New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

[PrairieWind]

Ironically Erdogan would have a fit if a western leader played 9-11 footage during a "juice'em up" rally- then made references to Turks "going home in coffins" like their ancestors did at Vienna (Ottomans defeated by European coalition led by Poland).

But.... no western leader has done that. If Turkey wants to be accepted as a European nation, their leader needs to act like a European leader.

Erdogan is not a European leader. He is a brutal and ruthless dictator of what was once a peaceful secular nation and good ally.

 

[otto]

It is probably better to look at how the perpetrator used The term 'white'. The perpetrator justified the attack using racial terms (opposition to non 'white' immigration / migration). Thus, the media emphasizes the racial motive.

The fact that most of the victims were Caucasian in the anthropological sense does not mean that the shooter accepted them as being 'white'. Rather he directly stated that he did not accept them as 'white' and thus they were subject to attack.

My guess if that it is very possible that the terrorist uses the term 'white' to describe a person with two characteristics:

- being racially white (his definition- limited to Europeans, not the anthropological definition) and

- Possessing a "white culture" (by the terrorist's definition, not the dictionary definition of the two separate terms)

Exactly. In the actions and 74-page ramblings of the murder, he reveals that he has a distorted, perverted interpretation of well known concepts and words. It would be refreshing for media to separate reality from this lunatic's version of the world. Instead, the media lacks critical reflection and accepts the murderer's words and actions as coherent.

 

[otto]

Turkey’s President Erdogan shows vile New Zealand massacre video at rallies and vows to send Kiwis 'home in coffins like your grandfathers' in chilling reference to Gallipoli

Shocking! This is why the murderer's actions and words need to be discussed in a more responsible context. Pretending that he is a normal thinking man who adhered to a rational ideology gives the lunatic credibility and will inevitably lead to a retaliatory response. There needs to be much more responsible perspectives, discussion and reporting on his mental instability and irrational views.

 

[cobalt sky]

Shocking! This is why the murderer's actions and words need to be discussed in a more responsible context. Pretending that he is a normal thinking man who adhered to a rational ideology gives the lunatic credibility and will inevitably lead to a retaliatory response. There needs to be much more responsible perspectives, discussion and reporting on his mental instability and irrational views.

What is there to report on? Where is the evidence that mental instability is the reason for what the shooter did? Has he ever been diagnosed with any psychological or emotional disorders?

If MSM is going to report on his "irrational views" then they are going to need to publish the manifesto. And right now I don't see that happening.

 

[JudgeJudi]

How soon is a case likely to get to trial? I know this is unprecedented, but are there requirements on "speedy trial" like here in the US? Obviously, we are all about to learn a lot more about New Zealand law in the coming months.

Also, if he is acting as his own attorney, can the state cut off his access to media without jeopardizing his rights to mount his own defense? I certainly understand wanting to not let him see media, not let him get any satisfaction from his horrific deeds, but does it cause problems and provide him defenses down the road?

I doubt this will come to trial any time soon because it's unprecedented.
No, they don't have "speedy trial" legislation.

I'm not qualified to answer your question re access to media for his defence, but I'm certain he'll get all the assistance he needs one way or another.

As far as I'm aware, their Terrorism Suppression Act hasn't been formally used in a prosecution to date, and this may be one reason why it would be easier for him to be charged with murder. I think they're still considering all their options at the moment.

 

[otto]

RSBM

Haha "creating secret transcripts" probably sounds a little dramatic, what I meant by this is someone sympathetic to his cause anonymously leaking trial testimony etc. to get his word out if the judge decides to not allow MSM etc.

Some countries have very strict law about publication of trial information prior to trial. In the US, talking heads like Nancy Grace broadcast and debate every gory detail of criminal activities prior to trial. In many countries, media is strictly controlled in order to ensure the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. During trial, information is released to the public.

However, there are some crimes that are so abhorrent that they cannot be reported. Perhaps you recall the trials of Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo. All information related to one or both trials (don't remember) was banned in Canada. That did not prevent US media from attending trial and publishing trial content, but Canadians were protected from the mentally disturbed details of the crimes.

This is not about denying rights, but to ensure that people are protected from accidentally peering into the minds of really disturbed people. Media is to inform people about current events, not to indulge in rubbernecking (e.g.: Nancy Grace).

 

[eucalyptuz]

THE CHRISTCHURCH SHOOTINGS SHOULD IMPLICATE ALL WHITE AUSTRALIANS
The Christchurch Shootings Should Implicate All White Australians

Interesting.

When, for example, a Muslim commits a terror attack, it's always "not all Muslims".

But apparently when a white person commits a terror attack, all whites are responsible? Why isn't it "not all whites?" What is the agenda behind all of this white guilting?

And could this be the kind of thing that motivates shooters like Tarrant?

IMO

I am curious if you read beyond the headline? Your comments seem to suggest something other than reaction to the author’s opinion and discussion of the complexities of racism in Australia.

 

[otto]

How soon is a case likely to get to trial? I know this is unprecedented, but are there requirements on "speedy trial" like here in the US? Obviously, we are all about to learn a lot more about New Zealand law in the coming months.

Also, if he is acting as his own attorney, can the state cut off his access to media without jeopardizing his rights to mount his own defense? I certainly understand wanting to not let him see media, not let him get any satisfaction from his horrific deeds, but does it cause problems and provide him defenses down the road?

