AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #5

[Kuyluc2764]

So. Authorities have said NO ONE has been ruled out.

They have also reportedly found, and spoken with, everyone in the video from the Sunoco. We are not allowed to discuss the video.

Does this hold true given the new information and sketch?

Just out of curiosity, why can't we discuss the video?

 

[zecats]

Just out of curiosity, why can't we discuss the video?

People in the video, who were there as customers in the store, were not connected to this case by LE or MSM. The people (one man specifically) were not named POI's therefore discussion about them (him) being suspicious is against TOS. Also there were red vehicles seen passing by outside. The cars were not linked to any suspect so again, off topic.

If you're unsure of what is and isn't permitted, there is a link to TOS on the home page here. Let me know if you need help finding it.

 

[Kuyluc2764]

People in the video, who were there as customers in the store, were not connected to this case by LE or MSM. The people (one man specifically) were not named POI's therefore discussion about them (him) being suspicious is against TOS. Also there were red vehicles seen passing by outside. The cars were not linked to any suspect so again, off topic.

If you're unsure of what is and isn't permitted, there is a link to TOS on the home page here. Let me know if you need help finding it.

Thanks @zecats but no, I do not need help finding the rules. The person said that we could not discuss the video, they did not specify that we could not discuss the random people in the video, which I know already. I have seen the video being discussed back a dozen pages or so but that was all in relation to Dulce and her mother and the ice cream she got. So I thought maybe I had missed something. Thanks for clarifying though.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, exactly. In which case it's pretty obvious why he wouldn't want to come forward.

Or he may be involved. That would be another reason.

Imo

 

[afitzy]

IMO No one saw a thing. One of the rarest stranger abductions. She literally vanished into thin air. Then they botched the investigation by focusing on mom for way too long. I'm sure them being poor, having broken English and being Mexican played a part in it too. They just didn't take them seriously.

Even here, at the beginning, I remember people speculating on cartel involvement or gang affiliation. Why? Because she's Mexican? I haven't been on this board that long (only found it when Dulce vanished) but is the norm to think a gang took a kid or a cartel was involved?

I'm not sure that the case wasn't taken seriously as the FBI seemed to be brought in quickly and on many cases on WS people scream for attention on missing cases or FBI involvement and Dulce did get a good amount of visibility quickly IMO.

Now that we know more details about the lack of eyewitness accounts, it even makes more sense that the Amber Alert was delayed too. As you said, we seem to have a case with a 5 yo that vanished into thin air. I don't believe this as I believe there is someone in the community that knows something but for whatever reason they will not speak.

This case is IMO somewhat unusual for WS in that Bridgeton is a largely latino area and a lot of the usual sleuthing couldn't be done without language skills and even with language skills it was challenging IMO. I spent hours on social media reading trying to understand what locals were saying and I'm sure LE did the same. But putting the latino issue aside, whenever a missing case happens it is typical to try to understand the town/city and dynamics of the situation and so what you saw play out here wasn't that different other than it took longer to understand the area due to lack of locals in the early days of the case I think.

I think before you @JerzeyGirl and some other locals including @PunkCake came on to the thread that people were struggling to understand why this Dulce case was different. The Dulce case was IMO different not only because of her age/5 but because of the dynamics of her family (large extended family going from US to Mexico) and the bigger issues in Bridgeton which make solving this crime so very challenging. We also had no eyewitness account of a perp and allegedly zero CCTV that was useful to LE.

I think the reason the gangs were investigated or discussed was that in areas with gangs and organised crime groups, its pretty typical that these groups know what is happening on the streets and they have a good idea of who all is around in terms of criminals etc. In some cities, LE is able to work with gangs to solve some street level crime, in particular murders of children or violence against children. In many places with gangs, there is no way local folks would speak to LE too. Gangs via connections with cartels increasingly are getting involved with human trafficking and this does include small children but the Dulce case is odd though because I think most of the stats of trafficked children have them being closer to 8-10 yo.

Think about the complexity of Dulces extended family. Mom is 19, has 2 children with 2 different fathers and neither father seems to be in the picture. BUT, one of the fathers (Dulce's) seems to have the same last name as Grandma and Grandma seemed to be in touch with the father (but are they related? We don't know. We also don't know father of 3 yo son and this persons relation to the family).

So, just with 2 children you now have 2 dads and all of their respective families to check out and many of the family members might be in Mexico too. We also have Mom current BF who was picked up and held by ICE, non documented and uncertain work history. This whole ICE situation sent a chill into the community. We then had the politics of the AG comments about non documented people further inflaming the situation IMO and later the Gov. weighing in adding more confusion and so a political mess that looked bad to the locals became even more uncertain. We then had the local jails releasing non document serious criminals into the general population and ICE had to issue a most wanted list and try to track down these dangerous people. A couple of these ICE releases did impact the Bridgeton area.

