New Search 9/12/2011

[Dr.Fessel]

RoxanaOre Roxana Orellana
More digging will follow once initial dirt is sift through. Two more dogs brought back to the site to see if they can point to exact spot.
Cops and Courts reporter for the Salt Lake Tribune's justice desk

 

[Donjeta]

How many dogs is that now?

 

[Lera213]

http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/rover-c-2-new-edition.php (every LE should have one of these I think)


http://books.google.com/books?id=Kq...snum=10&ved=0CH4Q6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q&f=false This section talks about how LE probes the ground.

I think that is what they did, they saw an area of the ground that looked different, they have these 3ft skinny pipes and some police departments actually have one of those tiny camera's at the end of it. They stick it in the ground around the area, if it is a grave it will go in easier then if it isn't a gave because of air pockets. Something like that. I think this is what they did, and why they knew it was a grave, they bring in dogs and the dogs hit on it. Ok so Police know grave, and dogs hit, that would make them say REMAINS.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I'm no expert, but after 69 hours at this particular burial site, I'm pretty sure they could have dug more than 2 feet if there was a good reason to.

 

[Knox]

How many dogs is that now?

Since Wednesday, investigators have been digging and sifting through dirt near the base of Topaz Mountain in a remote area outside of Delta, where at least seven cadaver dogs have positively indicated on an area with disturbed soil where there might be human remains buried underneath.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=17284572

Looks like seven-

 

[Dr.Fessel]

RoxanaOre Roxana Orellana
AP along with a video person and reporter will be taken to apparent grave site to get a closer look. They'll serve pool for media.

 

[gwenabob]

I have to agree. I tend to think a huge reason there is a plea bargain is to save the state money, and I think that stinks.

True, but that is a good thing in many ways. Imagine if there was no plea bargains at all. Think of how clogged the courts would be for all kinds of crimes, large and small. Not just murder but breaking into cars, shoplifting, etc. Think how much it would cost for all the additional judges, DAs, court personnel needed to run the docket. We would have to build larger courthouses. Our taxes would be prohibitive. It would be a nightmare.

Here in Oregon, there are some counties that barely try any civil cases at all because they are so backed up with criminal matters. They try very hard to get all the civil matters cleared up with mediation or arbitration because there is simply no time or place to actually try them. You will get a civil trial date only to have the court cancel at the last minute because there is no available judge. You wait a couple years for civil trial in some counties. Same with Federal Court. So, I guess while plea bargains seem ridiculously unfair when you look at it case by case, they are a lifesaver for the system as a whole.


ETA: Plus, think of how often you would have to do Jury Duty!!

 

[sreshowtime]

Thanks ORIAH- I get it ( o/t -reminds me of time the ex left unprocessed deer meat in our fridge..that was an ordeal)

 

[HatesSociopaths]

This is speculation, not based on anything new today:

If it turns out there is no body there, I do wonder why the investigators didn't announce this in the first place. It's not like they would be fooling JP into anything. Perhaps they could make him think there was human remains he left behind, but they aren't going to fool him into thinking he left the body back there.

Fine, say human remains are discovered, but give the facts. No body yet, looks like we hit the bottom of the grave, we are moving forward with new information, we've got evidence of human remains, etc. That's not gonna come as a surprise to JP if that is what the score is here. The viewing public got sucked into a tease, and that kind of bothers me.

If it was serving a purpose, great, but I don't see that purpose. I don't see why they stopped digging at 2 feet Wed afternoon unless they came to the bottom of that grave and saw the body was gone. At that point, the best strategy in my mind is announce it! Say the dirt shows evidence of being recently disturbed, say there was a witness account of activity from late August (if true), say they need any new information relating to this case, and take advantage of the APB put out to the public by the media.

:twocents:

 

[HotLavaJavas]

I'm no expert, but after 69 hours at this particular burial site, I'm pretty sure they could have dug more than 2 feet if there was a good reason to.

They aren't out there constantly. There's weather delays, and you can't just put a shovel in and dig away. You risk damaging evidence, or a body that way.

