New Search 9/12/2011

[snupy]

Somebody PLEASE find a link to the press conference from today!


I don't have an exact quote (can't find it online) but in today's press conference Chuck Cox stated something to the effect of finding all they could here and then moving on to somewhere else if needed. I have to think and believe that if LE was certain that there was a body still there in this grave that they would be at least giving more information to Mr. Cox than they are to the public. From what I witnessed today I do not believe that Chuck Cox thinks Susan is there. After all, Mr. Cox is Susan's dad. If she is in that grave still and LE believed that then I would like to think that LE would be maybe even telling Mr. Cox that he might want to bring his wife to SLC and be prepared for the upcoming moments. I just don't sense that sense of finalness and closure in the air of the words being said (and the words that are NOT being said also).

LE also made a quote (going from memory here sorry) about continuing to remove and sift the dirt from the hole until the dogs quit showing there are remains in the hole. IMO- IF there is a body there- wouldn't they quit when the BODY was visually seen and then go onto removing the body? It just seemed a strange way to word things- sifting till the dogs quit giving a hit on the hole. (Again, not word for word- going on memory)

Earlier this morning I was wavering a tiny bit on my theory of Josh having moved Susan on his 2nd "camping trip." After hearing the press conference today I am sticking to my theory. I know it isn't a popular one but the more I am aware of specific wording being chosen by LE and now Chuck Cox, I am sticking to it. I think Susan was in this grave. I think Josh moved her. I think there will be enough proof to show Susan was in the grave (dogs are smart, they aren't hitting on this for no reason) and I think, hope, and pray that somehow someway an arrest will be made soon.

http://www.fox13now.com/videobeta/e...ives-at-Topaz-location-talks-to-media-Sept-16

Press conference with Chuck Cox

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I think there are a few things that led them to search Topaz.

1. GPS. I'm positive that there has been a GPS on JP's vehicles since day one. I know what the press has said, but it is in the best interest of the PD if they come across to JP as bumbling. He is a narcissist and they're appealing to his ego. If they seem like they're incompetent, it reinforces his beliefs and he's more likely to slip up, which I believe he has. The GPS is probably integrated into the system of the car, which is hard to detect even by mechanics. It would also mean they don't have to dump the GPS physically, and it reports remotely. I imagine the sealed warrant says something like the GPS will be attached to any car JP owns or has access to, and that would allow it to move vehicles if he sold the van.

2. The Washington search. Yes, I do believe something led them from this search. Maybe something you wouldn't suspect, like a book or brochure. It could also be a receipt or a piece of notepad paper with an address on it. But also, as I mentioned in another comment, electronic data doesn't disappear with the click of a mouse. It is still easily retrieved by a trained computer forensic scientist. Based off what I see in his websites that he has maintained, I don't believe he is skilled enough to hide his files from scientists. Additionally, a warrant can be served to his internet provider in either state to hand over logs, which are kept by ISPs.

3. Pattern behavior plays a role in this. Both of them are textbook narcissists and I imagine have visited this site, searched for it, or mentioned it somehow in their diaries. I think they both felt SP's house would never be searched, and as such, it was probably a gold mine to investigators. Whatever the piece of evidence that the PD took a closer look at during the end phase of the warrant execution is probably what led them to Topaz.

BBM. Do you know of such warrants being given to do something like that? TIA.

 

[DLT88]

Thank you for this piece of information about his moving in with his father within 1 month of her disappearance.

People with a big secret they could go to jail for band together - has there been any possible linking of Steven Powell in this crime? I am 99.9% certain he currently knows the score that JP murdered Susan, but how long has he known that? Has there been any good sleuthing on this possibility that I could get a link to? TIA.

Yes, isn't that aiding and abetting?

 

[Pensfan]

Thank you for this. It is my understanding that JP is the only person of interest in this case, so it makes sense his dad has an alibi in another state.

I am speculating but want to understand fully that JP's dad was not involved in premeditated murder. We have numerous and voluminous reports of his obsession with Susan (heck he even admits it 3 weeks ago), so it definitely bears the question "Did he partake in the plot to murder Susan Powell?"

How about obstruction of justice? Surely there is something for which he could go to prison. :dance:

 

[Oriah]

http://www.fox13now.com/videobeta/e...ives-at-Topaz-location-talks-to-media-Sept-16

Press conference with Chuck Cox

I am so confused. And my heart breaks for Susan's family.
Something is very, very off here.