The rumours on social media didn't help much either and it was clear that the local people were scared and didn't know what to do, so, it seemed like they mainly kept their mouths shut. LE had a nearly impossible task IMO to get the community to help so far as I could tell but again as an outsider who truly knows.

We have Mom with 2 children, five months pregnant, living apart from her family and her children, no Mom school since age 14, no Mom work or means to support herself or her children. Mom was sitting in car between 30-50 yards from playground and saw nothing of what happened to Dulce. 3 yo brother who was on the scene is non verbal. Mom called brother to look for her daughter and didn't immediately call 911. 911 call seemed largely botched IMO so conflicting information made it out to LE at a time when it might have made a difference. By the time LE came and searched, perp and Dulce could have been 30-40 miles away from Bridgeton. 20+ people playing basketball adjacent to the play area seemed to see nothing of value. An unknown number of people might have seen something but 'melted away' and didn't contact LE. This no doubt was a very difficult puzzle for LE to put together and I'm not at all sure they managed to crack it.

The cartels were brought up if I recall because of their known ties to human trafficking, including sale of minor children into slavery. One of the other paths the thread went down was child abduction for and also for harvesting body parts.

These cases usually get solved by tips and someone from the community that knows something. I'm not sure if LE knew how to access the community or why some community leader or priest that was tied into the community didn't come forward to help? Maybe these community types have been working behind the scenes with LE. IDK but we didn't see any of them come forward as we have seen in other cases.

I'm grasping at straws and thinking of other cases and how they were solved to see what else could have been done that wasn't done by LE and FBI. If the community of Bridgeton were too scared of coming forward and there was no valid eyewitness account of the abduction and CCTV didn't provide any substantive leads then the case goes cold.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

I still can’t figure how to link a page here but this is from the Cumberland Co prosecutors. I’m intrigued by the word choice of describing an “initial” sketch when these are 2 separate men we are looking for.

I haven't had a chance to look to see if this social media post was also made in Spanish.

The Spanish language stations have IMO been working hard to cover this case and that has helped a great deal. But to see LE continuing to not issue statements in both english/spanish in a community that is largely latino is hugely disappointing.

We also didn't see the major press outlets, even online, making much effort to engage with non english speakers which I thought was a huge missed opportunity as people were looking for news on poor Dulce. Even running a banner under their newscasts in Spanish would have been a huge step forward to possibly engage with the latino community but I didn't see one of the major stations do anything in spanish which was disappointing.

MOO

 

[peppertheyorkiepoo]

Sketch of possible suspect.

 

[Trackergd]

Still keeping an eye on this and waiting for developments.

 

[JC40]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Listen to the Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Episode - WHERE IS DULCE ALAVEZ? Family releases new video of the missing 5 year-old as police work to pin down a suspect. on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio

 

[jjenny]

I presume that is the sketch of the Hispanic male with two kids that was mentioned in 911 call. Prosecutor is not calling him a suspect or even a person of interest. Right now he is being called a witness.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Authorities released the sketch after a witness claimed to have spotted the man in the park at the same time as the missing child.

The man in the sketch was reportedly seen with at least one child under the age of 5 when Dulce went missing.

The sketch shows the suspects as wearing a white T-shirt, blue jeans and a white baseball cap and he is described as Hispanic.

He is believed to be between 30 and 35 years old, approximately 5 feet 7 inches with a slender build, officials say.

“We are asking this person (or anyone who may recognize him) to come forward as investigators wish to speak with him as it is believed that he may have information that is helpful in determining the circumstances that led to Dulce’s disappearance,” the Cumberland County Prosecutor’s Office said in a news release.
Sketch released of possible suspect connected to missing 5-year-old NJ girl

Composite sketch of an individual who has been reported to have been seen in the park
Authorities release sketch of 'possible witness' in case of missing 5-year-old

 

[peppertheyorkiepoo]

Just wondering out loud this morning. Does the city have any web cams? High schools, highways airports, any weather cams? We have them at a park on the river, a college and the airport. You cam watch live, but not sure if they record.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

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[imstilla.grandma]

I sure do wish I knew this language.

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[SuziQ]

Most hard hats offer chin straps than can be attached— osha. There was construction going on. Football helmets. Maybe motorcycle helmets too, will have to look that up.

I was married to a welder. I have never seen a welder helmut with a chin strap.

 

[ProtectChildren]

Just wondering out loud this morning. Does the city have any web cams? High schools, highways airports, any weather cams? We have them at a park on the river, a college and the airport. You cam watch live, but not sure if they record.

I would imagine there are tons of surveillance cameras at the schools, outside of businesses, outside of the government buildings like the courthouse and jail and prison, and at lots of stop lights, and personal residences along the way. I don't know of any public access cameras for weather or traffic in Bridgeton.

