GUILTY NJ - Four dead in New Year's shooting, Long Branch, 31 Dec 2017 *Arrest*

[CARIIS]

moo

attempting to locate any possible redeeming value to have our younger generation spending hours at a time murdering people fo points and winning



I come up blank

Maybe winning in debate club might be helpful!!!!

A quick review of our crime numbers can be helpful here imo

its mind boggling

 

[rsd1200]

I get it but I don't think he should be tried as an adult in this case, he has a developmental disability. He may be 16, but probably socially the mind of an 8 yo. Speaking as the parent of a high functioning child with autism. My son hasn't killed anyone but he has severe impulse control and has hit us - even once I had to call the police to the house. Even the police realized he was "special", talked him down but the police didn't want to take him into custody- and I wouldn't have wanted that either, but I was alone and needed help.

I understand. Mine has mild Tourette's, with impulse control issues. He's always been immature too, (still is immature, but better), however, he is smart.

I would hope that they would do a full evaluation of this young man's abilities, and maturity level, prior to deciding whether to charge him as an adult. There's just so many kids with some tough diags out there. I think this is the third one of these type of murders, that I've read about in the past week, and no telling how many that didn't make it to leading news.

 

[CARIIS]

Video games?

Every 16 yr old boy I know can shoot and aim quite well, after practicing for years online.

I am not so sure that is skill that useable in most daily life!!

 

[Oregonsleuther]

@beandawgs and cariis, i completely agree with your posts. this does mimic what i've seen in (non-asperger's) many special needs teens over the years. and again, no gun control position here, i don't really care. IMO autism turns into schizophrenia in many a male teenage case. regardless of demographics (social status, parental income, etc). i do have to fault and hold the parents responsible for not recognizing the signs nor symptoms, and if they do see it, don't act. nancy lanza. classic case of denial.

@jennifer17, you have yourself a very rare and amazing case with your granddaughter. kudos and mazel tov. but this is apples vs oranges. autism as you know has many different faces. each child is a completely separate entity.

I appreciate your posts. Do parents of autistic boys know it's common that autism turns into schizophrenia for boys? Are they made aware of symptoms? What signs/symptoms are you faulting the parents for not recognizing?

 

[rsd1200]

They certainly seem to have had plenty of financial troubles. And financial troubles commonly do cause depression.

The really odd thing about her Twitter, though, is that it's almost exclusively a one-sided conversation with the foo fighters for something like two years straight, IIRC. It's pretty strange to reveal that much personal, emotional information in that way through Twitter. I've actually never seen anything like it before.

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I found that odd too. I think you have been on the Rhoden case haven't you? I was reminded a bit of DR and her almost daily visit to her deceased, friend's FB Memorial Page.

This Mom had an interesting tweet about the first 20 years of her life being unspeakably horrible. If so, that could also fuel bouts of depression. I'm not sure about this kid, but my son's fiance, has a sister, who is a little lower functioning, and she will have meltdowns if her CDs get out of order. Maybe Mom had a particularly bad bout of depression, and the dynamics in the home changed, and it may have been a trigger. Just thinking.

 

[Jennifer17]

I found that odd too. I think you have been on the Rhoden case haven't you? I was reminded a bit of DR and her almost daily visit to her deceased, friend's FB Memorial Page.

This Mom had an interesting tweet about the first 20 years of her life being unspeakably horrible. If so, that could also fuel bouts of depression. I'm not sure about this kid, but my son's fiance, has a sister, who is a little lower functioning, and she will have meltdowns if her CDs get out of order. Maybe Mom had a particularly bad bout of depression, and the dynamics in the home changed, and it may have been a trigger. Just thinking.

BBM. A trigger for what? She is a victim of this shooting. Are you saying that she brought on her own death because she was depressed?

 

[rsd1200]

Twitter holds more of a sense of anonymity so it makes sense as to why one would be more willing to share the hard stuff when they don't personally know the people who follow them. It's weird how it works, the refusal to share the most intimate facts about yourself with those who you know, but the ability to do so to complete strangers.

