GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #12

[Dixie811]

On a different topic...

Although we never received any information that Abby received medical treatment, I hope she submitted to an exam for purposes of the investigation (before showering). I think certain things such as whether her teeth were brushed, legs shaved, how much sun exposure her skin had, etc. could indicate some things that may be relevant down the line. Of course it doesn't need to be said that such an examination could also reveal any sexual abuse she may have endured (a terrible thought).

 

[Fireweed]

Well, a lot of people who are commenting at least appear very put upon right now. Public sentiment has certainly taken a negative turn in past 24 hours.

One thing most people will not tolerate is a general feeling of being messed with. That is the feeling that I am seeing in the majority of the comments on the internet right now.

LE can do whatever they want to further the investigation, but they simply ought to be aware that right now, the public seems to be feeling "used". I am not saying that LE is not doing an great job investigating this case. Please do not take it as that. I merely suggesting that generally, when you ask a person for help, in order to get it from them, you have to be in that person's good graces.

Personally, if I saw a guy that looked like that sketch, I would call LE right away and be very helpful and cooperative. I am just pointing out what (objectively) seems to be going on right now.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Look, LE really got the public involved in this case. I agree that LE's only "real" responsibility is to investigate this case, but when any person or organization asks for (and gets) the assistance of the public at large, then they should expect that there will be a huge response from the public at large when the case turns out like this. LE and the investigators of this case have an ethical duty at this point to address the public and at the very least try and put an end to some of the nastiness that is infecting the online discussions at this point. Heck, they could even lie in order to do that. "At this point, we have no reason to believe that Abby was pregnant" or "As of now, we have asked the family and Abby not to give interviews or address the public" or "We understand that we have asked for assistance using vague and cryptic information. We regret that is all we can give you right now, but your help stills means a lot to us and to the family".

To me, any of those things would really go a long way right now.

I've read this viewpoint several times in this thread, and have a couple questions in response (to this and earlier posts):

1. Why do you believe LE has an ethical duty to respond to rumor?

2. Why do you believe LE isn't being professional simply because they are not making rumor control a top priority?

3. Why are you certain that LE hasn't shared everything they can safely share (in regards to protecting the safety and/or reputation of a minor)? What knowledge propels this? (I'm late to the case so may have missed something.)

4. Have you considered that IF any of the rumors turned out to be true, that LE sharing any facts concerning those would only serve to feed the rumor mill rather than stop it? People that like to gossip are going to gossip--whether they have info based on fact or not.

I do agree and have all along agreed that eventually the people in that town deserve to know some of the facts of the case. I believe that NOT because of tax dollars or people's curiosity or their sense of 'entitlement,' but because of the love and emotional investment that so many neighbors and friends put into the search. To put up a wall of secrecy and never provide a bare-bones factual type of closure would be to leave people feeling taken advantage of, emotionally, and possibly make them more cynical about such disappearances in the future--not a good outcome.

But all in good time. I trust that if LE have held certain facts close to the chest it is with good reason. It's my first assumption...not that they're mismanaging things and being unprofessional.

ETA: this is not to rag on you, Fireweed; I think many of your posts are truly insightful, and have appreciated reading them.

 

[Fireweed]

I've read this viewpoint several times in this thread, and have a couple questions in response (to this and earlier posts):

1. Why do you believe LE has an ethical duty to respond to rumor?

2. Why do you believe LE isn't being professional simply because they are not making rumor control a top priority?

3. Why are you certain that LE hasn't shared everything they can safely share (in regards to protecting the safety and/or reputation of a minor)? What knowledge propels this? (I'm late to the case so may have missed something.)

4. Have you considered that IF any of the rumors turned out to be true, that LE sharing any facts concerning those would only serve to feed the rumor mill rather than stop it? People that like to gossip are going to gossip--whether they have info based on fact or not.

I do agree and have all along agreed that eventually the people in that town deserve to know some of the facts of the case. I believe that NOT because of tax dollars or people's curiosity or their sense of 'entitlement,' but because of the love and emotional investment that so many neighbors and friends put into the search. To put up a wall of secrecy and never provide a bare-bones factual type of closure would be to leave people feeling taken advantage of, emotionally, and possibly make them more cynical about such disappearances in the future--not a good outcome.

