Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #11 *Arrest*

[DLT88]

Well, I know one thing... the media caught everything on video when WN decided to drop and hit the deck. If WN was prostrating, he forgot to make the sign of the cross before going down....

I knew a young schizophrenic man many years ago who was on meds that were helping a lot. But he said before when he was not on meds or meds that were not working so well for him, he would have episodes where he would suddenly, without warning, see someone and become violent. He said something inside his head told him to harm this person, and he would run over and start beating away at this innocent person.

My boss also knew a guy who developed schizophrenia in his early 20's while he was already married. His wife had to keep an eye on him. One night, he was sitting watching TV peacefully and she thought it would be ok to run to the store down the street and be back in 20 minutes. She told him to stay right there and watch TV until she got back. She was a wreck being gone but was calmed down when she came back and found him there watching TV so calmly. In a few moments, cop cars were racing into their driveway and pounding on her door. The cops pointed to her husband on the couch and said a man was just beat up by him 10 minutes ago when he just walked past the house. So sometimes these things can happen -- and the person can look normal (or a bit catatonic) right afterwards.

I see WN as being very unstable in that interview -- nervous, guilty, and on the verge of beating the interviewer to death at times -- but holding back. He looked on the verge of exploding.

 

[Pensfan]

I knew a young schizophrenic man many years ago who was on meds that were helping a lot. But he said before when he was not on meds or meds that were not working so well for him, he would have episodes where he would suddenly, without warning, see someone and become violent. He said something inside his head told him to harm this person, and he would run over and start beating away at this innocent person.

My boss also knew a guy who developed schizophrenia in his early 20's while he was already married. His wife had to keep an eye on him. One night, he was sitting watching TV peacefully and she thought it would be ok to run to the store down the street and be back in 20 minutes. She told him to stay right there and watch TV until she got back. She was a wreck being gone but was calmed down when she came back and found him there watching TV so calmly. In a few moments, cop cars were racing into their driveway and pounding on her door. The cops pointed to her husband on the couch and said a man was just beat up by him 10 minutes ago when he just walked past the house. So sometimes these things can happen -- and the person can look normal (or a bit catatonic) right afterwards.

I see WN as being very unstable in that interview -- nervous, guilty, and on the verge of beating the interviewer to death at times -- but holding back. He looked on the verge of exploding.

Most schizophrenics are not explosive and dangerous, but there is a small subgroup that is (a link from a university study on this topic is posted somewhere in this thread). I hope when Celina's mom and her daughter moved that they adopted a huge protective indoor dog.

 

[ClaireNC]

Do we actually know what type of psychiatric condition WN has been diagnosed with? I see statements about schizophrenia and/or paranoid schizophrenia but do we know that? There are other types of psychotic disorders that are not necessarily schizophrenia.

Pensfan, I found your observations about the use of symbolism among psychotic people very interesting. It was something I did not know about and your posts caused me to do a little research. I love to learn new things every day, so thank you for feeding my intellect today!

Did anybody notice the way that WN was moving his one hand/arm up and down when he was particularly frustrated in the most recent interview? That movement is something I have observed among other mentally ill individuals. I don't think it is necessarily symbolic, but just a reaction I noticed to the frustration.

 

[sreshowtime]

......
I don’t have time to post and you might be bored to read theories about symbolism in psychosis.

OT_ awesome subject matter Pens- I love that kind of stuff, especially relationships between schizophrenia/mental 'dis'orders and religion. Also symbolism related to sociological perspectives , Mead, Dewey, et al. Oh theories, good stuff.

 

[Pensfan]

OT_ awesome subject matter Pens- I love that kind of stuff, especially relationships between schizophrenia/mental 'dis'orders and religion. Also symbolism related to sociological perspectives , Mead, Dewey, et al. Oh theories, good stuff.

Although many psychotic behaviors appear to be purposeless, some are not. You might enjoy this article:
http://www.uic.edu/orgs/convening/disturbe.htm



http://www.wmur.com/r/29453906/detail.html
Hurray for this reporter who found Wendell and interviewed him!