Trial is to present evidence of a crime and to determine culpability. Media reporting of that crime is irrelevant as it does not change the facts of the case. The prosecution will disclose all evidence pre-trial, and the defendant can construct a defence. The suspect's rights are not compromised due to media blackout.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

What is there to report on? Where is the evidence that mental instability is the reason for what the shooter did? Has he ever been diagnosed with any psychological or emotional disorders?

If MSM is going to report on his "irrational views" then they are going to need to publish the manifesto. And right now I don't see that happening.

RBBM

MSM is cherry picking excerpts from the manifesto. You don't see them, for the most part, reporting that he aligns most with The People's Republic of China. That makes him an extreme right-wing Socialist. Not much that he says makes sense. IMO MOO

 

[otto]

THE CHRISTCHURCH SHOOTINGS SHOULD IMPLICATE ALL WHITE AUSTRALIANS
The Christchurch Shootings Should Implicate All White Australians

Interesting.

When, for example, a Muslim commits a terror attack, it's always "not all Muslims".

But apparently when a white person commits a terror attack, all whites are responsible? Why isn't it "not all whites?" What is the agenda behind all of this white guilting?

And could this be the kind of thing that motivates shooters like Tarrant?

IMO

This response is not surprising. Muslims have long argued that the actions of extremists are not representative of Muslim beliefs. That perspective has been widely accepted because it is true.

Any argument that the actions of extremists are representative of an entire religion or race - not sure since those terms are confused and intertwined by media - are very likely those of extremists.

The Caucasian murderer killed Caucasians who practice a specific religion, claiming his actions are based on race. The irresponsible media ran with the idea that this lunatic murdered people of a specific religion because they are of a different race. Complete ignorance on the part of reporters.

 

[cobalt sky]

I am curious if you read beyond the headline? Your comments seem to suggest something other than reaction to the author’s opinion and discussion of the complexities of racism in Australia.

Oh I read the entire article. I always love comments like these from righteous virtue signalers: "We are a nation born of shame. A white-majority Australia exists only as the result of a genocidal invasion..." (snipped from the article).

And I imagine that the author of the article has packed her bags, booked her flight out of the country that she is willing to give back to the indigenous peoples, and is welcoming an indigenous family to take over her home as we speak? Yeah, I thought not.

IMO.

 

[human]

It's not surprising that people confuse religion and race, seems to happen quite often. The suspect murdered Caucasian people who practice one type of religion, and the media has gone crazy describing him as a racist. Go figure.

Did he not talk about getting things back to whites?

 

[human]

Shocking! This is why the murderer's actions and words need to be discussed in a more responsible context. Pretending that he is a normal thinking man who adhered to a rational ideology gives the lunatic credibility and will inevitably lead to a retaliatory response. There needs to be much more responsible perspectives, discussion and reporting on his mental instability and irrational views.

Seriously? Who cares what he says. He is an idiot consumed by hate who says stupid things just like many people in the world. People who believe women should be below a man, for instance.

Why analyze the ramblings of a madman?

 

[Inthedetails]

St. Paul's college pupils invited inside Auckland mosque to sing beautiful hymn

St. Paul's college pupils invited inside Auckland mosque to sing beautiful hymn

"We were meant to just walk up, say a prayer and sing a song outside but they were kind enough to invite us inside."

The group sang a sombre but beautiful rendition of 'Mō Maria' - a Māori language hymn.



NZ is proving to be such a leader by example to the world, imo.

 

[otto]

What is there to report on? Where is the evidence that mental instability is the reason for what the shooter did? Has he ever been diagnosed with any psychological or emotional disorders?

If MSM is going to report on his "irrational views" then they are going to need to publish the manifesto. And right now I don't see that happening.

What evidence is there that a man who walked into a building and shot 50 people has mental instability? Seriously? Is there any place where that is considered normal?

If MSM is going to report on the news, it is important to report facts. It is irresponsible and dangerous to present the facts according to the opinion of the mass murderer.

 

[otto]

Did he not talk about getting things back to whites?

I don't think so. He walked into a building and shot a bunch of people. That is a crazy thing to do. He posted some lunatic ramblings on some obscure website - equally crazy. Anyone who gives his crazy ideas legs is probably looking to create conflict and promote his craziness. That is, I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to promote his crazy ideas or give them any validity.

 

[human]

I don't think so. He walked into a building and shot a bunch of people. That is a crazy thing to do. He posted some lunatic ramblings on some obscure website - equally crazy. Anyone who gives his crazy ideas legs is probably looking to create conflict and promote his craziness. That is, I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to promote his crazy ideas or give them any validity.

He talked about our land our country or whatever. I forget. Just the SOS of other people who have issues of not receiving love.

 

[otto]

He talked about our land our country or whatever. I forget. Just the SOS of other people who have issues of not receiving love.

How do we know what he "talked about" without delving into his lunatic ramblings? He's a crazy person. Why waste time promoting his crazy person ideas?

 

[glamourkitty1922]

deleted by me

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Although interestingly, while no suggestion if media being restricted at this stage, this article does detail the various special powers that can be applied around any trial. Timely to the original comment Analysis: What powers does judge have to curb fear of hate speech during Christchurch terror trial?

Secret trials? That's horrible. They don't even have fair trials? I'm learning all too much about New Zealand and my heart goes out to the poor inhabitants.