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This expert ID'ed some of the bodies recovered in the TWA crash (the one back in 1996 or 1964?). What is he able to give expert testimony about? Id'ing the body to be that of Tera Chavez?
NM - Tera Chavez, 26, found dead in her Los Lunas home, 22 Oct 2007 - #1
- Thread starter cluciano63
- Start date
I went to KOAT's web site to look for this witness's name and found this article. It is about LC and dating within the APD. Might be an interesting read later on.
http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico...apd/-/9153728/20892246/-/13bc9bt/-/index.html
http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico...apd/-/9153728/20892246/-/13bc9bt/-/index.html
calamityjane831
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Dr. Charles Wetli
I believe that crash was in 1996. I bet of that 200+ bodies none of those that died were gun shot victims.
Serna is asking court to have Dr. qualified as an expert.
Please tell jury how you became involved in this case.
Dr.--during civil litigation. To determine manner and cause of death of TC.
Serna--what sort of materials did you have to review to form an opinion.
Dr.--records, descp. of scene, tox. report, path report, photographs, TC medical records, bank statements, deposition of Lawrence Renner, pharmacologist Blaine Benson, firearms examiner Mark Redsevich, lab reports.
Serna--In reviewing these matters, what particular thing stuck out for you that helped you form your opinion.
Dr.--another thing was diary of TC
Dr.--basically the documents that formed my opinion were the diary of TC, scene photographs, autopsy photographs, formed my opinion.
Serna--how many autopsies performed?
Dr. 7500
SErna--Have you supervised autopsies?
Dr. yes Many thousands more on top of the 7500
Serna--have you ever in connection with your work actually gone in person to the death scene to investigate the cause and manner of death?
Dr.--uyes, partic. in Florida, blah, blah. mandatory including industrial and pediatric, probably attended 1,000 death scenes.
Serna--which portion were suicides
Dr.--don't know a percentage? Unexpected deaths account for most, then suicide, then homicide. Several hundred suicides a year.
Serna-been involved in cases before when you were working as ME in Fl or NY involved in cases that great interest in determin. suicide or murder made to look like a suicide.
Dr.--yes, those cases occur occasionally. At the scene, find things that do not fit the scene, determine murder to look like a suicie. 5 or 6 times in my career
Serna--did you have a role in a homicide case in which a police officer was charged with murder and the PO said it was suicide
Dr. yes
Se5rna--tell jury
Dr.--PO and wife having marital problems. Woke up, he went to get coffee and she had his 357 revolver she was a correctional officer--she had gun point3ed to right temple. She said gun was unloaded and she pulled the triggger and it killed her. Scene looked consistent with story given at the time but during autopsy noticed bullet pathway was not consistent with his statemeent. Got gun, held gun in same position and tried to pull trigger with victim on the autopsy table and could not pull trigger. Therefore it went to trial as a homicide.
Serna--did you find any evidence that incidated that this was a staged suicide?
Dr--no
Serna--Is there a phenonomon when somebody dies of a self inflicted gunshot wound may tighten muscles to hold a grip to crystalize last moment of life. (Serna is trying to get the cadavaric thing out.)
Dr.--not really, hand remains in same position unless by gravity. Nothing more than the position the person died in. He seems to refute cadavaric spasm theory, my opinoin.
Serna--why doesn't the gun with kenetic energy, why doesn't the gun, go flying out of their hand from recoil?
Dr.--don't know--seen videos when person is shot, gun stays in their hand.
Serna--very common that gun doesn't fly out of hand
Serna--in this case--you have reviewed all photographs, correct?
Dr.--correct
Serna-you have reveiwed photographs of TC body when found?
Dr.--only thing in my opinion--gun was placed in mouth and upside down, trigger was pulled by thumb. Death was instantaneous.
Serna--So position of fingers and thumb would be consistent with self inflicted.
Serna--do you know the difference between a semi auto and auto gun?
Dr.--yes
Serna--have you ever published an article about the curiosity of revolvers found at death scene where the cylinder is found open? How could somebody commit suicide and the cylinder of the gun found open?