But all in good time. I trust that if LE have held certain facts close to the chest it is with good reason. It's my first assumption...not that they're mismanaging things and being unprofessional.

ETA: this is not to rag on you, Fireweed; I think many of your posts are truly insightful, and have appreciated reading them.

See my post right above this one where I give the basis for my reasoning. I am basing it on what have been reading from commenters all over the internet in the past couple of days.

 

[liltexans]

'We just want the truth': Father of Abigail Hernandez's boyfriend demands answers over where teenager was for nine months and reveals the moment she could have been spared her ordeal

She grew incredibly close to Jimmy’s parents, James and Denise and in an exclusive interview with MailOnline, tow-truck driver James said there are still so many things surrounding the case that just don’t add up.

He said: 'It was not like her to run away, not the Abby I knew. She was with us just two days before she went missing. We went to a local fair together and she seemed great, absolutely excellent. I could just not understand it when she went missing.

'Now she’s back, apparently she looks fit and healthy. Well, I'm sorry; if you are on the streets for nine months you're not going to look healthy.

'I have instant messaged Abby’s mother Zenya, but we have not had any contact. All I want is the truth, I don’t care what happened, but I want to know who the sons of b*****s were who had her for nine months.'

He went on: 'When she went missing, I hurt. I was upset, I cared about her and I would wake up in the night hurting. I had to take time off work, my boss sent me home.

'My son Jimmy was so shocked on Monday when he heard she was back. He has been waiting for her to come home. He’s not been the same, because he has been angry and moody.

'They were together for almost a year. She was his first love, you have no idea how much he’s hurting. He’s only 15 and he is very confused.

'When she first went missing, he was out of school for a week. He was really cut up. He has a letter Abby had written him and he used to read it every night.

'He blamed himself for six months because he had seen her walking down the street the day she went missing and he was the last person to have contact with her.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-moment-spared-ordeal.html#ixzz38W03Ng5w
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM

Wagner said if there were a criminal defendant in this case, that person would not be asked to pay restitution since the police are paid to solve cases anyway.

"It's what we do," said Wagner. "It's our job."
http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/...t-in-abby-case

I've read this viewpoint several times in this thread, and have a couple questions in response (to this and earlier posts):

1. Why do you believe LE has an ethical duty to respond to rumor?

2. Why do you believe LE isn't being professional simply because they are not making rumor control a top priority?

3. Why are you certain that LE hasn't shared everything they can safely share (in regards to protecting the safety and/or reputation of a minor)? What knowledge propels this? (I'm late to the case so may have missed something.)

4. Have you considered that IF any of the rumors turned out to be true, that LE sharing any facts concerning those would only serve to feed the rumor mill rather than stop it? People that like to gossip are going to gossip--whether they have info based on fact or not.

I do agree and have all along agreed that eventually the people in that town deserve to know some of the facts of the case. I believe that NOT because of tax dollars or people's curiosity or their sense of 'entitlement,' but because of the love and emotional investment that so many neighbors and friends put into the search. To put up a wall of secrecy and never provide a bare-bones factual type of closure would be to leave people feeling taken advantage of, emotionally, and possibly make them more cynical about such disappearances in the future--not a good outcome.

But all in good time. I trust that if LE have held certain facts close to the chest it is with good reason. It's my first assumption...not that they're mismanaging things and being unprofessional.

ETA: this is not to rag on you, Fireweed; I think many of your posts are truly insightful, and have appreciated reading them.

 

[AnaTeresa]

If he (James) really cared about Abby, he wouldn't be running his mouth to the media like this. :twocents:

 

[geevee]

On a slightly different note, while I am thankful for the addition of an artist sketch concerning this case, I see no real reason to search possible RSOs in the area for matches (JMO). I'm sure LE has already done that--and if relevant, they've also probably shown possible photo matches to AH for her response.

