NJ NJ - Mindy Jordan, 46, missing from cruise ship off Atlantic City, 11 May 2008

  • #181
I'm not sure if this link will take you to level 9 on the ship. If it doesn't, move the curser to that level and click on it. There does not appear to be ay adjoining door staterooms at that level.

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/fleet/deckplan.html?shipCode=DAWN

ETA: A couple of green colored rooms appear to have something that runs across the room seperation line. It might be the <----> symbol for connecting rooms. Can anyone else tell?
 
  • #182
I'm not sure if this link will take you to level 9 on the ship. If it doesn't, move the curser to that level and click on it. There does not appear to be ay adjoining door staterooms at that level.

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/fleet/deckplan.html?shipCode=DAWN

ETA: A couple of green colored rooms appear to have something that runs across the room seperation line. It might be the <----> symbol for connecting rooms. Can anyone else tell?
It is. Some are connected, her room number was???
 
  • #183
Sounds like some mischief went on here. I hope they nail this guy.
 
  • #184
  • #185
If what Mindy Jordans mother said is an accurate representation of what the boyfriend told her happened then something does not add up. The only "innocent' scenerio I can fathom is that the boyfriend was on the freinds balcony and was encouraging Mindy to try and jump balacanies to join them. This seems really stupid but who knows. This would explain how he saw what happened but was not in the room. However, this does not explain how he said she hit someting first, held on then fell and the video shows a direct fall into the ocean. Deffinitly more investigating is needed!! I think the friends could shed a light on what actually happened.

mjak
 
  • #186
Her cabin does connect to cabin 9562- was that the friends' cabin?

From the Post on 5/14
"Mindy Jordan, 46, tried to climb over a railing to return to cabin No. 9560, which she shared with boyfriend Jorge Caputo, at about 7:20 p.m. on Sunday


From the Post on 5/15
Jordan and her boyfriend Jorge Caputo, 56, dined with another couple in a shipboard restaurant and returned to their stateroom at 7:28 p.m. Eight minutes later, Caputo went next door to join friends.

"From that moment on, Mindy is alone in her stateroom," the line said. At 7:53 p.m., cameras photographed her falling from her balcony into the water.


Well, which is it? Was she in the next cabin trying to get back to 9560, or was she in 9560 and then suddenly flung herself overboard? Can't wait to hear what the friends have to say...and since there has been no reports of excessive drinking, it just seems soooo unlikely that a 46 year old woman would act in such a reckless fashion
 
  • #187
How bizarre! If video puts him in the other room for 17 minutes before she falls, then how did he make her go over? If he leaned around from the other room's balcony and yanked her arm or something, wouldn't that be visible on the tape?

From the video of the ship, it definitely does look like she could have hit something on the way down. There is a whole deck that sticks out - at least if I am looking at the right thing.

This guy may be an abuser and a jerk, but if this video backs up the statement from NCL, then it sounds like he is in the clear. I want to see both. Either she took her own life (which sounds unlikely) or she had a horrible accident for some reason. It's hard to imagine, but I guess it is possible.

I wish the friends were talking.

ETA: They are criticizing NCL and the boyfriend for not calling, but I'm sure they were holding out hope for a long time of finding her, and caught up in the SAR operation more than thinking of calling people who could do nothing but worry. If it happened around 7 pm and he didn't call them for "15 hours" that is only 10am the next morning. I don't think that's so unusual for someone who was probably up all night answering questions and waiting to see if they rescued her.
 
  • #188
She was on a cruise, people do some really GOOFY things when they are vacationing on a ship with alcohol and food and gambling available 24/7. Since we do not have a body we don't know how DRUNK she may have been OR if she was using any "recreational" drugs. It sounds to me like she was doing something stupid - like seeing if she could go from balcony to balcony and maybe "surprise" boyfriend or friends by "appearing" on their balcony. There was no evidence of anyone "pushing" or "dropping" her, she was alone on the balcony when she fell. I don't think a man planning on killing his long-time girlfriend would take her on a cruise and get an adjoining room with another couple and then murder her. What would be his motivation? What does he gain from her death?