Dr.--published article about his. Prompted by case death scene looked like a suicide but cylinder was open and bullets under body. Other factors indicated maybe not a suicide. Worked with firearms examiner with county and got revolver....when fired, when thumb was close to release latch, recoil of gun hits thumb--which releases latch and bullets falls out.
Please tell jury how you became involved in this case.
Dr.--during civil litigation. To determine manner and cause of death of TC.
Serna--what sort of materials did you have to review to form an opinion.
Dr.--records, descp. of scene, tox. report, path report, photographs, TC medical records, bank statements, deposition of Lawrence Renner, pharmacologist Blaine Benson, firearms examiner Mark Redsevich, lab reports.
Serna--In reviewing these matters, what particular thing stuck out for you that helped you form your opinion.
Dr.--another thing was diary of TC
Dr.--basically the documents that formed my opinion were the diary of TC, scene photographs, autopsy photographs, formed my opinion.
Serna--how many autopsies performed?
Dr. 7500
SErna--Have you supervised autopsies?
Dr. yes Many thousands more on top of the 7500
Serna--have you ever in connection with your work actually gone in person to the death scene to investigate the cause and manner of death?
Dr.--uyes, partic. in Florida, blah, blah. mandatory including industrial and pediatric, probably attended 1,000 death scenes.
Serna--which portion were suicides
Dr.--don't know a percentage? Unexpected deaths account for most, then suicide, then homicide. Several hundred suicides a year.
Serna-been involved in cases before when you were working as ME in Fl or NY involved in cases that great interest in determin. suicide or murder made to look like a suicide.
Dr.--yes, those cases occur occasionally. At the scene, find things that do not fit the scene, determine murder to look like a suicie. 5 or 6 times in my career
Serna--did you have a role in a homicide case in which a police officer was charged with murder and the PO said it was suicide
Dr. yes
Se5rna--tell jury
Dr.--PO and wife having marital problems. Woke up, he went to get coffee and she had his 357 revolver she was a correctional officer--she had gun point3ed to right temple. She said gun was unloaded and she pulled the triggger and it killed her. Scene looked consistent with story given at the time but during autopsy noticed bullet pathway was not consistent with his statemeent. Got gun, held gun in same position and tried to pull trigger with victim on the autopsy table and could not pull trigger. Therefore it went to trial as a homicide.
Serna--did you find any evidence that incidated that this was a staged suicide?
Dr--no
Serna--Is there a phenonomon when somebody dies of a self inflicted gunshot wound may tighten muscles to hold a grip to crystalize last moment of life. (Serna is trying to get the cadavaric thing out.)
Dr.--not really, hand remains in same position unless by gravity. Nothing more than the position the person died in. He seems to refute cadavaric spasm theory, my opinoin.
Serna--why doesn't the gun with kenetic energy, why doesn't the gun, go flying out of their hand from recoil?
Dr.--don't know--seen videos when person is shot, gun stays in their hand.
Serna--very common that gun doesn't fly out of hand
Serna--in this case--you have reviewed all photographs, correct?
Dr.--correct
Serna-you have reveiwed photographs of TC body when found?
Dr.--only thing in my opinion--gun was placed in mouth and upside down, trigger was pulled by thumb. Death was instantaneous.
Serna--So position of fingers and thumb would be consistent with self inflicted.
Serna--do you know the difference between a semi auto and auto gun?
Dr.--yes
Serna--have you ever published an article about the curiosity of revolvers found at death scene where the cylinder is found open? How could somebody commit suicide and the cylinder of the gun found open?
Dr.--published article about his. Prompted by case death scene looked like a suicide but cylinder was open and bullets under body. Other factors indicated maybe not a suicide. Worked with firearms examiner with county and got revolver....when fired, when thumb was close to release latch, recoil of gun hits thumb--which releases latch and bullets falls out.
Serna asking about TC teeth.
Dr. probably some teeth damaged due to gun shot wound.