Personally, I believe the sketch was made and is being circulated because the man is NOT someone already in police records. All we've been told about this person is that Abby has identified him as the one who "drove her away." The wording seems purposely pretty vague, and it doesn't automatically mean the guy we're looking for is necessarily a pervert--or even a criminal. (Eg. Maybe she was hitchhiking that day, he picked her up and dropped her off somewhere, and LE wants to question him in order to track AH's next contact.)

BBM

I have been thinking very similarly, possibly LE only wants to confirm what Abby has told them about the person in the sketch. At this point, with the vagueness of LE statements, many things are possible but at least that sounds reasonable.

 

[liltexans]

If he (James) really cared about Abby, he wouldn't be running his mouth to the media like this. :twocents:

I know, it's awful. Did you read the whole article? The boyfriend's dad gives a lot of information. I don't how much of it is true or if any of it is true, but he sounds angry. I'm not surprised Zenya isn't returning his texts.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

See my post right above this one where I give the basis for my reasoning. I am basing it on what have been reading from commenters all over the internet in the past couple of days.

I saw it--I know you're concerned about negative comments, and I think that's sweet. But you didn't answer my questions.

 

[necco]

AH is a 15 year old. Ever try to get a happy 15 year old to tell you something they didn't want to talk about? Now imagine a 15 year old who has been through something traumatic. Asking her too many questions right away could actually be quite detrimental to her. We don't know her state of mind. Heck, she might be sleeping all week. (Hey, she's a teenager, they sleep a lot under the best circumstances and this is certainly not the best circumstances.) She may be physically incapable of answering anything beyond simple questions as she might be overcome with emotions when she tries to talk about it. She may need some sort of anxiety treatment. We don't know. We don't need to know. She is a victim. She is home. LE and her family are almost certainly proceeding with the advice of mental health professionals.

Or

Maybe they know a lot, maybe she has told them massive amounts of information and they are on the verge of busting this wide open.

We don't know. But I trust the cops and her family in this case. And Abby is home and safe and that's the most important thing.

 

[gitana1]

<rs&bbm>

Which might be precisely why she returned in the same clothing. New clothing could provide clues about where they were purchased, leading to clues about where she was living and/or being detained. And borrowed, or used clothing, could hold DNA from someone other than Abby.

JMO

Great thought.

True enough. But if it is the guy next door, someone you currently trust around your family, wouldn't you want to know? Whoever it is (assuming there is a predator) he is some unsuspecting family's neighbor. Jmo

Yeah well if LE prematurely releases info about a suspect, they may lose their opportunity to actually arrest and convict him.

LE can't just release all info about every suspect. That could cause a horrible frenzy that makes it impossible to finish the investigation and gather evidence, or which could terribly harm an ultimately innocent suspect (ala Richard Jewell).

The ones I have seen here are pretty close when an arrest is made, but I understand it depends on the artist and the witness. Why no age, I wonder, or any distinguishing characteristics (tattoos, teeth, voice, accent, etc.)? Very sketchy IMHO.

No pun intended!!!

The part that confuses me most is he "drove the girl away". I can't see kidnapping considering how she returned home. I just imagine a kidnapping victim to be like the girls Castro held captive, that is their demeanor. Of course no one knows what Abby's emotional state was when she returned hone. Dunno.

Why? Like you said, you don't know her demeanor. Look at Shawn Hornbeck, Elizabeth Smart, Steven Stayner, who, btw, never was able to overcome the nasty comments about how he liked it and stayed willingly), Jaycee Dugard, etc. every captive responds differently to the experience as far as the level of privacy they maintain.

As as to whether kidnap victims are ever simply dropped off somewhere and set free, as opposed to rescued, when they are found alive, that happens not infrequently. Usually for shorter kidnap durations, but it is not atypical when a child survives.

Somewhere further up this thread someone remembered an attempted abduction near Conway with a blue pickup truck. That was in fact, in June, in Gorham, about 20 miles north of North Conway..
I'm sorry I'm not quoting whover posted it, I can't seem to find it again!

http://www.newhampshire.com/article/20140608/AGGREGATION/140609137/-1/news

Wow. Great find!

 

[Dixie811]

Well at least the Daily Mail finally revealed to us what Rueben does for a living... I know a lot of us posters were wondering for months back when Abby first disappeared. I don't recall that we ever found out.

