her actual track, however (as discussed in the Loomis book), was slightly north of that straight line course. She flew first over Nukumanu, and then to Nauru, where she reported seeing the lights which were on to guide her. She also had been heard broadcasting on radio at both islands. Her course from Nauru toward Howland would have taken her over the Gilbert Islands (British owned) during night darkness. There were two very strong British run radio stations in the Gilberts, but they were not asked to assist in her flight.
A Line of Position (LOP) on the sun at sunrise, charted as a line perpendicular to her intended course, would have plotted out as 157 degrees/ 337 degrees - as seen on the maps. Amelia reported that she was on this LOP and flying north and south trying to locate Howland Island (or the Cutter Itasca near it). It is that LOP, which happens to fall through Gardner/Nikumaroro that bolsters support for those who believe she landed or ditched there.
Some researchers (like Loomis) feel that she may have been off course to the left far enough to not see smoke sent up by Itasca. And of course, radio direction finding was not working out. Amelia had previously ended up north of course during her Atlantic crossing and had to land at an alternate field. A navigator who had previously flown with her during flight tests of the Electra stated that she had a tendency to fly 3 degrees left of compass headings she was given.
Her stated intention to others prior to her last leg of flight was that if she failed to find Howland, she would fly back to the Gilberts and seek a suitable landing site. IF she was far enough left of course, and north of Howland, taking a heading to the west would have taken her instead to the Marshall Islands, which were Japanese controlled. Many Marshallese testified that she ditched her aircraft near Barre Island in the Mili atoll, and that she and Fred Noonan were picked up by the Japanese Navy.
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The above post shows a more detailed map of the islands around Howland. Amelia and Fred were approaching the area from the west, roughly depicted by the dotted line passing through the Gilberts.
If they were to the right of course and passing Howland to the South, then they would have been near Gardner Island - as some theorize. If they were left of course and North of Howland the same distance as Gardner, then turning west would have brought her into the Marshalls where she could have ditched at or near Mili atoll (seen on the map just north of the Gilberts) - as believed by many Marshallese and other researchers.
Below is a photo of a series of postage stamps printed in the Marshall Islands to commemorate an Amelia Earhart landing they believe took place there.
Note that the last stamp depicts Fred (with an injured leg) and Amelia in the bottom right corner under guard by a Japanese officer.
If they were to the right of course and passing Howland to the South, then they would have been near Gardner Island - as some theorize. If they were left of course and North of Howland the same distance as Gardner, then turning west would have brought her into the Marshalls where she could have ditched at or near Mili atoll (seen on the map just north of the Gilberts) - as believed by many Marshallese and other researchers.
Below is a photo of a series of postage stamps printed in the Marshall Islands to commemorate an Amelia Earhart landing they believe took place there.
Note that the last stamp depicts Fred (with an injured leg) and Amelia in the bottom right corner under guard by a Japanese officer.
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I guess the search continues.
www.popularmechanics.com
A Mysterious Image Was Supposed to Be Amelia Earhart’s Plane. Searchers Found Only an Illusion.
“I guess that’s life.”
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It was just a rock formation. But the searchers should call it "Amelia Earhart Rock" or "Earhart Rock". It looks so much like her plane.I guess the search continues.
A Mysterious Image Was Supposed to Be Amelia Earhart’s Plane. Searchers Found Only an Illusion.
“I guess that’s life.”
A number of Marshall Islanders, and residents of the Marianas Island of Saipan in the 1930's and 40's have related stories and eyewitness testimony regarding the 1937 Japanese military capture and imprisonment of two white "pilots"; a man and a woman.
Although the various accounts might differ slightly, the basic facts are fairly consistent.
Considered as a whole, a scenario emerges in which Amelia Earhart and her Navigator, Fred Noonan, either land or ditch the plane on or alongside Barre Island of Mili Atoll. Fred sustains a head and knee injury.
They are picked up by a small fishing boat, and transferred to a larger Japanese ship, Koshu. Another boat towing a barge recovers the aircraft and all are transported to Jaluit Island. A Marshallese medic, Amaron Billimon, treats Fred's injuries aboard Koshu.
Koshu departs Jaluit for Kwajalin and then to Truk with Amelia and Fred aboard. From Truk, they are flown In a large two engine Japanese Navy seaplane to Saipan. The plane has a water landing mishap in the harbor, which causes some eyewitnesses who see Amelia and Fred being brought ashore, to think that they were the pilots of the seaplane.
Different eyewitness accounts state that Fred and Amelia (although their names are not known at the time to them) are held at a two story hotel in Garipan and/or at a small jail in that capital city where they are interrogated as "spies". Gregorio Sablan, a Saipanese civilian who speaks Japanese and English (besides his native Chamorran language) is present.
Stories of their eventual fates differ. Some say they were executed. Others say Fred was killed and Amelia died of illness. Others state that they both were held for years and then flown to Japan during World War II.
A number of US soldiers and Marines claimed to have seen Amelia's Lockheed Electra 10E aircraft in a Japanese hangar at Aslito Field, Saipan - and that it was removed from the hangar and intentionally destroyed by burning on the ramp or runway. This occurred days after Saipan was taken by the US military in July 1944.
Other Marines have sworn that about that same time (July 1944) they were detailed to disenterr bones from a Saipan cemetery, and were led to believe they were the graves of Fred and Amelia. What became of them is not known.
A number of books and articles have been written supporting this basic scenario.
Although the various accounts might differ slightly, the basic facts are fairly consistent.
Considered as a whole, a scenario emerges in which Amelia Earhart and her Navigator, Fred Noonan, either land or ditch the plane on or alongside Barre Island of Mili Atoll. Fred sustains a head and knee injury.
They are picked up by a small fishing boat, and transferred to a larger Japanese ship, Koshu. Another boat towing a barge recovers the aircraft and all are transported to Jaluit Island. A Marshallese medic, Amaron Billimon, treats Fred's injuries aboard Koshu.
Koshu departs Jaluit for Kwajalin and then to Truk with Amelia and Fred aboard. From Truk, they are flown In a large two engine Japanese Navy seaplane to Saipan. The plane has a water landing mishap in the harbor, which causes some eyewitnesses who see Amelia and Fred being brought ashore, to think that they were the pilots of the seaplane.
Different eyewitness accounts state that Fred and Amelia (although their names are not known at the time to them) are held at a two story hotel in Garipan and/or at a small jail in that capital city where they are interrogated as "spies". Gregorio Sablan, a Saipanese civilian who speaks Japanese and English (besides his native Chamorran language) is present.
Stories of their eventual fates differ. Some say they were executed. Others say Fred was killed and Amelia died of illness. Others state that they both were held for years and then flown to Japan during World War II.
A number of US soldiers and Marines claimed to have seen Amelia's Lockheed Electra 10E aircraft in a Japanese hangar at Aslito Field, Saipan - and that it was removed from the hangar and intentionally destroyed by burning on the ramp or runway. This occurred days after Saipan was taken by the US military in July 1944.
Other Marines have sworn that about that same time (July 1944) they were detailed to disenterr bones from a Saipan cemetery, and were led to believe they were the graves of Fred and Amelia. What became of them is not known.
A number of books and articles have been written supporting this basic scenario.
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The "Japanese Capture" theories ( there are several versions of how it happened) are interesting. I ordinally never gave them much credence until I actually started to look into them. There are LOTS of eye witnesses, US Army and Marine observations and even Admiral Nimitz believe the Japanese had held them. But the physical evidence is lacking.