My sympathies go out to her family but I really do not get the feeling (in this case) that her boyfriend killed her - the family is understandably angry and hurt and perhaps didn't like the boyfriend and are lashing out in their grief for something (or someone) to blame - but that doesn't mean he murdered her. I just don't see HOW he could have engineered her actions (climbing from balcony to balcony) so she would be sure to FALL and DIE??? It isn't like he dangled her over the edge or carried her out there and threw her over...she was engaging is a "hey look" behavior and she certainly isn't the 1st one to die after thinking (or saying) "watch this". And there certainly is NO GUARANTEE that she (or her body) would be lost forever - she could have hit a lower deck or been rescued or her body found - the boyfriend could NOT have controlled the outcome. And how do you FORCE a normal person to climb around on the exterior of a cruise ship 8 or 9 stories above the water?

I think it was a tragic accident brought on by being giddy, celebrating and being on a great vacation and having fun. I don't think when she thought that climbing to the other balcony would be "great fun" she even considered that she could fall off the ship and DIE. IT PROBABLY LOOKED EASY!

My Opinion
 
  • #189
FC,
My understanding is while the camera shows that Mindy fell, the cruiseline told Mindy's mom that's all it shows, that the camera placement is limited. Not all murders are planned and premeditated or require a motive. I'm sure the incident when Jorge broke bones in Mindy's face was neither planned nor had a motive other than anger. IMO, past behavior is a great predictor of future behavior. She doesn't appear to have a history of risky behavior but he has a history of assaulting her. I don't know how easy climbing or what great fun that balcony would have looked in heavy rain and minimum 50 MPH winds. From other passenger accounts, everyone was warned to stay indoors and it was hard to even walk.

Morag, great find on the room number!
 
  • #190
Well this is the latest from the FBI.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356006,00.html

The FBI said its initial investigation into a cruise ship passenger's death points to an accident.
"Our objective is first to rule out whether or not there was a crime here, and thus far the evidence &#8212; the information we have acquired &#8212; does not suggest a crime," New York FBI director Mark Mershon told FOX News. "But that is not definitive; we have a number of investigative steps we have yet to deploy."
 
  • #191
She was on a cruise, people do some really GOOFY things when they are vacationing on a ship with alcohol and food and gambling available 24/7. Since we do not have a body we don't know how DRUNK she may have been OR if she was using any "recreational" drugs. It sounds to me like she was doing something stupid - like seeing if she could go from balcony to balcony and maybe "surprise" boyfriend or friends by "appearing" on their balcony. There was no evidence of anyone "pushing" or "dropping" her, she was alone on the balcony when she fell. I don't think a man planning on killing his long-time girlfriend would take her on a cruise and get an adjoining room with another couple and then murder her. What would be his motivation? What does he gain from her death?

My sympathies go out to her family but I really do not get the feeling (in this case) that her boyfriend killed her - the family is understandably angry and hurt and perhaps didn't like the boyfriend and are lashing out in their grief for something (or someone) to blame - but that doesn't mean he murdered her. I just don't see HOW he could have engineered her actions (climbing from balcony to balcony) so she would be sure to FALL and DIE??? It isn't like he dangled her over the edge or carried her out there and threw her over...she was engaging is a "hey look" behavior and she certainly isn't the 1st one to die after thinking (or saying) "watch this". And there certainly is NO GUARANTEE that she (or her body) would be lost forever - she could have hit a lower deck or been rescued or her body found - the boyfriend could NOT have controlled the outcome. And how do you FORCE a normal person to climb around on the exterior of a cruise ship 8 or 9 stories above the water?

I think it was a tragic accident brought on by being giddy, celebrating and being on a great vacation and having fun. I don't think when she thought that climbing to the other balcony would be "great fun" she even considered that she could fall off the ship and DIE. IT PROBABLY LOOKED EASY!

My Opinion


I think this is what happen as well. A tragic accident :(
 
  • #192
Yeah, well he did say that she 'held on until she lost her grip,' or something like that.

He's FOS, IMHO

JMHO,
fran :(

:clap: absolutely FOS.
 
  • #193
He sure seems to have an alibi, doesn't he? Since the couple they dined with mentioned they didn't see them drinking or report odd behavior from her...it makes this even more bizarre.

If the rooms were adjoining, the camera may have seen him go into the next room from the corridor, but they will only have the word of the other couple that he didn't go back while inside their room.
 
