New Zealand - White Island volcano erupts, 19 dead, many injuries from cruise excursion, 9 Dec 2019 *charges*

[JerseyGirl]

NZ Police Opening Criminal Probe of Deaths at Volcano Island

Police Deputy Commissioner John Tims did not go into details of the criminal investigation but said it would sit alongside an investigation by health and safety regulators. The announcement indicates authorities are concerned safety standards may have been breached.

 

[they'll get you]

The majority of the wounded had been already removed by the White Island Tours guides. (blue & white striped shirts)
I want to give credit to these guys who, knowing they’d lost friends and workmates but still saved many peoples’ lives by getting them onto their boat.

I think they are the unsung hero’s here and should not be sued.

How White Island first responders rescued critically injured patients
Intensive care paramedic Russell Clarke travelled to the island to assist with the rescue efforts soon after the eruption occurred.

"We were already hearing reports over the ambulance radio that there were multiple patients on boats already," he said.

How first responders rescued patients in volcano's 'Chernobyl-like' conditions

 

[they'll get you]

NZ Police Opening Criminal Probe of Deaths at Volcano Island

Police Deputy Commissioner John Tims did not go into details of the criminal investigation but said it would sit alongside an investigation by health and safety regulators. The announcement indicates authorities are concerned safety standards may have been breached.

IMO it’s the health and safety regulators who control safety standards have breached the safety standards.

Don’t sue Mother Nature nor the tour company who obviously didn’t know and certainly not Royal Carribean.

I wonder what the disclaimers say on the tourists’ receipts.

 

[JerseyGirl]

My daughter is planning a trip to Southeast Asia and one of her options is a Mount Pinatubo hike in the Philippines. There are tours, hikes and guides available. In 1991, Pinatubo was the second largest eruption of this century and affected a densely populated area.

It amazes me that there are tours and hikes to these other active volcanoes around the world.

 

[JerseyGirl]

New Zealand Red Cross name Australians missing in White Island eruption

 

[JerseyGirl]

Missing Newlyweds Found Suffering Severe Burns Following Desperate Search After Volcano Eruption

The missing American couple, whose families hadn’t heard from after the New Zealand volcano eruption, has been located.

Matt and Lauren Urey, two newlyweds from Virginia, were both airlifted to different hospitals to treat their burns.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

New Zealand Volcano Became a Deadly Tourist Draw. Now the Question Is Why.

Visitors were allowed to tour the mouth of the active White Island volcano despite recent warnings about bursts of gas and steam.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Stories of injured, missing in New Zealand volcano eruption

Wellington, New Zealand – Officials say 47 people from New Zealand, United States, Australia, Germany, Britain, China and Malaysia were on a New Zealand volcanic island when it suddenly erupted. Of those, dozens were killed, injured or are missing.

Details are scarce because conditions on the island are too dangerous for officials to return and disaster victim identification experts have only begun their work. Some of the initial information about the dead, injured and missing...

 

[human]

I cannot imagine that the cruise line will not also be sued. They contract with tours and ask for their safety information. The cruise line gets a nice hefty commission on tours.

 

[Betty P]

New Zealand Volcano Became a Deadly Tourist Draw. Now the Question Is Why.

Visitors were allowed to tour the mouth of the active White Island volcano despite recent warnings about bursts of gas and steam.

When the almighty dollar takes priority over the safety of customers....

Vacationers who aren't from the area put some faith and trust in these people, assuming the tour is safe or at least has little risk. These business people have a moral and ethical responsibility to put the safety of customers and employees ahead of profits.

 

[musicaljoke]

If I recall correctly, one cannot sue for injury in NZ. Is this still true?

 

[Gardenista]

If I recall correctly, one cannot sue for injury in NZ. Is this still true?

I read this is the case. Something about it being a no-fault country, which is terrible if there was negligence. Some of these poor people are going to suffer for a lifetime with their injuries.

 

[Hatfield]

Such a sad situation. Prayers for all injured and deceased and prayers for their family and friends.

JMO
I have mixed emotions about anybody being held responsible. Im leaning toward that nobody should really be held responsible unless there was a false or hidden advertising that minimized the real risk with tours like this.

Here is why I feel that way currently. Subject to change as I learn more about this particular tourist spot.

There are activities all over the World that have inherant danger and risk built-in to the activity.

Volcanoes like this could stay somewhat neutral without a full eruption for years and years. They also could explode at any moment. Nobody can really predict exactly when the next eruption would take place.

So businesses and tourist adventures such as these have basically 2 choices. Either eliminate them altogether where nobody from the public would be allowed to tour it close OR continue with tours like this in the future and let each person decide if the risk is worth it for them to go on one of these tours like this.

Disclaimers and warnings about the tour that the public has to sign a waiver to board one of these tours is similar in many ways to many other activities people sometimes do on vacation trips.

Whether it be parasailing, Scuba Diving, Off-Road 4-wheel drive trips, Swim with the Sharks type tours, or many other types of activities, they each have a level of risk. The public person can either choose to accept the risk or choose not to and just dont go.