 

[Jacie Estes]

It's not semantics when that "human remains" is your family member.
"We found human remains" tells you there is a body there and it might be YOUR loved one.

"We think that we might have human remains here if we dig deep enough" does not tell you that. <snipped>

My cousin was murdered, shot in the head for his truck and my SIL's brother was murdered in a horrible tortured manner when his condo was robbed. I understand the pain that is felt; it is even more frustrating when you get to court and the words 'plea bargain' come into play.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

How about obstruction of justice?

Yes. I am suspicious of even more than that. Just speculation.

Take a look at some of his lyrics that are reportedly about her:

In one song called "Waiting For You," Powell writes, "I could be getting a mistaken impression, Each time you seem to gaze at me. You let me touch you softly. ‘Why?' is the question."

Powell wrote this for the song "To Be With You":

"If there were simple answers for a way to be with you There isn't much I wouldn't try or much I wouldn't do."
Powell wrote another song called, "I'm Missing You," where he writes,

"I can love you in a secret way. I can love you each and every day. There is nothing I can't see. There is nothing you can't be. It's not perfect, but I'm missing you!"

And this from an ex:

“Susan was the focal point of the songs he wrote and that are posted on the Steve Chantrey website. Those are but a few of the many more songs written about Susan,” Sandy said.

“He is pining for a love he never could have,” she said.

“Steve was very proud of his stash of magazines he kept in a locked cabinet in his bedroom. He showed them to me when he lived at his previous Puyallup home,” Sandy said.

Last fall Sandy said Steve boasted that he still had the pair of Susan’s very sacred Mormon Temple Garment underwear that he stole from the dirty laundry when she and Josh lived at his house at the beginning of their marriage.

“Not only did he stash her underwear in his locked bedroom cabinet, he said he stashed her pictures, journals, and in there too,” Sandy said.

“In fact,” she said, “when police went to search his house last fall they missed it – Steve told me they never even looked in his locked cabinet so he still has her private belongings, including her underwear.

“From the beginning of Josh and Susan’s marriage Steve expressed very explicit fantasies about her,” she said.

Sandy said Steve was “madly obsessed” with Susan through the time of her disappearance. Now, he’s obsessed with his theory that Susan ran off with a missing Utah man, Steven Koecher.



Continue reading on Examiner.com Finally – light shed on why Susan Cox Powell feared her father-in-law - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ox-powell-feared-her-father-law#ixzz1YA52j6XO

So if he couldn't have her love, was he ok with his son having it? Did he feel he could be closer to her if she was not with any other man (ie. dead)? When JP talked to him about arguments he and Susan had, how did he address them - did he encourage violence? Is there any evidence that could link this as a possibility? How about a lie detector? Something is hinky here, I feel it.

MOO.

 

[pferrin]

The way things have to be documented in the soil matter when it comes to court. If it is messed up, when they do find the body, it cannot be used against their suspect.

There is a reason it is going slowly - it has to. They are also not going to announce to the public everything. It is frustrating, but I trust what they are saying. They are experienced professionals who want to ensure their investigation is carried out according to the required protocol.

Thanks HotLavaJavas..You are so good at reminding me there is a method to the madness. I think LE is doing a great job..also I love their tenacity and determination.

 

[sreshowtime]

yoo hoo ORIAH- IF there WAS a body in the location they are examining- couldn't the dogs 'track' any HR away from that spot if a body WAS moved?? I guess what I am trying to ask is would there be a trail of sorts leading from that spot? Do you understand what I am asking?

If this does have something to do with Susan, is it possible that JP may have 'prepared' a location at an earlier point in time prior to the day Susan came missing??
Had it ready so to speak, so he could put her there? Premeditated?
Dig a hole of sorts, cover it with thin plywood, spread a little dirt back on top???
When looking for gems, would he have had shovel & buckets available?

And possibly came back and relocated remains?

 

[HotLavaJavas]

BBM. Do you know of such warrants being given to do something like that? TIA.

Yes, sealed warrants are allowed under Utah law, and as for attaching GPS, yes. The warrant would be amended to include new vehicles.

