New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

[cobalt sky]

It needs to be picked apart and ridiculed for its lack of logic and blind eye to the fact that if indigenous or aboriginal people hinted at such views towards their "immigrants", he and those that agree with him would be proclaiming themselves innocent victims right away.

And here you touched on the crux of his manifesto. The indigenous/aboriginal people that you are referring to know that there is nothing that they can do about their situation. That's how it has been since the beginning of time, there are conquerors, and there are the conquered. It sounds so primitive and even somewhat ignorant to say that, but it is a universal cold hard truth. The entire premise of his manifesto is that he doesn't want "his people" to end up "conquered". It's really that simple. Call it crazy if you like.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I would rather call his view malicious, dramatic, paranoid, and ignorant of the actual brutality that accompanied all that conquest. He should have read a little bit more history. Immigrants praying are not the same as conquerors.

 

[human]

After all of the blather, it will be found that he was rejected by women.

The women in the countries he visited can be stunning. I present the idea that he went traveling with great hopes and was rejected many times.

He probably has a bad personality like we have seen with other shooters.

He did not bother to apply himself at school so there was something happening there.

Did he have a girlfriend in high school?

 

[sunnynz]

They probably need it for everything. The prospect of longterm fiscal damage is legitimate in my opinion.

Speculative short list: Healthcare bills, multiple surgeries, ER bills, physical rehabilitation, counseling, burial costs, funerals, repairing the bullet-riddled mosques, and all the costs related to all of those things. Those costs alone could be well over $2 million

And I hope the first responders and health care professionals get the longterm support they’ll need, too. So gruesome and traumatic.

.

Respectfully snipped by me.

The healthcare, counselling and rehab costs for the victims, and the counselling costs for the first responders will all be paid for by our public health system.

I believe that some burial and funeral related costs can also be covered by our accident compensation system but I’m not 100% sure on the details of that.

But there are countless other associated costs such as those you’ve mentioned above plus others we won’t have even thought of yet.

 

[human]

Respectfully snipped by me.

The healthcare, counselling and rehab costs for the victims, and the counselling costs for the first responders will all be paid for by our public health system.

I believe that some burial and funeral related costs can also be covered by our accident compensation system but I’m not 100% sure on the details of that.

But there are countless other associated costs such as those you’ve mentioned above plus others we won’t have even thought of yet.

I have a good friend from NZ who did leave because he thinks the weather is too cold . He loves to surf.

He has told us many things about NZ. What an enlightened country it is.

I also have a friend who is Maori who does not live in NZ anymore. The Maori have their representation in the govt although there are grumblings about those who feel it is a special advantage.

I am so impressed with what I learn about New Zealand.

 

[Tadpole12]

I imagine at some point we will hear how he was rejected by women

In BT's world, women are breeding stock.

 

[human]

In BT's world, women are breeding stock.

A big clue to the fact women rejected him, I feel

 

[zencompass]

I glanced over the manifesto (I lack the patience to read so many pages of illogical hatred). I looked at the snazzy PDF version that Otto also linked. I was surprised to find such a slick piece of propaganda. Those of us on this site are reasonably logical folks and we are not subject to false premises in the way that the general population is swayed. We look for evidence, consider alternatives, etc. all in the interests of attempting to uncover injustices. I don't fear for any of us who might read this document. However, the general population can be easily manipulated by fears that are present in the media, whether justified or not. I do think this document is very dangerous. The illogic should be exposed, but in a way that does not inadvertently add to exposure of the disgusting aspects of the viewpoint. Perhaps everyone should have to take a course in racism. All this is very concerning, and I don't have an answer at the moment. But all governments should speak out strongly against these supremacist views.

Dear BlueShoe,

Thank you for your insightful post. One of your thoughts in your post stood out to me:
"Perhaps everyone should have to take a course in racism."

If this could become entrenched within the educational curriculum, it could very well make a tremendous difference.

Of course, it would have to concentrate on the affect that racism has on all cultures.

