New Search 9/12/2011

[Oriah]

I'll answer this in a little bit, ok sre?

Sorry sre, that was a little bit of a wait!

Ok- here we go- and if this is confusing, I apologize. It is a very complicated subject, and this is MOO.

If there is decomp scent on an item that has been able to retain scent for a long period of time, then an HRD dog should be able to hit on it after much time has passed. Items that retain decomp scent are very variable, and also very subject to environmental conditions. Also, the 'stage' of decomp matters as well- when the remains come into contact with various items.

So... this may be a thoroughly confusing analogy, but I'm gonna try it anyway.
Think about it like this:
As a test, you put an open can of tuna into your fridge, close the door and leave it closed for a week. There are tons of different foods in your fridge. Most will absorb the scent of tuna to varying degrees, depending on their packaging and their propensity for absorption. Take out that loaf of wonder bread that you left unwrapped? It's gonna smell like tuna. And it's gonna smell strongly like tuna if the can of tuna is right under it, on it, or next to it. The oranges though- not so much- because they have a strong scent of their own, and are sealed by their own peel.
Now you take out the can of tuna. Your fridge still smells like tuna. In the meantime, I have tried the same experiment with MY fridge- only I have a 2011 SubZero and you have a 1972 Fridgidaire. Does the food in my fridge retain scent longer than yours, because it keeps a more consistant and sealed temp? Or does the food in your fridge retain less scent, because it has dispersed into the environment (and you can now smell tuna on the other side of your house?) So I get hit with a huge scent of tuna when I open my fridge door...while you are sorta like "hmm, so that's what I've been smelling all week."
Now try the same experiment, only put your tuna in a ziplock bag. Or drop or raise the temp in your fridge. Or shut it off entirely. Or leave the door slightly ajar. The scent of tuna that permeates the other foods in your fridge will vary wildly. Do you see what I'm saying?

Decomp is the same for HRD dogs. The variables are tremendous.

So to answer your question of whether or not an HRD dog can alert to a site after a body has been moved...it depends on A LOT of variables.

Helpful, huh??

 

[GutInstinct]

Thank you for sharing this, Dr.

 

[DLT88]

It is beyond frustrating when your family member is/are gone, [you know that pain, as well] and you sit in court and watch the person responsible get relatively light sentences because they made a deal. In my cousin's case, he also killed 5 others prior and yet still did not get the DP. A plea bargain, just to get a conviction, is not justice IMHO. 6 deaths and they couldn't get the guy convicted?

I hope that whomever is found to be the guilty party in Susan's case is not given a plea bargain. The pain and frustration for the family afterward is difficult. Sorry for your loss.

I have to agree. I tend to think a huge reason there is a plea bargain is to save the state money, and I think that stinks.

 

[cocomod]

What is the weather up there today, does anyone know? I am not sure how to check for this particular area.

If you check wheather.com for Delta, Utah you will get a good idea of the weather. It says partly cloudy this morning, but it is clear here in Utah County. The weather report also states only a 30 % chance of rain. I am hoping for a clear day!

http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Delta+UT+USUT0057

 

[cocomod]

Here's a link to local radar. It is interactive.

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/WxMap.aspx?location=USUT9767

This radar map also shows that it is clear near Delta. Thanks for this link WalzingMatilda!

 

[cocomod]

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...-for-susan-cox-powell-definitely-grave-site-1

Asked if the area where police were excavating is a grave site, as described by the police chief, Lt. Merritt said, “Yes, I would say it’s definitely going to be a grave site.”

The search dogs continued to “indicate” the presence of human remains - blood, tissue, and bones can all be referred to as human remains.

West Valley City Police Lt. Bill Merritt held a press conference near the search site Thursday afternoon. He said, “The way they’re [dogs] indicating, it’s not just a passive indication. It’s a very strong indication. There is no doubt in their minds that these dogs are positively indicating.”

So we asked the question – ‘Is it possible we’re looking at a drop of blood?’ – and they said it might be,” Lt. Merritt said.

“But as we get deeper and deeper and deeper that seems to go away because a drop of blood is not going to be a foot down,” he said

Lt. Merritt was asked Thursday if the dogs were given a piece of clothing or a scent from Susan Powell to try and trace her scent. He responded, “No, the dogs don’t go off and scent like a bloodhound would. This is simply decomposition. That is what they are looking for. They’re not interested in her scent.”

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I saw a report from some time ago that police were hoping JP would consent to an interview, but that he has refused. What does it take legally to interrogate this guy along with SP? Can they just take the 5th?