Kind of like an electronic therapist, who doesn't speak back? The photo of her with the lotto cards seems to have an aura of sadness around it but that's just my take. Lots of horse racing photos too. I wonder if there might have been a gambling problem? Oddly enough, folks with financial troubles will try their hand at gambling sometimes (or they've already taken to it and just continue to dig deeper). When they win they're up and when they lose, especially a lot, they can become suicidal.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM. A trigger for what? She is a victim of this shooting. Are you saying that she brought on her own death because she was depressed?

No. I'm saying the dynamics in the home may have changed due to the mother suffering from an illness of her own . A change and it could have caused him to become unable to handle things. When my son's, gf's, mother became gravely ill, and had to be in the hospital, her autistic daughter did not handle the change well (neither did my son for that matter b/c he is close to her and the bottom dropped out on him too), Everything was out of order. While they scrambled to get Mom to a hospital they were at the same time having to think how to best approach the daughter. Mom had been in the hospital before, change in dynamics in the home, and daughter did not handle it well. They knew this, this time, and started having to prep for a change for the daughter as they wondered if Mom would live. When I would get sick, when my son was younger, it would throw the routine off. Sameness was important.

My point is, the dynamics could have changed and he couldn't handle it.

 

[Vail]

Many of you are (lovingly) trying to reason this out but the fact is, if he is autistic or schizophrenic it could have been something as simple as his mom taking the kitten away from him, or his sister saying something rude, or not being able to play a video game he is obsessed with because company is over. There is not likely any rational motive. The gun should have been locked in a case, but it wasn't and now here we are. It is sad all around and I personally do not think he should be charged as an adult or put into the prison system based on what we know so far. Hopefully more will come out in the coming days to clarify what happened and why.

 

[bears10]

The more I read of her Twitter... She was suicidal at one point.

https://twitter.com/LindaKologi/status/776961594668429312

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Linda Kologi
@LindaKologi
·
Aug 25, 2016
@foofighters ps its my dead mothers bday and i got a bill for $312000 for my house&your music keeps me from cashing in on my 500000 life ins


So sad. I wonder if there is going to be more to this story.


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[borndem]

Wouldn't they have to have a competency hearing? It has been said he was a functioning autistic. Unless he was non verbal and incapable of knowing the result of shooting a gun at people, I don't think that he would be deemed incompetent to stand trial. Most autistic people are not violent.

With all the references to autism, I now wonder how all this is affecting him (the alleged shooter). Does he know what he did? Does he understand that he is in Big Trouble? Is he sad and worried that he doesn't have his parents nor his sister any more? Will he have empathy for his remaining family member? Does he regret what he has done? How is he acting in custody/jail? Confused and scared or okay with it. I wonder if we'll ever know the "why" of it; usually we only know when we are following the trial, from a prosecutor's, defense attoney's statements, and from medical expert testimony.
So many thoughts & questions -- and I only have a little more than textbook knowledge of autism -- so it's tuff for me to think about how his autism may affect this case. And does getting older help an autistic person -- with capable medical and personal care?

Another sad, sad case for so many.

 

[rsd1200]

With all the references to autism, I now wonder how all this is affecting him (the alleged shooter). Does he know what he did? Does he understand that he is in Big Trouble? Is he sad and worried that he doesn't have his parents nor his sister any more? Will he have empathy for his remaining family member? Does he regret what he has done? How is he acting in custody/jail? Confused and scared or okay with it. I wonder if we'll ever know the "why" of it; usually we only know when we are following the trial, from a prosecutor's, defense attoney's statements, and from medical expert testimony.
So many thoughts & questions -- and I only have a little more than textbook knowledge of autism -- so it's tuff for me to think about how his autism may affect this case. And does getting older help an autistic person -- with capable medical and personal care?

Another sad, sad case for so many.

BBM

Autistics have emotions they may just not show them in the same way that others, who do not have autism, express them. Folks with autism are also capable of empathy, but it is difficult for some.

Very interesting article on autism and alexithymia (inability to identify and describe emotions in one's self.)

People With Autism Can Read Emotions and Feel Empathy
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-autism-can-read-emotions-feel-empathy1/

 

[white rabbit]

The 16-year-old, some said, had gone through his own troubles. Kids used to tease him in elementary school, family friend Veronica Mass told NJ.com. He had a learning disability and his grades at the time were poor.