Wendell’s thought process is disjointed and slow. He has trouble recalling specific words and answering questions. He has cognitive impairments. Hopefully, this is because he is on a long-acting antipsychotic medication.

Someone on this thread noticed that his left arm was repeatedly doing something strange. His arm goes up at odd moments. This may be an involuntary movement which could also be from psychotropic medications. Notice that when he puts his left hand down at his side that his right hand’s fingers appear to be “pill rolling”. This is another involuntary movement.

 

[k4kathy]

On other murder cases where the victims were found in blankets, was the family shown the blanket? What was on the blanket that was too terrible to show the mom? Had Celina's outer skin stuck to it? Had the perp chewed on it? Did the perp write on it? What? I can think of a hundred really creepy things, but none are backed by any knowledge.

Good question Pens... what was it about the condition of the blanket that could have been any different than the condition of the pajama bottoms/underwear that LN did view? For that blanket to have skin slippage products or whatever??? adhered to it, the blanket must have been secured to the body extremely snug before being placed in water. I assume there was no pajama top/shirt on the body when it was found, unless LE had reason for LN not to view it either. What's your theory on the top?

P.S. I think you jinxed me, I've caught a stomach bug and would give about anything for that phenergan right now (pill form of course hehe)

 

[deelytful1]

Do we actually know what type of psychiatric condition WN has been diagnosed with? I see statements about schizophrenia and/or paranoid schizophrenia but do we know that? There are other types of psychotic disorders that are not necessarily schizophrenia.

Snipped

Here u go:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-hampshire-girl-search-extends-canada/story?id=14178067

A forensic examiner deemed Noyes a paranoid schizophrenic who likey developed his mental illness while in the Air Force, according to court documents.

 

[deelytful1]

My theory on the blanket:
Only the killer would know what blanket Celina was wrapped in. Perhaps they want to keep it this way in the case of an eventual confession or slip by the perp during an interview (you know, things only the killer (s) would know?)

 

[Pensfan]

Good question Pens... what was it about the condition of the blanket that could have been any different than the condition of the pajama bottoms/underwear that LN did view? For that blanket to have skin slippage products or whatever??? adhered to it, the blanket must have been secured to the body extremely snug before being placed in water. I assume there was no pajama top/shirt on the body when it was found, unless LE had reason for LN not to view it either. What's your theory on the top?

P.S. I think you jinxed me, I've caught a stomach bug and would give about anything for that phenergan right now (pill form of course hehe)

I hope you feel better soon. Do you have anything with diphenhydramine in it?

I didn't think about how the pajama top might not have been on Celina's body. I am clueless about the blanket and now clueless about the top. It is weird that the mom wasn't allowed to see these items, but was allowed to see another clothing item.

 

[DLT88]

I hope you feel better soon. Do you have anything with diphenhydramine in it?

I didn't think about how the pajama top might not have been on Celina's body. I am clueless about the blanket and now clueless about the top. It is weird that the mom wasn't allowed to see these items, but was allowed to see another clothing item.

Perhaps the pajama top had a huge rip or tear that showed signs of a struggle that only the murderer would know about so that's another thing they want to keep secret.

 

[cluciano63]

Why show mom any of the clothes, then? They probably were able to ID Celina without them and surely by other means. I don't understand holding back the blanket, unless they already know who it belongs to, although I don't understand how they could, without her confirming it.

 

[sreshowtime]

Just curious, Do we know for actual fact that WN was relieved of his military duties, with disability pay, because of his mental status? Or was that assumed? Honorable or dishonorable discharge? Or did he maybe get disability after the fact. I don't think he actually retired from the military? I don't know that it is definite public knowledge of what he is living on....

 

[k4kathy]

I hope you feel better soon. Do you have anything with diphenhydramine in it?

I didn't think about how the pajama top might not have been on Celina's body. I am clueless about the blanket and now clueless about the top. It is weird that the mom wasn't allowed to see these items, but was allowed to see another clothing item.

Thanks Pens, and yes I do!
The chance that there was no pajama top indicates a possible sexual assault... in my opinion. I can speculate all I want, but without knowing the facts, it means nothing.
I notice you keep up with progress of the Oklahoma girl's murder cases. I've kept up also. Appears as if justice might be served very soon. I sure hope so.
Funny how we are drawn to certain cases.