 

[Knox]

The dogs they are using hit strictly on decomposition. If they brought in a scent dog and used an article with Susan's scent on it, could the dog determine if she is/was in the area being excavated? Seems they would have done this already if it was possible, but thought I would ask anyway.

 

[cocomod]

The dogs they are using hit strictly on decomposition. If they brought in a scent dog and used an article with Susan's scent on it, could the dog determine if she is/was in the area being excavated? Seems they would have done this already if it was possible, but thought I would ask anyway.

I talked to a gentlemen in my area that had dogs, and he said that it is possible once they excavate to use a bloodhound to possibly determine if it is Susan with a blood hound. He says that it is likely after 2 years time that a bloodhound would not pick up on her scent in the area if she was buried.

 

[HotLavaJavas]

I saw a report from some time ago that police were hoping JP would consent to an interview, but that he has refused. What does it take legally to interrogate this guy along with SP? Can they just take the 5th?

They can call them in for an interrogation, but they can plead the 5th. WVCPD has been building their case without them, so it will be that more damning at trial.

 

[HotLavaJavas]

Wow what agony for her family. I have seen on some shows searchers using a device that looks like a lawn mower, they roll it over the site and it shows differences in the soil. Wonder if they used one and what it showed?

That is ground penetrating radar, and I am sure they've used it. It would show upsets in the soil, voids, etc.

 

[sarx]

The dogs they are using hit strictly on decomposition. If they brought in a scent dog and used an article with Susan's scent on it, could the dog determine if she is/was in the area being excavated? Seems they would have done this already if it was possible, but thought I would ask anyway.

I'm going to go with a "no", too much time has passed, too much weather, heat, etc. There are a few handlers who will say yes, that they can trail a year plus old scent, but to my knowledge the only ones who make those claims are those who charge for their services and I have not found or seen any data or been apart of any training that shows a dog can actually do this, quite the opposite actually.

 

[Dr. Know?]

BenWinslow Ben Winslow
UPDATE: Search efforts resuming with more dirt sifting at shallow grave. @fox13now #SusanPowell #findsusan #Utah

BenWinslow Ben Winslow
UPDATE: Search resuming w/ a forensic anthropologist to help as dirt is sifted at shallow grave. @fox13now #findsusan #Utah

BenWinslow Ben Winslow
Grave site digging about 2 feet deep now. Dogs continue to indicate on the site, @sandyriesgraf says. @fox13now #findsusan #Utah

http://twitter.com/#!/BenWinslow

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I'm going to go with a "no", too much time has passed, too much weather, heat, etc. There are a few handlers who will say yes, that they can trail a year plus old scent, but to my knowledge the only ones who make those claims are those who charge for their services and I have not found or seen any data or been apart of any training that shows a dog can actually do this, quite the opposite actually.

Does the fact these amazing dogs smell decomp mean investigators will be able to find some traces of DNA, or could they just be smelling the scent of decomp that absorbed into the soil itself?

 

[sarx]

I've been out for a few days, can someone point me to what dogs are being used and how they landed in this spot? TIA (Gonna go grab coffee, hoping I don't already know the answers to these questions and just forgot, lol).

 

[Dr. Know?]

Ben deleted this tweet I just posted above. Oh, I hope they have anthropologist on site. Ben is getting info via other reporters on site per his tweets.

BenWinslow Ben Winslow
UPDATE: Search resuming w/ a forensic anthropologist to help as dirt is sifted at shallow grave. @fox13now #findsusan #Utah

http://twitter.com/#!/BenWinslow

Kiirs Kiirsi Hellewell
Had a great visit with Chuck Cox last night. He is in good spirits and feeling very confident about police. #findsusan

http://twitter.com/#!/Kiirs

 

[Knox]

I don't know what to think. Remains are there, just deeper than they have excavated so far. Or? I'm confused about the description "shallow grave".

 

[snupy]

I've been out for a few days, can someone point me to what dogs are being used and how they landed in this spot? TIA (Gonna go grab coffee, hoping I don't already know the answers to these questions and just forgot, lol).

<snip>

Two teams of dogs are working on the case, one of which was trained by handler Wally Hendricks. He was in Juab County when his dog made the initial find.


http://www.ksl.com/?sid=17279866&nid=148

 

[Knox]

I've been out for a few days, can someone point me to what dogs are being used and how they landed in this spot? TIA (Gonna go grab coffee, hoping I don't already know the answers to these questions and just forgot, lol).

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile/52596626-78/powell-police-susan-site.html.csp

 

[HotLavaJavas]

I don't know what to think. Remains are there, just deeper than they have excavated so far. Or? I'm confused about the description "shallow grave".

I'll guess less than six feet