Serna--in autopsy in descp. of GSW--where autopsy reads multiple 1/8" lacerations associated with surrounding purple contusions
Dr. associated with bleeding around the injury
Serna--purple contusions reults of gunshot wound
Dr. yes
Serna--if you were writing an aytopsy, if you believed the wounds were inflicted in so other manner, would you note them in the autopsy?
Dr. yes, when you exm. body you expect to find certain wounds. Lacerations of lower and lateral lip, dogs barking...can't hear.
Dr. probably some teeth damaged due to gun shot wound.
Serna--in autopsy in descp. of GSW--where autopsy reads multiple 1/8" lacerations associated with surrounding purple contusions
Dr. associated with bleeding around the injury
Serna--purple contusions reults of gunshot wound
Dr. yes
Serna--if you were writing an aytopsy, if you believed the wounds were inflicted in so other manner, would you note them in the autopsy?
Dr. yes, when you exm. body you expect to find certain wounds. Lacerations of lower and lateral lip, dogs barking...can't hear.
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BINGO.!
Anyone notice that a majority of defense 'expert' witnesses are retired people? Like they have nothing to lose by selling their opinion? Except their souls.
calamityjane831
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With all the knowledge and training and the level that these physicians and scientist have it takes a lifetime to gather and I am happy they consult and work past retirement because IMO this knowledge should be used. I differ because I believe people deserve a defense and if someone testifies they are paid or are currently working for the state and the defense needs witnesses also. I know some amazing medical professionals who have needed a defense and experts helped save good people. Justice is important and the process completed is what makes it so sweet. If the professionals I know were wrong then so be it but that was not the case and if LC is guilty (which I think he is) then he will be prosecuted. If the wheels of justice do not work like they have in other cases most notably Casey Anthony then the process should be examined.
Of course he is going to agree with the autopsy, the ME that did it thought it was a suicide also. No one had any idea that this could have been a homicide at the time.
How could an expert tell by looking at picture's is beyond me. :banghead:
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According to this witness people who keep diaries are more prone to suicide??? Apparently doc hasn't met Jodi Arias. What a pile of horse poo.
Benedryl--sleepy.
Dr --. sleepy, could be. People react differently
Serna--autopsy, final portion of it, opinion--the autopsy intraaural gunshot wound roof mouth, brainstem, corpus colosum?,
Dr. corpus colosum is deep inside the brain, close to midline brain
Serna--injuries, associated injuries include. mult. lacerations to lips associated with gunshot
Dr. yes
Serna--secondary tearing and associated--what's the difference
Dr.--yes, mean same thing. intraoral tearing of lips
Serna--what sort of injuries would you expect to see if somebody other than TC had placed the gun into her mouth, what if any other injur. would you see
Dr.--tearing of roof of mouth, tongue, lips, anterior and frontal teeth--all kinds of possible injuries by somebody forcing gun into somebody's mouth
Serna--did you see any photographs that would indicate that any of the injuries that would indicate other than GSW/
Dr.--no
Serna--if few teeth were broken, tip the scales at all regarding homi. or suicide?
Dr.--if front teeth were broken, would indicate something else, jaw--no
Serna--in this case were there any injuries to external portions of face, etc. to indicate forced weapon.
Dr. no
Serna--with amounts of benedryl, resist someone forcing gun into her mouth.
Dr. can't state within reason certainty
Serna--note any physical struggle by TC to prevent gun from being put into her mouth
Dr.--no, no indications of struggle
Serna--As part of your duties as Med. Investigator, do you sometimes look at other evidence aside from body?
Dr.--of course
Serna--in ofrming an opinion, do you have an opinion as to whether her diary would be sus. to taking her own life.
Dr.--yes
Serna--notes beside bed
Dr.--yes
Serna--what is the atlas of forensic pathology
Dr.--book published myself and 2 others
Serna--in connection with the atlas, did you describe various sorts of firearms injuries?