 

[Pensfan]

Thanks Pens, and yes I do!
The chance that there was no pajama top indicates a possible sexual assault... in my opinion. I can speculate all I want, but without knowing the facts, it means nothing.
I notice you keep up with progress of the Oklahoma girl's murder cases. I've kept up also. Appears as if justice might be served very soon. I sure hope so.
Funny how we are drawn to certain cases.

It took so long for anything to "move" in finding the murderer(s) in Skyla's and Taylor's case. Hopefully this is not going to be the same in Celina's case.

Sadly, that is logical if a pajama top was not found on her. That poor precious child.......

If Wendell had a duel diagnosis, I wonder how long it will be before he relapses. The relapse rate is estimated to be 90% in the first four years. I hope he is very talkative when he is not sober and accidentally releases some important info. since he is not being cooperative with LE. If I were Celina's mom, I'd have a friend anonymously leave a bottle of his favorite "beverage" on his doorstep once a week.:crazy:

 

[bstnh1]

Sadly, I think this case will be filed for a long time in the "Unsolved Murders" drawer. There are quite a few unsolved murders in New Hampshire, some of which seemed to be a lot less of a mystery than this one.

 

[cluciano63]

Sadly, I think this case will be filed for a long time in the "Unsolved Murders" drawer. There are quite a few unsolved murders in New Hampshire, some of which seemed to be a lot less of a mystery than this one.

The only bit of relief is that at least Celina was found and not still "out there" like so many others...cases where there may never be even that amount of resolution.

 

[deelytful1]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111017/NEWS03/710179973

Investigation of Stewartstown girl’s killing remains a top police priority

“Sometimes cases are more challenging and difficult to solve than others. This case presents more challenges. That doesn’t mean we aren’t still working and striving to bring the person or persons involved to justice,” Senior Assistant Attorney General Jane E. Young said.

At this point, we don’t have sufficient evidence to bring a charge,” said Young, the lead prosecutor on the murder investigation.

“We have to prove our case beyond a reasonable doubt with admissible evidence. We can’t bring in opinions, rumors or speculation to prove our case,” she added of a murder investigation.

The article also mentions that WN is no longer staying at the motel he was at when he was interviewed last!! I wonder if people were harassing him, or what?

 

[Joe Friday]

With the latest statements made to the media by Jane Young I would have to thing she knows who the person or persons are that committed this crime. You would need to know who the perp or perps are before making a statement saying you don't have enough evidence to charge someone. It is kind of like putting the cart before the horse. You can't say you don't have enough evidence to bring charges without knowing who needs to be charged for committed the crime in the first place.

She also keeps hinting to the fact that there may be more than one person involved. Obviously if she only thought one person was involved she wouldn't keep referring to the perps in plural over and over. My hunch is that WN and who ever was on the porch that night are the individuals Jane Young keeps referring to.

Why do I think that???? Because someone hasn't received their truck and other items back that were impounded and it has been over two months now. There is no sense retaining a truck for evidence if it contains none.

But that is JMO.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111017/NEWS03/710179973

“At this point, we don’t have sufficient evidence to bring a charge,” said Young, the lead prosecutor on the murder investigation.

“We have to prove our case beyond a reasonable doubt with admissible evidence. We can’t bring in opinions, rumors or speculation to prove our case,” she added of a murder investigation.

 

[Joe Friday]

I hope you feel better soon. Do you have anything with diphenhydramine in it?

I didn't think about how the pajama top might not have been on Celina's body. I am clueless about the blanket and now clueless about the top. It is weird that the mom wasn't allowed to see these items, but was allowed to see another clothing item.

BBM

I don't recall reading anything that suggests that Celina was or was not found with pajama tops. I also don't recall LN stating that LE would not allow her to view the pajama tops, suggesting that Celina was found wearing pajama tops either. If I missed it some where please point me in the right direction.

