GUILTY NJ - Carolyn Byington, 26, killed inside her home, Plainsboro, 10 June 2019 *Arrest* #2

[Seattle1]

I guess I somehow missed the weapons charge - news to me! What is the charge?

NJ man charged in slaying of co-worker killed during lunch break will remain jailed

9/3/19

Byington was found dead June 10 in her Plainsboro apartment. Authorities have said she suffered multiple stab wounds and blunt force trauma.

Police went there after her colleagues at a marketing firm in Princeton became concerned when she didn’t return to work after lunch.

Saal’s attorney, Michael Roberts, said his client, who also faces a weapons charge, maintains his innocence. bbm

 

[cherrymeg]

A couple of thoughts:

Unlikely but she may have had a vanity plate.

He is an accountant, numbers are his game, maybe it comes easy to remember that many digits/letters?

I went out with someone once a very long time ago and he could tell you whose vehicle was whose to the tune of tons of people, almost identical vehicles he could differentiate, who was driving a vehicle when we passed someone and where almost everyone lived. Long story short, I came to find out that these were the actions of a cheater and someone who knows where all women live if they interested him, even the married ones, if their car was outside a business, etc., if their husband was at work, etc., etc.

They are likely also the actions of some stalkers and KS certainly could fit that in this case...

I know my mother's vehicle for sure when I see it in a parking lot because the three letters on the plate are the consonants in a word and Z is one of them so I could always determine if she was say at the grocery store when I happened to see her vehicle in the parking lot and was heading shopping myself. However, I could not tell you what the three numbers are so I do find it unusual he knew her plate number.

The strange thing is he stated this to someone, that he saw a plate like hers or some such... This hints to me that he does not think this is abnormal to know her or someone's plate number. I can tell you the person I am talking about above also did not realize what he did and did not realize knowing so much was fairly unusual so he showed what he knew without realizing it was a giveaway which over a short bit of time, I figured out the reason for.

Are we sure he said plate number? If he said instead a plate that looked like hers, it could have been a scenic plate or some such from another state or something and he saw another one from that state one day... In my state, we can pay extra to get certain plates instead of a standard one.

To me, finally, it still makes I guess the most sense he was stalking her though and that is why he knew the plate number. It sounds as if he was lying in wait so he knew where she lived as well and how to get there, he probably had been before.

P.S. I want to be clear that I am not saying that everyone who knows people's plates or can remember them is odd lol, I just do not think it is that common amongst people and in this case, I think it shows she was on his radar and probably had been for some time.

All just speculation and jmo

It's not noticing her plate, even if you can remember numbers, it's that you would mention it. It depends on the context of the conversation to determine if it's creepy. If he identified her car by her plate, and it wasn't special that seems like an odd way to identify people that you know. You did not want to follow the wrong car.

 

[zecats]

This is just a thought/speculation, but perhaps Carolyn’s car stood out to KS if it had PA tags?

I live in an NJ town (not far from Plainsboro) that’s literally on the banks of the Delaware River, and you’d be astounded by the number of my neighbors who have PA tags on their cars (I assume that’s because NJ rates for car insurance are MUCH higher than rates in PA).

Carolyn went to Lafayette College, where I was a visiting professor for several semesters, and which is located in a similar PA/NJ border town. IIRC, many of the upperclassmen there live in off-campus housing in Easton, PA, and have their own cars—so is it too far-fetched to imagine perhaps Carolyn’s car stood out in an NJ workplace parking lot because it still had the PA tags she might’ve had during her college days?

Or...could be that KS is a psychotic license-plate-number savant—both options seem equally plausible to me!

MOO

I doubt she even had a PA license plate at all. She is from NJ and lived here/grew up here and would have been able to keep a car with a NJ license plate in PA, not the other way around. Too much time in between as well, where registration renewal is required, insurance renewal as well and in NJ 60 days is the time you get if you are moving here and switching plates, etc.

NJ MVC | Moving To New Jersey

I live in NJ as well, close to DE and PA. You cannot even buy a car in one of those states without registering in in NJ.

A vanity plate might be more easily remembered. Or one that you can pay extra for to exhibit the Jersey Shore or the Pinelands (I have this one). Less numbers on those because of the design.