 

[Fireweed]

I totally understand why the boyfriend's dad is upset and angry. He is protective of his son, and you read the article, you will see that his son went through way more than any kid that age could possibly handle.

I do not blame him one bit for expressing his frustration right now. Go dad!

 

[takeitfromme412]

NH Law Enforcement and the FBI are doing everything they can to get to the bottom of all of this. I've just read the past 6 pages and saw LE being bashed and their tactics questioned, crap news articles from tabloid "news" websites that speak to people who WILL talk although they SHOULD NOT or don't know nothing anyway.
Abby is a child and though she is safe I certainly feel she is still very much at risk and there are people responsible for her disappearance (IMO) and if you think, even just think someone whether you know them or not don't blast it on the Internet so they can RUN!!!! REPORT IT!!!!! call it in, directly to Conway PD...... common sense and Abby and her family's safety is what comes to mind when I see RSO's being blasted everywhere and LE being bashed.... Let LE do their job, BETTER YET help them and call in info if you think you have it!!!!

 

[necco]

'We just want the truth': Father of Abigail Hernandez's boyfriend demands answers over where teenager was for nine months and reveals the moment she could have been spared her ordeal



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-moment-spared-ordeal.html#ixzz38W03Ng5w
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

This is just a weird, weird, weird interview. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[2Hope4]

• He also revealed that his son saw Abby from school bus the day she vanished but driver would not stop to let him accompany her home
• Spoke of how he had to take lie detector test after she disappeared
  
• Family also quizzed over whether Jimmy had got her pregnant after they were allegedly caught on store cameras buying a testing kit
• But his son denies this and police sources said they do not believe she has had a baby

&#8203;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-moment-spared-ordeal.html#ixzz38W03Ng5w

 

[tlcya]

NH Law Enforcement and the FBI are doing everything they can to get to the bottom of all of this. I've just read the past 6 pages and saw LE being bashed and their tactics questioned, crap news articles from tabloid "news" websites that speak to people who WILL talk although they SHOULD NOT or don't know nothing anyway.
Abby is a child and though she is safe I certainly feel she is still very much at risk and there are people responsible for her disappearance (IMO) and if you think, even just think someone whether you know them or not don't blast it on the Internet so they can RUN!!!! REPORT IT!!!!! call it in, directly to Conway PD...... common sense and Abby and her family's safety is what comes to mind when I see RSO's being blasted everywhere and LE being bashed.... Let LE do their job, BETTE YET help them and call in info if you think you have it!!!!

you have every right to your opinions and I agree with some of them. <Mod Snip>

Likewise with area RSO registry information. There are very strict guidelines here about what can and cannot be published in that regard and people are following those guidelines and staying within TOS. I doubt highly it will turn out to be someone one the registry but it is always possible I guess. I feel pretty confident that LE checked RSOs when Abby went missing. It is SOP.

I 100% agree with you about letting LE do its jobs, people who know the family need to keep their mouths out of the press and let them do it. John Q Public should likewise stop screaming for answers from a minor child.

<Mod Snip>

 

[Fireweed]

• He also revealed that his son saw Abby from school bus the day she vanished but driver would not stop to let him accompany her home
• Spoke of how he had to take lie detector test after she disappeared
  
• Family also quizzed over whether Jimmy had got her pregnant after they were allegedly caught on store cameras buying a testing kit
• But his son denies this and police sources said they do not believe she has had a baby

&#8203;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-moment-spared-ordeal.html#ixzz38W03Ng5w

I feel so sorry for the son in this case. This must have been traumatizing for him. His girlfriend vanishes and then he gets asked all about sex and whether he thinks his father did it.

Again, I can completely see why the father wants answers right now. I know, I know...he is wrong and should just give Abby and her family privacy and it is really none of his business and he should just be patient and let LE do their job. Did I do that right?

 

[gitana1]

I totally understand why the boyfriend's dad is upset and angry. He is protective of his son, and you read the article, you will see that his son went through way more than any kid that age could possibly handle.

I do not blame him one bit for expressing his frustration right now. Go dad!

The feelings of this father and his son cannot and should not dictate police procedure or drive the investigation.