  • #194
Well, if the FBI is saying that it looks like an accident, I guess that another guy could possibly have gotten away with murder. I am still suspicious about George Smith. Was that ruled an accident, too?
 
  • #195
Well, if the FBI is saying that it looks like an accident, I guess that another guy could possibly have gotten away with murder. I am still suspicious about George Smith. Was that ruled an accident, too?

That's what I'd like to know, Nan. I think this sounds suspicious but I don't get how it happened by his hand if he was really in the stateroom next door when she fell.

Eve
 
  • #196
FC,
My understanding is while the camera shows that Mindy fell, the cruiseline told Mindy's mom that's all it shows, that the camera placement is limited. Not all murders are planned and premeditated or require a motive. I'm sure the incident when Jorge broke bones in Mindy's face was neither planned nor had a motive other than anger. IMO, past behavior is a great predictor of future behavior. She doesn't appear to have a history of risky behavior but he has a history of assaulting her. I don't know how easy climbing or what great fun that balcony would have looked in heavy rain and minimum 50 MPH winds. From other passenger accounts, everyone was warned to stay indoors and it was hard to even walk.

Morag, great find on the room number!

So, he was in the next room and somehow made her fall from the OTHER balcony?

And in crimes of passion ANGER/PASSION is the motivation, but we have NO reports of them fighting, yelling or arguing. And even if Jorge had previously been abusive, that abusive behavior does not always progress to murder - especially in the absence of some OTHER motivating event, like heavy drinking, an argument or a fight. Domestic violence usually follows a "path" of escalation and we have no testimony from anyone else that indicates Jorge was even angry. He and Mindy returned from dinner and he left their room shortly after, that he went to the friend's room and was NOT in the cabin fighting with Mindy (or knocking her around) THAT scenario says there was no escalation to violence taking place.

There is ALWAYS a motive for murder - at least in the head of the murderer. In this case I see none - Mindy and Jorge were together a long time and were on a vacation with HER FRIENDS. They were out in public - not hiding in their room fighting or drinking or - Jorge had NOTHING to gain from killing her, they weren't married and her death gets him what? Other than being automatically a suspect? And how could he KNOW that her falling would KILL her? She could just as easily survived and accused him of attempted murder.

And we have NO IDEA what state MINDY was in when this occurred. We don't know if she was tipsy or just did 3 shots of Tequila in the room? Maybe she took a Vicodin? AND We have NO IDEA whether Mindy engaged in "risky behavior" like this - she might have been trying to PROVE she was capable of doing something she had done in her youth? Was she ever into gymnastics? Or perhaps she was trying to surprise and delight her friends with her abilities - show she still "had it"?

The evidence says Mindy engaged in a risky act that resulted in her death - sort of a "death by misadventure" scenario. Jorge may very well have been a LOUSY boyfriend but that makes him ABUSIVE, not a murderer.

The FBI has resources we don't have and investigative tools we are not privy to. They are holding the suspect and the "friends" on the ship and they have the complete facts and evidence. I am sure they will investigate every piece of evidence as well as question EVERYONE thoroughly. I trust they will determine exactly what occurred the night Mindy fell and IF anyone "helped" her fall.

My Opinion
 
  • #197
That's what I'd like to know, Nan. I think this sounds suspicious but I don't get how it happened by his hand if he was really in the stateroom next door when she fell.

Eve

George SMith's case is still open- there has been no ruling because there has been no body.
Missing person presumed dead, that's it.
 
  • #198
While I don't want an innocent man to go to prison, and I'm not buying that Jorge is innocent, I find poetic justice that Jorge's past casts suspicion on him. Maybe he'll think twice the next time he has the "urge" to hit someone and break bones in their face. Because the next time he does it could be fatal.
 
  • #199
FC, just because something can't be seen doesn't mean it's not there. I want more info before I let "nice guy Jorge" off the hook.
 
  • #200
Random thought...what if she was in the cabin alone and decided to find out what Georgie was up to. She then tried to climb over the balcony in order to spy?????? They may have been adjoining cabins but perhaps the doors between them were locked. I have never been on a cruise. I can't even ride a ferry without a draminine. Is it normal that couples get separate cabins???
 

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