I agree that it's unusual. Even more so that he would mention it. IMO

 

[zecats]

It's not noticing her plate, even if you can remember numbers, it's that you would mention it. It depends on the context of the conversation to determine if it's creepy. If he identified her car by her plate, and it wasn't special that seems like an odd way to identify people that you know. You did not want to follow the wrong car.

I agree it is strange that he would talk about it. Just as strange as asking coworkers about the circumstantial evidence. He seems a bit paranoid in his apparent guilt. My thought is he was perhaps trying to claim he saw her alive, by saying he saw her specific car. JMO

 

[cherrymeg]

Holy smokes! That's true. We mysticize these murderers until they become something so menacing in our minds it becomes impossible to recognize them. I hadn't thought about that consequence too much.

I mean I know that I have certain biases about this coward due to what I think he did. Such as that she could never be attracted to him and that he is repulsive. (I still think both, BTW). But people who knew him day to day may not have realized what they were looking at. He may have seemed pleasant, even affable to many people.

A couple of things I see a lot that I'm not sure are so accurate are that every murderer has to be a psychopath and that psychopaths can't feel and never feel guilt. Someone just mentioned the latter earlier.

However I don't think all murderers are psychopaths. They could be a variety of things. (Also an interesting side note is somehing that one of our resident psychs said on the Chris Watts thread about how we can't always pigeon hole a perp into a specific diagnostic category because most people don't precisely fit. Those are typically diagnosed for billing purposes is I think how he or she explained it. And as a result it all seems much cleaner to us lay people than it actually is).

And if they can be a variety of things we can't expect them all to react the same way or be triggered by the same things. So I guess the example is some perps might be compelled to confess if LE appeals to their parenthood. Or their religious roots. Or discusses the victim's family or whatever. In the Delphi case it appears, for instance, that LE has profiled the perp and they make public religious statements that could be meant to affect the possible perp. Because they have a theory that the perp might be religious and swayed by that.

And while I can't say I know enough about psychopaths, you can see some weird things that point to vestiges of guilt or shake or whatever that we think they're not supposed to have.

And example I give is how a serial killer might confess to multiple murders but one - the only one in which he covered the victims' face- that one he won't confess to and he gets evasive or irate of you mention it. Why? Something about that kid that made the monster feel human for a moment?

Another example is they kill lots of people but then finally, they don't kill one. They can't do it.

It's a complexity of character that makes them true wolves in sheep's clothing.

BTK killer was described as a super good father by his daughter. They were close. And look who he turned out to be!

Killers are all different and they have their own impulses or fantasies. They are able to have family lives, hold down jobs, they don't seem dangerous to people around them every day. As you said they are wolves in sheeps clothing. They kill for different reasons and what keeps someone alive with one killer will have another killer dumping a corpse on the side of the road. Sometimes begging works sometimes being calm and getting a read on what the killer wants or needs from you might keep you alive. They aren't the same and it makes it harder to see them or catch them. The more we learn about killers and what drives them we might have a better understanding of how to survive or spot someone that is a threat. idk.
The serial killer Bobby Joe Long let Lisa McVey go and she helped catch him. I think some killers might see themselves in a victim or feel like they are understood so they have a connection.

I really have this deep dislike for BTK. I find him annoying on Mindhunter. In real life when they caught him he seemed like someone desperate to assert their control at the expense of others. Like a cop that abuses their power. Any authority would go to his head even customer service. Asking him for a refund or to explain why he is giving you a ticket would be like hitting a brick wall. If the only dad you've had is a serial killer, what is normal for his kids? MOO

 

[cherrymeg]

I guess I somehow missed the weapons charge - news to me! What is the charge?

NJ man charged in slaying of co-worker killed during lunch break will remain jailed

9/3/19

Byington was found dead June 10 in her Plainsboro apartment. Authorities have said she suffered multiple stab wounds and blunt force trauma.

Police went there after her colleagues at a marketing firm in Princeton became concerned when she didn’t return to work after lunch.

Saal’s attorney, Michael Roberts, said his client, who also faces a weapons charge, maintains his innocence. bbm

Did they name the weapons?

 

[gitana1]

Thank you reallyplainsboro. This is what I thought right away. New dad, doesn't respect authority, now has home responsibilities, beautiful girl at work. Infatuated full of rage. Known manipulator and liar.

Yup. That's what I thought too. Now I can add and maybe had had fantasies of rape and murder for awhile.