His parents started home-schooling him a few years ago, Mass said, and the boy seemed to improve. “He learned to read, did his math,” Mass said. He became a friendly, funny teenager. “He would tell jokes.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ew-year-officials-say/?utm_term=.4f6ed289f857

 

[CARIIS]

In many instances this is one reason why they have trouble in mainstream

They need most things intensely will only eat pizza -- if a hamburger is placed in front of them (depending on other things in terms of where the sufferer is at that time ) they in all likelihood lose it. It overwhelms.

Their brains are not functioning in the same way. Change is frightening and the individual suffering does not have the tools to manage feelings that are uncomfortable.

Anger, frustration.

Some must have the exact same clothes daily -- if the socks are different you could be in for a really rough morning.

Things in the closet must be in a certain way -- one thing out of place and the individual could become overwhelmed

Some are wildly sensitive to being touched -- just cant do it

Noise temperature lights can all impact their world.

Very acute need to wear football helmets -- they head bang

Imagine now your mom/dad clinically depressed and here your are:

notice some stuff dad is good he is not redirecting -- he is just being there -- there is no reason to redirect when the person is is so overwhelmed the only way he/she knows how to manage is to do what you will see

then watch when the child leaves the settings where one would think the setting is it ( in all likelihood it is -- lights peoples noises) but when he transitions from inside the mall to outside he re escalates.

Its the change again. A lot of time the best thing to do is to gently restrain them on the ground hoping they will be able to calm.

Its 50 50 - what could be an hour event one time could turn into a 15 minute event in similar environ.

If one can put oneself in the scary world they are in, and grasp they do not have the mechanisms to manage uncomfortable feeling states -- it not a choice.

They know nothing else -- discharge of feelings. They don't understand generally speaking what feelings are and or the way to manage them . They are not behaving badly they are in total distress

it like a time bomb --which is exhausting for caretakers -- siblings --its tough stuff -- but hardest in the individual in distress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlNCz-SF-5I

[h=2][/h]

 

[CARIIS]

I appreciate your posts. Do parents of autistic boys know it's common that autism turns into schizophrenia for boys? Are they made aware of symptoms? What signs/symptoms are you faulting the parents for not recognizing?

Schizophrenia and autism are different illnesses.

In a lot of mental health -- one can only go with what they are being and told and observed at the time.

In a lot of situations symptoms can be similar but they are two different illnesses

an individual suffering with autism does not evolve into a schizophrenic or vice a versa.

It is really about getting the diagnosis correctly.

and more emerges with age --

its the same major depression and bipolar. If you are seeing the bipolar sufferer while they are the depressed phase it looks like --- depression!

one flavor of bipolar has a psychotic element -- so that person might be wrongly diagnosed as schizophrenic

anxiety can appear to be OCD and vice a versa

it takes time to get good at diagnosis you slowly learn what questions to ask

i.e I discovered , that when I was trying to differentiate between major depression and bipolar (there are more than one flavor of bipolar and they are all different) to get into sexual history and financial arena.

Major depressives are generally not shopping or flirting. But a bipolar in depressed phase when coming out of into and moving into mania (on top of the world) being flirtatious and wildly irresponsible spending is manic stuff --

The bipolar are differences surround how long one stays in the depressed phase or in the manic phase , how quickly they cycle , some stay manic more of the time than depressed -- or the opposite

some cycle through the phases quickly

I am a rapid cycler. which just mo and in my situation has been somewhat helpful (if you want to call it that) in terms of managing .

Because there is a flip -- when depressed you are not all that concerned about the dishes or vacuuming -- however when manic you vacuum until the carpet is coming up or the dishes are blinding you because they are so clean!!

thats funny -- there is an element of truth there however!!

Its complicated stuff

obviously I agree I hope he does not get placed in prison.

But he will........ in reality ,.there are no places to put people suffering with mental illness in the usa and we as a society will continue to suffer the consequences of thinking mentally ill people belong in jail as opposed to a treatment facility

 

[CARIIS]

I understand. Mine has mild Tourette's, with impulse control issues. He's always been immature too, (still is immature, but better), however, he is smart.

I would hope that they would do a full evaluation of this young man's abilities, and maturity level, prior to deciding whether to charge him as an adult. There's just so many kids with some tough diags out there. I think this is the third one of these type of murders, that I've read about in the past week, and no telling how many that didn't make it to leading news.

my dear rsd

we know none of that is gonna happen (real assessment and stuff) no money.