Somehow it would have to focus on breaking down false beliefs, stereotypes and talk about hate, without any focus on particular perpetrators of hate.

The course would need to include a classroom discussion so that the students can participate.

I believe that your idea of a "course on racism" should be implemented within the school system.

Regardless of what students hear or associate with outside the classroom, at least this "balance" will be available at school.

This idea of yours is not only crucial but timely. Thank you for sharing this.

JMO

 

[Randazzo]

<modsnip>The manifesto has already shown that a lot of initial assumptions about this evil man were wrong.. many of them perpetuated by gossip rags. The facts will come out in court.

 

[cobalt sky]

I would rather call his view malicious, dramatic, paranoid, and ignorant of the actual brutality that accompanied all that conquest. He should have read a little bit more history. Immigrants praying are not the same as conquerors.

BBM - I agree 100%! The Muslims, or any immigrant for that matter, is ultimately not to blame. The blame rests on the irresponsibility and poor leadership of the government of the host countries. When large populations of people are brought in from different countries with different religious beliefs, politics, and cultures, it must be expected that there may be some clashes. It's only natural. But it's clear that the host countries did not properly prepare for that, and are only making things worse by ignoring their mess-ups and placing blame either on the host nation's people for being "racists/bigots", or on the immigrants for being "ungrateful hostile invaders", depending on what "side" you're on. Of course all this only adds fuel to the fire and solves nothing.

What Tarrant did was terrible. Violence is NEVER the answer. But I would like to ask this question: what in your opinions would have been a better way for Tarrant to bring forth his thoughts and concerns for discussion to a broader audience? Without him being shut down as a racist hateful bigoted literal Nazi?

 

[cobalt sky]

Dear BlueShoe,

Thank you for your insightful post. One of your thoughts in your post stood out to me:
"Perhaps everyone should have to take a course in racism."

JMO

RSBM. This is an absolutely terrible idea imo. What's next? Government propaganda running through the school's loudspeakers all day long, reminiscent of concentration camps?

And who gets to decide what qualifies as racist? The problem is that racist doesn't just mean racist anymore. And the reason is because the word "racist" has been hijacked and weaponized, at times used to silence people with a differing viewpoint whether or not the issue is actually race-related.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

People in government, think tanks, universities, and on the airwaves and online platforms already voice his concerns. They may get criticized, but they are brave enough to weather the criticism and continue to put forth their valid concerns. Criticism is not a fate worse than death. He should have joined them in the peaceful dissemination of ideas, but he was too much of a coward.

There is no defense for this guy. He is not a leader in the world of ideas. He counted himself out of the conversation when he decided to murder 49 people.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I read his manifesto. It was disturbing and very contradictory. I'm now leaning towards this horrible attack being more Texas Clock Tower. I believe he just wanted to murder people and sow dissent in the world. He wanted a civil war in America because he hates individualism and capitalism. That's crazy! It seems like he hated everyone and everything. I believe he killed all those innocent people worshipping in their neighborhood mosques because that would create the most outrage in the world.. I know he succeeded with me, I am so outraged that if he were to be lynched, I would be on the side of the lynchers. I agree with the poster earlier who said he should be held isolated so he wouldn't get to enjoy his "fame".

 

[Reasonable & Just]

BBM. People who dare to speak up are swiftly deplatformed and labeled as racists and Nazis, including people of color and even Jewish people. That's how out of control the hysteria is. Everywhere you look in MSM these days it's "White supremacy is on the rise! Evil Nazis are gonna get you!" These are scare tactics used to villainize people with a differing viewpoint and to suppress open discussion.

Except open discussion is not being suppressed by criticism. The woman this man cited as an influence has not been silenced. She speaks her views, whether others like it or not. Many other thinkers do the same. Functional people with functional points of view can put those points of view out there and accept that not everyone will love their telling of the truth. They aren't forced into murder to get their views across.