 

[gitana1]

This bothers me. He didn't refuse to give any info. His interview was shifty and he did self sooth, stroking his thumb when Carolyn's name came up but I did appear all his scratches were gone. With such a serious crime don't you think there would still be wounds, healing or swelling?
Who leaked he hired a lawyer? Is that illegal or grounds to make you a lead suspect? Constitionally it is not.

The constitution has nothing to do with whether someone becomes a suspect or not. That has to do with human behavior. So yeah, hiring a lawyer under such circumstances can perk up an investigator's ears.

 

[MissyMom]

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[MissyMom]

Carolyn’s car had Jersey plates and did not have a vanity plate. Here is one of the original news stories and it shows Carolyn’s car sitting in the apartment complex parking lot. Plainsboro police seek suspect in slaying of 26-year-old woman inside home

Also, it would not be unusual for several cars in her work parking lot to have PA plates. Many people who live in PA commute to NJ for work.[/QUOTE]

 

[zecats]

Carolyn’s car had Jersey plates and did not have a vanity plate. Here is one of the original news stories and it shows Carolyn’s car sitting in the apartment complex parking lot. Plainsboro police seek suspect in slaying of 26-year-old woman inside home

Also, it would not be unusual for several cars in her work parking lot to have PA plates. Many people who live in PA commute to NJ for work.

[/QUOTE]
Good points. And good find. Now that can be put to rest. Obviously, for some reason, he had her license plate number in his brain.

 

[zecats]

Did they name the weapons?

I can only assume it was a knife of some sort.

Plainsboro murder: Man accused of woman's stabbing death ordered to remain in jail

"Saal was arrested last week and charged with the murder of co-worker Carolyn Byington and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose."

Possible the man carried a pen knife around with him? Or a Swiss army knife? I have a small one (wouldn't be able to hurt anyone with it, nor would I ever). The wording of possession of unlawful purpose makes me think he may have had it on him and because he used it to stab her, it became a charge. JMO

 

[cherrymeg]

I can only assume it was a knife of some sort.

Plainsboro murder: Man accused of woman's stabbing death ordered to remain in jail

"Saal was arrested last week and charged with the murder of co-worker Carolyn Byington and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose."

Possible the man carried a pen knife around with him? Or a Swiss army knife? I have a small one (wouldn't be able to hurt anyone with it, nor would I ever). The wording of possession of unlawful purpose makes me think he may have had it on him and because he used it to stab her, it became a charge. JMO

I wasn't sure if I missed a gun charge. That makes sense.

 

[borndem]

This is so creepy. The idea that a freak coworker might have followed Carolyn home that day is just so scary to think about. Who would ever expect that?

Good point -- further, in this situation, she was perhaps notified to go to her apt that day -- that's how it seems to us -- something took her out of her workday pattern. If this is so, she probably would have been in a bit of a rush to get there, tend to whatever it was as quickly as possible, and get back to work. If this is true, I'm thinking she would not notice if she was being followed, thereby not putting herself on guard, etc. Who of us would notice that we were being followed unless other weird things were happening, or had happened recently? Not I, and I am a pretty cautious person.

 

[cherrymeg]

Good point -- further, in this situation, she was perhaps notified to go to her apt that day -- that's how it seems to us -- something took her out of her workday pattern. If this is so, she probably would have been in a bit of a rush to get there, tend to whatever it was as quickly as possible, and get back to work. If this is true, I'm thinking she would not notice if she was being followed, thereby not putting herself on guard, etc. Who of us would notice that we were being followed unless other weird things were happening, or had happened recently? Not I, and I am a pretty cautious person.

I've almost gone into the wrong grey car when someone was picking me up or waiting for me. I wouldn't notice who was behind me. I will notice if you try running me off the road. I used to use my review mirror to do my makeup so even high beams where wasted on me lol. When someone was watching me I had a weird feeling which I told myself was crazy only to find out that shivery uncomfortable sense wasn't wrong. Driving made me feed safe and in control. It's usually getting from the car to you apt, work or vice versa that you are on the lookout for dangers and usually they would come in the form of a friendly coworker mid-day.

 

[borndem]

I can understand why he would lie to his boss about a job interview, but if you were being questioned by the police about a murder, I think most people would tell the police I was on a job interview. Saal would not tell or account for his whereabouts when questioned by the police.