Dr. yes, whole chapter
Serna--did you include photographs
Dr. -- yes
Serna--does this atlas contain descriptions of intra-oral gunshot wounds
Dr.--yes
Serna--what causes tears to the lips
Dr.--explosion of gasses being forced out of gun, into the mouth
Serna--
Dr --. sleepy, could be. People react differently
Serna--autopsy, final portion of it, opinion--the autopsy intraaural gunshot wound roof mouth, brainstem, corpus colosum?,
Dr. corpus colosum is deep inside the brain, close to midline brain
Serna--injuries, associated injuries include. mult. lacerations to lips associated with gunshot
Dr. yes
Serna--secondary tearing and associated--what's the difference
Dr.--yes, mean same thing. intraoral tearing of lips
Serna--what sort of injuries would you expect to see if somebody other than TC had placed the gun into her mouth, what if any other injur. would you see
Dr.--tearing of roof of mouth, tongue, lips, anterior and frontal teeth--all kinds of possible injuries by somebody forcing gun into somebody's mouth
Serna--did you see any photographs that would indicate that any of the injuries that would indicate other than GSW/
Dr.--no
Serna--if few teeth were broken, tip the scales at all regarding homi. or suicide?
Dr.--if front teeth were broken, would indicate something else, jaw--no
Serna--in this case were there any injuries to external portions of face, etc. to indicate forced weapon.
Dr. no
Serna--with amounts of benedryl, resist someone forcing gun into her mouth.
Dr. can't state within reason certainty
Serna--note any physical struggle by TC to prevent gun from being put into her mouth
Dr.--no, no indications of struggle
Serna--As part of your duties as Med. Investigator, do you sometimes look at other evidence aside from body?
Dr.--of course
Serna--in ofrming an opinion, do you have an opinion as to whether her diary would be sus. to taking her own life.
Dr.--yes
Serna--notes beside bed
Dr.--yes
Serna--what is the atlas of forensic pathology
Dr.--book published myself and 2 others
Serna--in connection with the atlas, did you describe various sorts of firearms injuries?
Dr. yes, whole chapter
Serna--did you include photographs
Dr. -- yes
Serna--does this atlas contain descriptions of intra-oral gunshot wounds
Dr.--yes
Serna--what causes tears to the lips
Dr.--explosion of gasses being forced out of gun, into the mouth
Serna--
Oh CJ you would have to say that! I know you have to look at things practically being that you want to be a lawyer. I do appreciate your opinion I just don't want to agree. lol Only because I really don't like Serna.
Thanks for all the updates, woowee it's already hotter than anything outside, probably hit 100 today.
I have this trial on the live stream and the GZ trial on the TV, both defenses have a pathologist on the stand asking about gunshot wounds, I figured why not make it a three for all and opened the pic of poor Travis' gsw to see if I could learn anything about that while both these dudes are testifying to the same type of injury.
Consultants apparently gain weird hypothese once they leave the day to day work life and go consultant and start testifying. The more off hand your thinking, the better lawyers like you. It appears, anyways.
I have this trial on the live stream and the GZ trial on the TV, both defenses have a pathologist on the stand asking about gunshot wounds, I figured why not make it a three for all and opened the pic of poor Travis' gsw to see if I could learn anything about that while both these dudes are testifying to the same type of injury.
Consultants apparently gain weird hypothese once they leave the day to day work life and go consultant and start testifying. The more off hand your thinking, the better lawyers like you. It appears, anyways.
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There are a lot of scuzzy defense lawyers out there...serna one of many that we have seen.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
I guess in his view those who are most in touch with their own feelings are the likeliest to off themselves? I thought the pen was mighiter than the sword?
calamityjane831
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I understand I don't like Serna either at all... Can not stand him but it is like look a the forest through the trees... the big picture. This defense witness is just expressing his opinion and the jury will take it into account however the the state will counter act it I believe. LC IMO is guilty and that will come through I hope and believe. And when he is found guilty (lets pray) he won't win an appeal because he had a worthy defense brought forth.
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'Serna--if few teeth were broken, tip the scales at all regarding homi. or suicide?
Dr.--if front teeth were broken, would indicate something else, jaw--no'
? Weren't Tera's two front teeth broken?
Dr.--if front teeth were broken, would indicate something else, jaw--no'
? Weren't Tera's two front teeth broken?
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