So unless something shady was done in the advertising to fool people into thinking it was safe, I am leaning towards a feeling that no action should be taken against the operators of the tours.

Its not too dis-similar to the risk and waiver I used to see on the back of my ski lift ticket when I went snow skiing in the Rockies of Colorado. I cant remember exactly what it said but something along of the lines of
"Skiing is an inheritently dangerous sport. You are electing to ski at your own risk".

Dangers when skiing can come in many forms including avalanches, other skiiers, trees in the way, etc. I chose to accept that risk and if I had gotten hurt I always felt it was my choice why I was there in the first place.

With that said, a lawyer once told me those "waivers" that we sign arent worth the paper they are printed on because people can and will attempt to sue places regardless of the waivers. Sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not in the courts.

 

[human]

I cannot imagine that the cruise line will not also be sued. They contract with tours and ask for their safety in

I read this is the case. Something about it being a no-fault country, which is terrible if there was negligence. Some of these poor people are going to suffer for a lifetime with their injuries.

I wonder how that would work with the cruise ship since it is not a New Zealand company

 

[FrostOwl]

To have 80% burns means that he has burns over most of the body, for example having burns on a whole arm is 9% of the body, or a whole leg is 18% burns. There are three degrees of burn damage, from something similar to a bad sunburn, or blisters, to a full dermal burn where all the skin layers are damaged. Add to skin damage, burns in the air-ways from breathing in super-hot air, I fear that several of the patients at the burn units will not survive, regardless of being given the best care they can get.
I haven't worked at a burns unit, but I used to write case records for a burns unit, so I know what a very long and very painful time those patients with the worst burns have in front of them, for example having to be under full anesthesia when re-dressing the burns. For the worst cases it means months at a hospital, and there is always a risk of infections as long as the skin isn't healed (or scarred).

An article about the work the burns units in NZ are facing at the moment: New Zealand volcano eruption: injured tourists suffering severe burns to skin and lungs

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Voice of reason, @Hatfield. I find it disturbing that people talk of suing before even knowing the full facts. This was a horrible tragedy which could only have been prevented had that island closed itself to visitors years ago. There may be nobody to sue as volcanic eruptions are notoriously difficult to predict so what happens then? However, those poor souls that don't have free healthcare will have huge medical bills to pay so I can see the attraction in wanting compensation, though I am fairly confident NZ will pay for most of it.

But please, we don't even have names or a body count or any witness testimonies yet. People need to stop talking about suing and compensation and dollars. It's completely vulgar in the grand scheme of death and pain and missing loved ones.

 

[FrostOwl]

The majority of the wounded had been already removed by the White Island Tours guides. (blue & white striped shirts)
I want to give credit to these guys who, knowing they’d lost friends and workmates but still saved many peoples’ lives by getting them onto their boat.

I think they are the unsung hero’s here and should not be sued.

How White Island first responders rescued critically injured patients
Intensive care paramedic Russell Clarke travelled to the island to assist with the rescue efforts soon after the eruption occurred.

"We were already hearing reports over the ambulance radio that there were multiple patients on boats already," he said.

How first responders rescued patients in volcano's 'Chernobyl-like' conditions

Two commercial helicopter pilots also aided with the rescue, they were not involved with the tours to the island, but went there on their own initiative to get people out from the island. One of the pilots knew the local guide who died on the island, and saw his body there, and placed it in a safe place so it can be retrieved later. New Zealand helicopter pilot describes horror of volcano rescue

 

[Pi Thoughts]

A volcano expert has said it is up to every tourist to decide if they're willing to walk around a volcanic hazard zone, in the wake of the White Island disaster.

Associate Professor Oliver Nebel, from the School of Earth Atmosphere and Environment at Melbourne's Monash University, spoke to A Current Affair.

"It's one of those things we cannot predict as vulcanologists," he said of the explosion.

"We have about 10,000 or more tourists per year go on the island, despite regular volcanic activity," he said.

"It is a volcanic hazard zone."
Volcano expert says people should 'decide for themselves' on blast danger

 

[human]

double post

 

[human]

Voice of reason, @Hatfield. I find it disturbing that people talk of suing before even knowing the full facts. This was a horrible tragedy which could only have been prevented had that island closed itself to visitors years ago. There may be nobody to sue as volcanic eruptions are notoriously difficult to predict so what happens then? However, those poor souls that don't have free healthcare will have huge medical bills to pay so I can see the attraction in wanting compensation, though I am fairly confident NZ will pay for most of it.

But please, we don't even have names or a body count or any witness testimonies yet. People need to stop talking about suing and compensation and dollars. It's completely vulgar in the grand scheme of death and pain and missing loved ones.

When tourists go somewhere, they have no idea about the places they are going to even if they are researched online.

I feel it is up to the cruise line to investigate and vet anything or place . They make 100% or more of the price the tour operator charges