A job interview would be easy to verify IF LE knew what company/person to contact. I don't know what LE does if the employee refuses to name the prospective company/interviewer, or it there turns out to be no such company -- I guess they would say that they will not accept that alibi unless it can be verified. LE has heard it all, I'm sure, so they probably could pull one over on him if he was/became evasive or uncooperative. I would tell them I was just riding around, looking for somewhere to eat and somewhere to buy a new toy for the baby ("Oh, what I nice daddy -- how sweet he is to do that.") Something "un-verifiable."

 

[gitana1]

I could see "car trouble nearby" as a great excuse (all things considered) for getting into a co-worker's apartment, but I still wonder what brought her home, how he knew she'd be home, how he'd explain to her how he knew where she lived, why he couldn't use his cell phone, etc.

What's so sad and scary is despite the red flags, how many of us would say no to someone we'd worked with for three years if they showed up on our doorstep (provided we'd never had a weird vibe from them before). When put on the spot, it would be so awkward. However, if I looked through the keyhole and had a few seconds to ponder all of the red flags, I might either pretend I wasn't there or talk through the door saying, "oh hey there co-worker! Sorry, I'm changing clothes" or "I'm feeling sick," or "I have company. Can I help you?" Then I'd see what he had to say. I'd offer to call for help for him through the door and if he had me worried I'd offer to call the police to help him!

Women are so programmed to be polite and nice to everyone, and predators can easily take advantage of that.

See I think 5 miles from her home is pretty close. Also, I get the sense from reports that she didn't let him in. Either he was already in or he forced his way in when she entered.

 

[gitana1]

You are correct about women programmed to be polite. We also have to learn to trust our gut instincts. I learned this the hard way after I was held up at gun point many years ago. I pulled into my parking lot and saw this guy walking by. Immediately, I said to myself he didn’t belong there, but I talked myself out of my gut instincts and got out of the car. Next thing I knew he had a gun in my face. Women have to trust their gut instincts. Nine times out of 10 it’s correct.

Wow!! You're right. But we are always told we're overreacting. So it's easy to ignore that gut.

I'm glad you made it out alive.

 

[Seattle1]

New Jersey Law – Weapon Possessed for Unlawful Purpose
In accordance with N.J.S.A. 2C:39-4(d), “any person who has in his possession any weapon, except a firearm, explosive or destructive device, with a purpose to use it unlawfully against the person or property of another is guilty of a crime of the third degree.” The material elements that must be established by a prosecutor in order to obtain a conviction are: (1) possession of a “weapon;” (2) purpose to use the item against person or property of another; and (3) the intended use is unlawful.

“Weapon” Requirement
N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1 sets forth those items which are considered weapons under NJ law. The definition includes not only firearms but any item “capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury.” Specific items in the statute include knives, metal knuckles, slingshots and razor blades—although virtually any object could constitute a “weapon” if capable of inflicting harm.

What is an Unlawful Purpose under N.J.S.A. 2C:39-4(d)?
An individual’s possession of a weapon is with a “purpose to use it unlawfully” where there is a specific intent to use it to commit an illegal act. Accordingly, where someone possesses a “weapon” for honest self-protection, there is no object to commit an illegal act and, hence, no unlawful purpose.

[...]

Penalties & Punishment for Possessing a Weapon with Unlawful Purpose
An unlawful purpose offense results in a second degree crime where the weapon is a firearm, explosive or destructive device. Possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose is a third degree crime where something other than a firearm is the instrumentality. It is a fourth degree crime to possess an imitation firearm for the purpose to use it unlawfully against another person or property.

[...]

It is extremely important to keep in mind that an unlawful purpose offense is an entirely separate crime from unlawful possession of a weapon, possession of an illegal weapon or any other violation arising out of an event such as a robbery or aggravated assault.

New Jersey Possession of Weapons for Unlawful Purposes

 

[gitana1]

Following a slew of detailed allegations, judge keeps accused lunch break killer in jail

Saal left work at 12:47p which would get him to Hunters Glen @1p when screams were heard by Carolyn’s neighbors. Police pegged his car in the vicinity of Hunters Glen @ 2:04p and also cellphone pings put him in that area at that time. That would give him @ 40 minutes to get back to work for meeting with boss. He may have been able to drive down Canal Pointe Blvd & back to work but not much time for fixing a car.

Do we have a map in this case? Their job, her house, his house, Hunter's Glen in general, the place he claims he worked on his car at, etc.?