 

[dotr]

New Zealand mosque shooter charged with 1 murder, more to follow
"Tarrant’s relatives in the Australian town of Grafton, in New South Wales, contacted police after learning of the shooting and were helping with the investigation, local authorities said. Tarrant has spent little time in Australia in the past four years and only had minor traffic infractions on his record."

"New Zealand is also generally considered to be welcoming to migrants and refugees. On Saturday, people across the country were reaching out to Muslims in their communities on social media to volunteer acts of kindness _ offering rides to the grocery store or volunteering to walk with them if they felt unsafe. In other forums, people discussed Muslim food restrictions as they prepared to drop off meals for those affected.


The prime minister said the attack reflected “extremist views that have absolutely no place in New Zealand.”


Immigrants “have chosen to make New Zealand their home, and it is their home,” Ardern said. “They are us.”
rbbm

 

[Alisajo]

After all of the blather, it will be found that he was rejected by women.

The women in the countries he visited can be stunning. I present the idea that he went traveling with great hopes and was rejected many times.

He probably has a bad personality like we have seen with other shooters.

He did not bother to apply himself at school so there was something happening there.

Did he have a girlfriend in high school?

His mother is a High School Teacher yet he couldn't apply himself at school.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

BBM. People who dare to speak up are swiftly deplatformed and labeled as racists and Nazis, including people of color and even Jewish people. That's how out of control the hysteria is. Everywhere you look in MSM these days it's "White supremacy is on the rise! Evil Nazis are gonna get you!" These are scare tactics used to villainize people with a differing viewpoint and to suppress open discussion.

And the same happens to other groups as well, including "radical Muslims". When they commit acts of terrorism, for example the young man who strapped a bomb to himself in the UK at the Ariana Grande concert. I simply said on social media that I hope he left a letter or something that would help us understand what he feels so passionate about that he was willing to commit such a heinous act and give up his life for. I was of course attacked relentlessly..."who cares! He's a monster! He's a madman! He's evil! We should not want to know about or spread his message!" Well I feel differently I guess. I want to know why people do things like this so that we can understand where they are coming from and maybe having an open mind would help to resolve differences and prevent future acts of violence like these.

And to be clear, I'm not defending Tarrant or any terrorist, I have already said several times that murder and violence is never the answer.

I agree with you. If we don't understand them, how can we stop them?

 

[human]

BBM. People who dare to speak up are swiftly deplatformed and labeled as racists and Nazis, including people of color and even Jewish people. That's how out of control the hysteria is. Everywhere you look in MSM these days it's "White supremacy is on the rise! Evil Nazis are gonna get you!" These are scare tactics used to villainize people with a differing viewpoint and to suppress open discussion.

And the same happens to other groups as well, including "radical Muslims". When they commit acts of terrorism, for example the young man who strapped a bomb to himself in the UK at the Ariana Grande concert. I simply said on social media that I hope he left a letter or something that would help us understand what he feels so passionate about that he was willing to commit such a heinous act and give up his life for. I was of course attacked relentlessly..."who cares! He's a monster! He's a madman! He's evil! We should not want to know about or spread his message!" Well I feel differently I guess. I want to know why people do things like this so that we can understand where they are coming from and maybe having an open mind would help to resolve differences and prevent future acts of violence like these.

And to be clear, I'm not defending Tarrant or any terrorist, I have already said several times that murder and violence is never the answer.

Yes. That is why I feel we need to look at why he was having such problems at school and what his relationship was with women. What happened on his travels?

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The number one domestic terror threat in America is white supremacists. This is not opinion, this is fact. More than half of the deadly terrorist acts in America in the last year have been committed by people who aligned with white supremacy.

Don't worry, the opposite extremists will raise up to "avenge" this extremist killing. On and on, ad nauseum. It's a never ending cycle of violence. There seems to be no way to break the cycle the world is in.

 

[human]

Sky New Zealand pulls Sky News Australia off air over Christchurch massacre coverage