Keep in mind: "good cause" isn't just someone asking pretty please. A warrant is permission to go into someone's home, car, or body to collect evidence. Because it is so personal, not only do police have to be convinced it is necessary, but so does a judge. Judges aren't judges because they have knee-jerk reactions. Judges protect each citizen's fourth amendment right to unreasonable searches.

So, if a judge signed the warrant to allow the search and then also allowed it to be sealed, there had to be some pretty compelling evidence.


UT Code:

Sealing and Unsealing of Search Warrant Documents

1. Application for sealing of documents related to search warrants. A prosecutor or peace officer may make a written or otherwise recorded application to the court to have documents or records related to search warrants sealed for a time in addition to the sealing required by Subsection (i)(1). Upon a showing of good cause, the court may order the following documents to be sealed:

• applications for search warrants;
  
• search warrants;
  
• affidavits or other recorded testimony upon which the search warrant is based;
  
• the application, affidavits or other recorded testimony and order for sealing the documents.

2. Sealing of search warrant documents. Search warrant documents are public record that may be sealed in entirety or in part and not placed in the public file if all or part of the information in them would:

• cause a substantial risk of harm to a person&#8217;s safety;
  
• pose a clearly unwarranted invasion of or harm to a person&#8217;s reputation or privacy; or
  
• pose a serious impediment to the investigation.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Yes, sealed warrants are allowed under Utah law, and as for attaching GPS, yes. The warrant would be amended to include new vehicles.

Keep in mind: "good cause" isn't just someone asking pretty please. A warrant is permission to go into someone's home, car, or body to collect evidence. Because it is so personal, not only do police have to be convinced it is necessary, but so does a judge. Judges aren't judges because they have knee-jerk reactions. Judges protect each citizen's fourth amendment right to unreasonable searches.

So, if a judge signed the warrant to allow the search and then also allowed it to be sealed, there had to be some pretty compelling evidence.


UT Code:

Sealing and Unsealing of Search Warrant Documents

1. Application for sealing of documents related to search warrants. A prosecutor or peace officer may make a written or otherwise recorded application to the court to have documents or records related to search warrants sealed for a time in addition to the sealing required by Subsection (i)(1). Upon a showing of good cause, the court may order the following documents to be sealed:

• applications for search warrants;
  
• search warrants;
  
• affidavits or other recorded testimony upon which the search warrant is based;
  
• the application, affidavits or other recorded testimony and order for sealing the documents.

2. Sealing of search warrant documents. Search warrant documents are public record that may be sealed in entirety or in part and not placed in the public file if all or part of the information in them would:

• cause a substantial risk of harm to a person&#8217;s safety;
  
• pose a clearly unwarranted invasion of or harm to a person&#8217;s reputation or privacy; or
  
• pose a serious impediment to the investigation.

Thanks!

So if a GPS was attached to his vehicle on Aug 25, 2011, and he goes on his camping trip Aug 26, 2011, why did they not get out to Topaz Mntn (presuming he did - speculation) until Sep 13, 2011? Why the 2 and a half week delay?

I don't think they put one on his vehicle, unfortunately. Perhaps the judge turned it down, or it simply wasn't applied for. MOO.

ETA: This is an interesting video of the search on Aug 25 by the way.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3QaDz4iHP8"]Police took journals, &#39;embarrassing videos&#39; from Powell home - YouTube[/ame]

 

[mysteriew]

I don't think that a campfire is hot enough to fully burn a body. Especially a winter time campfire. I think you need a really hot fire that is fueled by gas or strong propellants to get hot enough to burn an adult body. imoo

There is quite a bit of scrub brush in the area. All he would need is enough fuel to make that burn. And green wood/brush when it does burn burns hotter than dry wood.

Along with a hot fire, he would need time for the fire to burn a body which has a high water content. It takes like days. So I am kinda thinking that there may be some fairly large bones that are left.

 

[HotLavaJavas]

Thanks!

So if a GPS was attached to his vehicle on Aug 25, 2011, and he goes on his camping trip Aug 26, 2011, why did they not get out to Topaz Mntn (presuming he did - speculation) until Sep 13, 2011? Why the 2 and a half week delay?

I don't think they put one on his vehicle, unfortunately. Perhaps the judge turned it down, or it simply wasn't applied for. MOO.

ETA: This is an interesting video of the search on Aug 25 by the way.

Police took journals, 'embarrassing videos' from Powell home - YouTube

My best guess at that is because if he did go out immediately...it doesn't mean necessarily that they knew why. While in his mind, he would know why, the PD wouldn't.

