AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #2

[Sillybilly]

In the previous thread I posted a reminder not to make insinuations or inferences against "the guy in the store". Some members have either overlooked that reminder or are choosing to ignore it for some reason. That individual has not been named by LE to be either a POI or suspect and is therefore considered an innocent bystander at this time.

Numerous posts casting aspersions against the above individual have been removed. If members continue to suggest his involvement, there will be a loss of posting privileges.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Sounds like they did a massive search and found nothing. So why would they continue looking, especially considering the theory is that a man in a van took her?

Well that's why I'm asking. Over here in the Uk searches continue for days if there's any uncertainty at all. I am wondering how strong the lead is re the abduction.

ETA - it would need to be stronger than theory for local searches to be stood down here, guessing the same principles apply.

 

[katydid23]

I'm wondering the same thing about the witness. All I could find was that "a witness" described the suspect. The description seems so detailed, with specific information about facial skin. How would someone know that without having a conversation with, or being within a few feet of, the suspect?

Do most young Hispanic men in the area dress like that? I would think that what he was wearing together with his red van would trigger a lot of tips, yet he has not been located. Does the suspect not have friends in the area who would immediately know him based on that description?

She was abducted within 3 minutes of arriving at the park.

"They were out of sight for less than three minutes when Manuel ran back, crying and pointing to a spot near park buildings, she said." (link)
​

That suggests that the suspect was at the swings waiting at the park for an unaccompanied child to arrive. The children ran to the playground, he immediately took Dulce and left, and the 3 year old child ran straight back to the car.

View attachment 205769

I am not sure that I trust that three minute estimate, the mother made.

How long would it take 2 young kids, eating ice cream, to even make it to the swings? They look pretty far away.

And then the 3 yr old has to make the return trip. All that, by itself, could take more than 3 minutes.

I saw another article that said 10 minutes. That seems like a more accurate estimate. JMO

 

[Raptors001]

Is it common / usual to say “threw it on the floor” when something was actually thrown on the ground? I consider the floor to be indoors and the ground to be outside. Do some use those interchangeably. Is it regional? I live on the west coast and have never heard anyone call the ground the floor.

Is there any chance Dulce and her brother were inside the building with the perp at any time? Maybe it was locked, undisturbed, and his ice cream was on the ground behind the building and that is how they knew he was pointing behind and not in?

One thing that I noticed is that mama describes that he was crying because someone threw his ice cream, but she doesn’t say he said that. She says he pointed behind the building but doesn’t say he said Dulce went behind the building. Her not saying “he said...” doesn’t mean he didn’t say those things, of course. I guess I’m just hopeful and wonder how well he is able to communicate and what kind of info he was able to share. I hope he was able to give some sort of info even if it was just “go” and “man”. Something, anything, to verify that she left with a man. Aside from the witnesses who may or may not have seen Dulce and a man (vs some other little girl with her dad), what is to say she didn’t just wander off and get lost in the park?

They only found one ice cream ? Did the dulce have a ice cream ? It was taken with her ?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

They only found one ice cream ? Did the dulce have a ice cream ? It was taken with her ?

Excellent point

 

[MsMarple]

You know, honestly, these two children were alone on the playground. Unless someone noticed them run from Mom's car in the parking lot, who would really know for sure the suspect was doing anything wrong. He's an adult, Dulce seemingly went compliantly, and he placed her in the back seat like he should (though a 5 year old is supposed to be in a carseat) and drove off. No one realized anything was out of the ordinary until later.

Also, he may have been parked along Burt St, closer to the trees in view of the basketball court. No one has said the van was parked directly behind the buildings. It would be visible from there. JMO

Yeah, you make a good point. I just found it kind of surprising that he decided to take Dulce while potential witnesses were around.

I was going on Dulce's mom's interview where she said her son "just pointed behind the buildings." She didn't see the van herself so it must have been gone by then which is really fast IMO.

To be clear, I'm not saying anything about the mother, I'm trying to figure out how the witnesses were able to see the man put Dulce in the back seat. So yes, he might have been parked in sight of the people. If the son pointed to behind the buildings then he probably meant where the man actually walked off with Dulce. Without a street view option on Google Maps it's hard to imagine where everyone was.

BTW, I think someone asked earlier if they had left to get ice cream from school. Dulce's mother said they left from home.

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[Angleterre]

They only found one ice cream ? Did the dulce have a ice cream ? It was taken with her ?

Excellent observation
And you are spot on - mmmm..... interesting

 

[momrids6]

I was wondering if someone knocked her brother's ice cream to the floor as a means to distract him so Dulce could be taken away? He looks at his ice cream, freaks out about that and when he looks up, she's on her way away with someone? Or... someone knocked it to the ground and then told Dulce to follow them to get her brother a new one?