If they tried to him help there will in all likelihood will be reported in the media as one thing - by that i mean probably would some shczophrnic diagnosis in history maybe conduct disordered adhd whatever

but the truth is generally speaking it is on e illness that has been misdiagnosed through the years .

It might also be more complicated because so many of his family are deceased so we end up with mainly paperwork

I am curious if there was a history of school suspensions or expulsions -- hitory of fighting with peers

how many hospitalizations -- involuntary admssions

length of stay will be a joke --- money

but because of his age we may never know unless through leaks

but this poor teenager is now in a total new place, has nothing he knows or is familiar , new people so they probably will just drug him so he does not need staff intervention. back to money

obviously their financial problems would have impacted their ability to get help .

the help needed for a family struggling with an autistic family member has little to do with the autistic family member.

It is about educating family members what is happening and learn to understand the illness, do and don'ts in an outburst and providing the family system a place to process their anger confusion fear and exhaustion with one another.

but again were back to that takes money

 

[rsd1200]

The 16-year-old, some said, had gone through his own troubles. Kids used to tease him in elementary school, family friend Veronica Mass told NJ.com. He had a learning disability and his grades at the time were poor.

His parents started home-schooling him a few years ago, Mass said, and the boy seemed to improve. “He learned to read, did his math,” Mass said. He became a friendly, funny teenager. “He would tell jokes.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ew-year-officials-say/?utm_term=.4f6ed289f857

I think this was a family, who, while very loving, had some stress going on (as does any family, but, some have more than others). The article read that they were living in a duplex, so they didn't meet the demand of over $300k, that Mom talked about needing, to keep their home. Dad was picking up extra jobs, Mom was still unemployed, budgets were tight (son mentions financial struggles, in FB post, after the deaths). The child with autism may have felt the stress and, over time, the bottom dropped out. Just theorizing.

 

[beandawgs]

Cariis excellent description of life with autism. There is no rhyme or reason to the meltdowns and my thought about this kid is that he could have been very overstimulated with the celebrations around new year's Eve. I know with my son he has tremendous anxiety around these times and can't handle it.


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[rsd1200]

my dear rsd

we know none of that is gonna happen (real assessment and stuff) no money.

If they tried to him help there will in all likelihood will be reported in the media as one thing - by that i mean probably would some shczophrnic diagnosis in history maybe conduct disordered adhd whatever

but the truth is generally speaking it is on e illness that has been misdiagnosed through the years .

It might also be more complicated because so many of his family are deceased so we end up with mainly paperwork

I am curious if there was a history of school suspensions or expulsions -- hitory of fighting with peers

how many hospitalizations -- involuntary admssions

length of stay will be a joke --- money

but because of his age we may never know unless through leaks

but this poor teenager is now in a total new place, has nothing he knows or is familiar , new people so they probably will just drug him so he does not need staff intervention. back to money

obviously their financial problems would have impacted their ability to get help .

the help needed for a family struggling with an autistic family member has little to do with the autistic family member.

It is about educating family members what is happening and learn to understand the illness, do and don'ts in an outburst and providing the family system a place to process their anger confusion fear and exhaustion with one another.

but again were back to that takes money

I know, it won't happen, they'll stick him in a cell somewhere, and dope him up. Is he a danger to society? Yes, at this point, I believe that he is, he is not coping well. Do these kids belong in prison? No. Where else to put him? Idk. It's a quandary. One of my children works with the severely mentally ill, at a mental hospital. There are a few folks that they've taken that have unique situations, who are not what one would call "severely mentally ill". Could that be a possibility for this young man, as Autism is not classified as a mental illness, but, to me, it seems he's having mental health problems, along with the Autism. IANAD though, just thinking.

 

[white rabbit]

agree with cariis as well.



Motive Remains A Mystery

Police are struggling to determine what sparked Sunday’s violence, but they are speaking with the boy’s brother and grandfather — the only witnesses to the gunfire — as they continue to investigate the horrifying incident, PEOPLE learns.

http://people.com/crime/nj-teen-allegedly-shoots-family-new-year-eve/