I'll pull from statistics here. Say you run a grocery store and you run a sale. It has a tremendous effect and so you think that it will always be effective.

When it comes to determining if something is effective...you need more than one event to tell you whether something will work or not.

How that applies to this case...the PD needs more than one visit, or behavior, to determine where to look. My guess is...they had a GPS hit and evidence from Washington to help them pinpoint this exact spot.

 

[cocomod]

Thank you for this. It is my understanding that JP is the only person of interest in this case, so it makes sense his dad has an alibi in another state.

I am speculating but want to understand fully that JP's dad was not involved in premeditated murder. We have numerous and voluminous reports of his obsession with Susan (heck he even admits it 3 weeks ago), so it definitely bears the question "Did he partake in the plot to murder Susan Powell?"

It is quite plausible and has been speculated on quite a bit. IIRC, it was discussed by Susan's friends that Josh talked to his father a LOT during the weeks leading up to Susan's disappearance. Susan said that Josh acted differently after talking with his father. I believe strongly that Josh is a wimp and would not have the "guts" (insert you own word here) to act without some "pumping up" from dear ole dad. JMHO of course!

 

[Oriah]

I'll answer this in a little bit, ok sre?

yoo hoo ORIAH- IF there WAS a body in the location they are examining- couldn't the dogs 'track' any HR away from that spot if a body WAS moved?? I guess what I am trying to ask is would there be a trail of sorts leading from that spot? Do you understand what I am asking?

If this does have something to do with Susan, is it possible that JP may have 'prepared' a location at an earlier point in time prior to the day Susan came missing??
Had it ready so to speak, so he could put her there? Premeditated?
Dig a hole of sorts, cover it with thin plywood, spread a little dirt back on top???
When looking for gems, would he have had shovel & buckets available?

And possibly came back and relocated remains?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

My best guess at that is because if he did go out immediately...it doesn't mean necessarily that they knew why. While in his mind, he would know why, the PD wouldn't.

I'll pull from statistics here. Say you run a grocery store and you run a sale. It has a tremendous effect and so you think that it will always be effective.

When it comes to determining if something is effective...you need more than one event to tell you whether something will work or not.

How that applies to this case...the PD needs more than one visit, or behavior, to determine where to look. My guess is...they had a GPS hit and evidence from Washington to help them pinpoint this exact spot.

It would be great if you are correct - wouldn't that mean their GPS device would tell them where his next stop was after Topaz Mntn?

My opinion is that their was something on the computer that indicated Topaz Mntn was where the body probably was, but it took some computer geeks to go through the hard drive with a magnifying glass.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

How long does it take for forensics to identify DNA in such a situation where they only have tiny fragments of decomp? TIA.

 

[teedie2]

Susan was in a very unhealthy situation in her marriage. Wow, usually people complain because their in-laws don't like them.

Where was the FIL when Susan disappeared? And when JP had the rental car?

jmo

 

[hollyblue]

I hope the bad weather forces them to rethink what they could be doing with this time, which is sitting JP's and his dad's down in separate interrogation rooms with a spotlight, and asking some VERY hard questions.

:maddening:

There is no way those two will talk to LE. They haven't except to give clues on other possibilities since the first week of Susan's missing. She went missing on the 7th and he lawyered up the 13th. IMO, they will have to gather info...as they have been doing since and find Susan before arrest can be made. Then you have the problem of definitively connecting him to the evidence found for a conviction. After nearly two years, unless she was miraculously preserved in some way, it will be very hard to glean anything unless the bones can tell it...or a weapon found with her. IMO

 

[HatesSociopaths]

It is quite plausible and has been speculated on quite a bit. IIRC, it was discussed by Susan's friends that Josh talked to his father a LOT during the weeks leading up to Susan's disappearance. Susan said that Josh acted differently after talking with his father. I believe strongly that Josh is a wimp and would not have the "guts" (insert you own word here) to act without some "pumping up" from dear ole dad. JMHO of course!

Thank you for this information.

Is there a thread for this aspect of the case? Can the fact that Steven Powell's journals were taken, the fact he has admitted an obsession about her, the fact he had photos and videos of her, the fact he wrote songs about her, the fact he stole her underwear, etc. make it ok to do a full sleuth of this character and his very own thread?