This ice cream had to be pretty melty by this point. Maybe it just fell

 

[Ashley74]

"Updates from authorities were scant over the weekend, and there was no apparent physical search underway in the park following a massive aerial and ground search on Friday.

Noema Alavez Perez, 19, said she’s closely monitoring every social media tip as authorities continue investigating her daughter’s disappearance.

“She was sweet,” Alavez Perez said in a phone call Sunday. “She was nice, caring.”

Emptiness sets in for Dulce’s family as Amber Alert search for lost 5-year-old continues

ughh past tense Let’s hope she can still be nice, caring and sweet. poor baby girl where are you??

 

[Beekarina]

@sillybilly noted! I missed that entirely. Thank you for the reminder

 

[katydid23]

Hmmmm. If the witness wasn't real close how could they see the acne?????? Give such a vivid discription??????

I'm thinking the witness might have been out near the van in the parking lot, when he saw the suspect and the girl. At the time, he wouldn't have thought it was a kidnapping. Just someone leaving the park with their kid/niece/sister.

 

[Rosiebones]

I have been looking back over MSM reporting of the eyewitness account of putting DMA in the van and driving off but I cannot find any indication that it was in the park and drove out of the park.
There has been a lot of speculation etc. as to where it may have been parked but no one saw it behind the building or saw it drive away.
LE did not report out that the eyewitness told them where it went after the guy got in the driver's seat just that he drove away.. That's strange.

I think it was parked outside the park and the eyewitness/camera picked up the man and DMA outside the park, over the footbridge to the east or from the southern most part of the park into the residential area on a side street to the west.
MOO MOO MOO

 

[bykerladi]

IIRC the information about the van and the man with acne came AFTER LE interviewed witnesses several times. Makes me wonder if the red van is a red herring.

I don't think Dulce's mom is involved, but I can't help but think she's not telling the whole story, maybe because her judgment wasn't really the greatest.

 

[katydid23]

Hmmm... I wonder if the school verified their attendance that day? Maybe they didn’t go because of whatever reason. What time does school dismiss there? Here it is 4:00 pm, but I know that isn’t common.

The girls could have changed quickly, without going home. I used to change my young kids in the car after school some days. They had sports uniforms or dance clothes to change into and we would sometimes do it on the road, between stops.

 

[MsMarple]

The girls could have changed quickly, without going home. I used to change my young kids in the car after school some days. They had sports uniforms or dance clothes to change into and we would sometimes do it on the road, between stops.

In the video I posted upthread Dulce's mom said they left for ice cream from home.

 

[MJPeony]

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Reposting this helpful video posted by @MsMarple.

Per Noema, the mother, they left from their home to go to the park. And she says she did ask others at the park if they’d seen her daughter.

 

[Yvettea]

In the video I posted upthread Dulce's mom said they left for ice cream from home.

But they took the 8-yr-old’s homework with them to the park instead of finishing it at home. And that left Dulce without supervision on the playground.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I am very touched by the caring remarks of the community, and how they are showing up to help. They know could have just as easily been their own child, and that there is a predator amongst them. Hopefully LE is taking a close look at who is showing up for searches and vigils....we know how these Perps get a thrill being in the midst of all that.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[zecats]

Yeah, you make a good point. I just found it kind of surprising that he decided to take Dulce while potential witnesses were around.

I was going on Dulce's mom's interview where she said her son "just pointed behind the buildings." She didn't see the van herself so it must have been gone by then which is really fast IMO.

To be clear, I'm not saying anything about the mother, I'm trying to figure out how the witnesses were able to see the man put Dulce in the back seat. So yes, he might have been parked in sight of the people. If the son pointed to behind the buildings then he probably meant where the man actually walked off with Dulce. Without a street view option on Google Maps it's hard to imagine where everyone was.

BTW, I think someone asked earlier if they had left to get ice cream from school. Dulce's mother said they left from home.

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Thanks for that clarification.. I figured they must have gone home first - either on the bus or by being picked up at school. Kids don't normally change clothes at school, so had to go home to change.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I hope that LE that are trained to do so, are working with the little three year old. Every child is different, and sometimes they can be quite amazing in what they are able to relay. The fact the little one was crying and had dropped his ice cream suggests a struggle to me.
I think the mother and LE should take the child to the park to play a game. The "where's Dulce" game, and see what happens. I would also show him mug shots and ask - which man took Dulce? This man...this man,..this man,...? Not foolproof or iron clad, but I'd give it a go.

Amateur opinion and speculation