I only recall reading that LE would not show LN the blanket and that LN stated something to the fact that she wanted to view the blanket to determined if the blanket came from her house. Perhaps meaning that she doesn't know if the blanket in question is even missing from the house or maybe that LE has told LN not to mention that the blanket is missing from the house if one is. This could all mean that either Celina was found not wearing pajama tops or there is some reason why LE didn't want LN to see the pajama tops and blanket.

One reason for this might be that Celina was stabbed, and there were numerous holes in both the pajama tops and the blanket and this would be key information on how Celina was killed and something that LE would not want anyone to know, including LN. Just because LE or the ME said they could not determine the MOD or COD early on in the investigation, does not mean that they didn't know. Anyone that follows cases all the way through the courts will know that LE never opens up and spills everything they know. It is amazing to learn what LE knew all along or how they caught the suspect in some cases when they eventually go to court.


I think Celina's autopsy reports are sealed so if Celina was stabbed and this is the reason why LE did not want LN to view the pajama tops (if they exist) and the blanket no one will know until the facts come out at trial. Which I hope will be soon.

All JMO

In her first sit-down interview since authorities determined Celina was killed, Louisia Noyes also revealed the girl’s body was in such a poor state that police would not allow her to see it — even after a funeral director’s restorative efforts.

Noyes also said police declined to show her the blanket found around Celina when police pulled her from the Connecticut River near her home Aug. 1.

“I asked if I could ID the blanket and see if it came from my house. They would only let me ID her pajama bottoms and her underwear,” she said.

There was no sign of a struggle in her home, she said, and if there was one, she didn’t hear it from her bedroom.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111017/NEWS03/710179973

 

[ChuckMaureen]

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re..._disputes_husbands_story/srvc=home&position=2

Celina Cass’ heartbroken mother is disputing her estranged husband’s account of the night the slain 11-year-old vanished, saying he wasn’t in bed early but instead was up drinking with friends at their West Stewartstown home.

“He was visiting on the porch with two friends. They were drinking on the porch. They were socializing,” Louisia Noyes said yesterday of Celina’s stepfather, Wendell Noyes.

bbm

Apparently, LN's account of that night conflicts with WN's account.

Define: "early".
For some, that might be 8:00 PM.
For others, that might be 1:30 AM.
Typically, I go to bed ~ 3:00 AM, so 1:30 AM would be "early" for me, and 8:00 PM would be "very, very early".

If LN left Celina in the living room and went upstairs to her bedroom @ 9:00 PM (as has been reported in articles referenced in this thread), how is it that LN knows if and for how long WN was on the front porch?

Did LN go downstairs (to the 1st level or basement) any time after 9:00 PM to check on Celina or WN?

In her first sit-down interview since authorities determined Celina was killed, Louisia Noyes also revealed the girl’s body was in such a poor state that police would not allow her to see it — even after a funeral director’s restorative efforts.

bbm

That could mean an advanced state of decomposition or, mutilation by other means. I suspect the former but might include both.

Noyes also said police declined to show her the blanket found around Celina when police pulled her from the Connecticut River near her home Aug. 1.

“I asked if I could ID the blanket and see if it came from my house. They would only let me ID her pajama bottoms and her underwear,” she said.

Was LN able or unable to provide the blanket in which Celina wrapped herself while they watched tv that evening?

If LN indicated that blanket is 'missing' then we might safely assume *if* Celina's body was found as wrapped in a blanket that it might be one and the same.

If there was no blanket found with the body then LE is attempting to 'challenge' the story.

Was Celina wearing pajamas when she was watching tv with her mother or did Celina change clothes after her mother went upstairs to bed?

Was Celina 'attacked' while changing in to her pajamas?

There was no sign of a struggle in her home, she said, and if there was one, she didn’t hear it from her bedroom.

No signs of a struggle doesn't mean there was none. One can struggle whilst in the grips of one or more perps and not disturb the perimeter.

Where was Celina attacked and how much space was there? Enough to accommodate more than one full-sized adult?

Did LN "hear" a struggle from any other room?

“I don’t know what happened,” she said. “If only I hadn’t had the fan or the TV on, I would have heard something.”

Why fan "or" tv?
I suspect LN meant, fan "and" tv or, does LN not recall if one or the other or both items were powered on?

I'm simply posing questions.