There is a method to an archaeological dig. There's also excavation protocol to follow. This isn't CSI...we have to be patient and let them do their job.

 

[Lera213]

If nothing is found but the scent from the dogs JP doesn't know that. Lets say JP did move the body one would think he wouldn't be worried because he knows it isn't there anymore however; JP wouldn't know if he left something behind that LE will find.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

They aren't out there constantly. There's weather delays, and you can't just put a shovel in and dig away. You risk damaging evidence, or a body that way.

There is a method to an archaeological dig. There's also excavation protocol to follow. This isn't CSI...we have to be patient and let them do their job.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Is there an earlier case where it took this long to dig up a shallow grave?

 

[Oriah]

I talked to a gentlemen in my area that had dogs, and he said that it is possible once they excavate to use a bloodhound to possibly determine if it is Susan with a blood hound. He says that it is likely after 2 years time that a bloodhound would not pick up on her scent in the area if she was buried.

Not sure exactly what the question is here?

Also want to clarify something- a bloodhound is a breed of dog.
The word 'bloodhound' is not synonymous with any kind of working dog. The breed is commonly used in SAR work. But there are many breeds and mixed breed dogs used in SAR.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

If nothing is found but the scent from the dogs JP doesn't know that. Lets say JP did move the body one would think he wouldn't be worried because he knows it isn't there anymore however; JP wouldn't know if he left something behind that LE will find.

I agree but JP would certainly know he took the body out of the grave. We have not been given this information that there is no body to be found (if true), and I don't see the point.

MOO.

 

[Knox]

Topaz Mountain • The search for Susan Cox Powell resumed Saturday morning with additional reinforcement — including some equestrian help.

The Juab County Sheriff Office’s search and rescue team offered it’s assistance in the search for Powell near Topaz Mountain.

The group of about 15 people and their horses took on the task to look in higher areas, so searchers in all terrain vehicles can focus on spots closer to roads.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52600721-78/powell-search-merritt-dirt.html.csp

 

[cluciano63]

I am not sure what exactly they would be risking by (gently) digging up the site, I guess. They are not searching for extremely fragile, ancient artifacts; if this is in fact where Susan was put, it seems that her remains would be largely intact, if indeed buried. And if she was there, and had been moved, then hauling the dirt back to a lab should tell them.

 

[Knox]

Not sure exactly what the question is here?

Also want to clarify something- a bloodhound is a breed of dog.
The word 'bloodhound' is not synonymous with any kind of working dog. The breed is commonly used in SAR work. But there are many breeds and mixed breed dogs used in SAR.

Cocomod was responding to my silly question Oriah. I asked if scent dogs could be brought in at this late date.

 

[HotLavaJavas]

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Is there an earlier case where it took this long to dig up a shallow grave?

I'm sorry that you don't, but you don't know the specifics of what they're dealing with. Digging up a body while preserving evidence isn't an easy task no matter where it is.

 

[Oriah]

Cocomod was responding to my silly question Oriah. I asked if scent dogs could be brought in at this late date.

Gotcha! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I am not sure what exactly they would be risking by (gently) digging up the site, I guess. They are not searching for extremely fragile, ancient artifacts; if this is in fact where Susan was put, it seems that her remains would be largely intact, if indeed buried. And if she was there, and had been moved, then hauling the dirt back to a lab should tell them.

From timeline:
Wed Sep 14, 2011 - At around noon, the search suddenly shifts 2 miles, based on a tip from Mr Tony Abbott, who noted suspicious activity there along a road.
At 1 p.m., Police have encouraged citizens to report any tips which may be connected to Susan Powell’s disappearance.
At 1:30 p.m. Report that "human remains found through cadaver dogs." And that a Medical Examiner is coming....

They probably had dug deep enough at 1:00 p.m. Wednesday to know the body had been removed and then they possibly (speculation) strategized to announce the human remains finding to startle JP and hope he does something to incriminate himself. MOO. And that's fine with me, I just think they should have let us know what the score is here with regard to the body.

MOO.