There's a camera on RT 55 South just North of a Bridgeton exit. From my understanding it is not a public accessed view. I have not noticed a North Bound camera in the area which would most likely be the direction someone would go.

I feel certain Delaware Memorial Bridge, Walt Whitman Bridge, Ben Franklin Bridge, Commodore Barry Bridge, and Betsy Ross Bridge, Tacony-Palmyra Bridge, all the South Jersey Bridges have multiple cameras since I am pretty sure they are all toll bridges and have Easy Pass cameras.

The only way out of NJ if you go more South of Bridgeton is by boat which I imagine is also very videoed on the Cape May -Lewes Ferry, not an ideal get away.

Makes me think they'd still be in the area because of so many highway cameras. After 911 they really popped up in the area and you got the sense all of NJ is under surveillance at least on all the major roads, 95, Turnpike, 295 and North Jersey outside of NY City of course.
My opinion only.

 

[MsBetsy]

I presume that is the sketch of the Hispanic male with two kids that was mentioned in 911 call. Prosecutor is not calling him a suspect or even a person of interest. Right now he is being called a witness.

Yes, that's what they said in the beginning about the man who put Dulce in the car. They said they wanted to talk to him because he may have important information.

He may just be a witness, but why didn't he come forward after an entire month?
LE must believe he is connected. He is important enough to them to create sketch of him.

He must know he was there when Dulce disappeared, it's been all over the news. He doesn't need to see a sketch of himself to remember he was there.

Hopefully someone close to him or anybody who has seen him will come forward.

Imo

 

[wannabeinvestigator]

i live 2 minutes from where she was abducted, theres local private groups that give a lot more information, i have insider police information i wish i could share but due to the investigation it could ruin everything however when the truth comes out i promise you will all be more upset than you think , theyre only waiting on someone i will not name in case i could get banned for saying it to crack, everything everyone is saying in terms of it not making sense, the police also agree just know that i was even in the search party, any leads that were given were followed, guy in the surveillance wasnt involved, theres no cameras anywhere you can even look it up online so that's why no camera footage has been found, its a small town but it's bad here, its never been safe and i dont want to shame anyone but trust me when i say this general statement, if you let your children go off alone here 1. you're in knowledge of the possibilities of what could happen 2. a lot of others do it, theres constantly 3 year olds walking home for blocks every single day, even today nothing has changed, but none of them have been targeted so the main question you should ask yourself to possibly put the pieces together is why her ? also why not both of them, i wish i could go into detail more but im going to leave it as this (MOO)

 

[afitzy]

I was married to a welder. I have never seen a welder helmut with a chin strap.

Yes, doesn't the welder hat attach on the top of the head so that the front portion just flips down over the welders face?

 

[wannabeinvestigator]

I would imagine there are tons of surveillance cameras at the schools, outside of businesses, outside of the government buildings like the courthouse and jail and prison, and at lots of stop lights, and personal residences along the way. I don't know of any public access cameras for weather or traffic in Bridgeton.

There's a camera on RT 55 South just North of a Bridgeton exit. From my understanding it is not a public accessed view. I have not noticed a North Bound camera in the area which would most likely be the direction someone would go.

I feel certain Delaware Memorial Bridge, Walt Whitman Bridge, Ben Franklin Bridge, Commodore Barry Bridge, and Betsy Ross Bridge, Tacony-Palmyra Bridge, all the South Jersey Bridges have multiple cameras since I am pretty sure they are all toll bridges and have Easy Pass cameras.

The only way out of NJ if you go more South of Bridgeton is by boat which I imagine is also very videoed on the Cape May -Lewes Ferry, not an ideal get away.

Makes me think they'd still be in the area because of so many highway cameras. After 911 they really popped up in the area and you got the sense all of NJ is under surveillance at least on all the major roads, 95, Turnpike, 295 and North Jersey outside of NY City of course.
My opinion only.

i dont agree! i live here, check this out, 511nj.org go down to the maps part, it shows all cameras private or not i believe, this person was smart, they wouldn't go a way with heavy surveillance cameras via buildings, plenty of back ways and plenty of other routes to go besides bridges to sneak her out, even having her laying down and covered in the back if he had gone through cameras

I also think he actually took her on a canoe down the river a ways thats why there's no scent past the water, they haven't mentioned this publicly but in front of my house is a lake, on the other side of that lake they found an abandoned truck/van with Virginia tags and said it was from a person of interest, it was not red like they claimed, not a single camera back there, i think she was swapped out car wise there, ironically the lake back there and the river they searched are very close to each other but dont touch at one point, it would only have to be a walk across the st down the rd from where the dogs sniffed (MOO)