No English Required

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All you have is antidotes, no data to back up that claim.

Hoo boy - no, you have no data to back up that claim. You are claiming these people some of us have met, in person, are myths. Just because you haven't met them, doesn't mean they don't exist. If I was to try to say they were 38.482 percent of all immigrants - that could be a myth. But to say that none of them exist is just plain wrong - right here on the forum you have evidence that they do, unless you are calling several people here liars who have made up the people they personally have met who do choose not to learn English.

 

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Speedy Gonzales, in the event your parents kept you locked in the bathroom throughout your childhood, is a cartoon character who is depicted as a Mexican mouse, complete with sombrero, white pajamas and a Mexican accent, and the ability to run really, really fast.

Speedy's opposite, Slowpoke Rodriguez, who's as slow as Speedy is quick—was offensive to Hispanics.
http://www.vdare.com/francis/hispanic_race.htm

What that has to do with anything - I don't know. I'm not seeing anyone using either of these types as stereotypes.

I loved Speedy Gonzales! And Slowpoke Rodriguez - loved, loved him! Too classic, when the cat goes for the easy, slow target - ooops, he's not the easy target he appeared! I was a kid - didn't see any stereotypes, just a funny cartoon. IIRC, none of them spoke English or Spanish or anything, just the usual Eeek, Smash, grin, etc. of the cartoon language.

 

[Details]

Data dosent prove anything..Data can be fixed to reflect what one wants to project. I live the life of a minority daily..I see the world through my eyes and ears..I dont need no stinkin Data to tell me I am wrong when i see and know I am right..

And what does your experience tell you about the idea that an airport wanted to require people to speak English to be hired? Obviously you do speak English, but what do you think about the requirement?

Prejudice - it is real, better and worse in some places, and with different targets in different areas. But here, I thought the topic was about speaking English.


Data, statistics, can't tell you you are wrong, nor that we are wrong - you see what you see, we see what we see. What it can be used for, if you get accurate statistics, and properly use them, is how common our experiences are.

 

[Penelope631]

The workers at the airport either spoke no english or so poor of english I had trouble understanding them..

 

[windovervocalcords]

Hmm - if they are taking 1-5 years to move here - why not? Not that she said anything about changing laws or whatever, but if you were moving to, for example, Germany, to live, wouldn't you work on learning German before you went? Would you really spend your time until you moved not ever trying to learn the language of the people you were going to live with? Immigrate to Zimbabwe without starting to learn their language, just expect them to know English to talk to you?

Wow.

You keep saying that over and over that people arrogantly refuse to learn the language when the evidence is exactly opposite that claim.

 

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You keep saying that over and over that people arrogantly refuse to learn the language when the evidence is exactly opposite that claim.

Yes - I am saying that. Because I have met them, and people on this forum have met them. They exist. Period. Just because you haven't met them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Hey, there are even stats to show it - that nice stat posted by cap that says that after 10 years, 25% don't speak English well. I'd say some of that 25% are the people we've met.

You are saying these people, who I and others have met, in the flesh, don't exist. How do you explain this?

They aren't statistics, they are human beings. Statistics may say how many or few they are, but they can't prove they don't exist, not if people have met them.

You keep saying these people don't exist - how can you say that?

 

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The workers at the airport either spoke no english or so poor of english I had trouble understanding them..

I think communication is a very underrated skill, when hiring people. Whether it is their native language or not, some people are very poor communicators, and that's a huge problem in customer service jobs - really, in any job.

 

[windovervocalcords]

What that has to do with anything - I don't know. I'm not seeing anyone using either of these types as stereotypes.

I loved Speedy Gonzales! And Slowpoke Rodriguez - loved, loved him! Too classic, when the cat goes for the easy, slow target - ooops, he's not the easy target he appeared! I was a kid - didn't see any stereotypes, just a funny cartoon. IIRC, none of them spoke English or Spanish or anything, just the usual Eeek, Smash, grin, etc. of the cartoon language.

I put this in for fun and to lighten things up.

 

[Details]

You keep saying that over and over that people arrogantly refuse to learn the language when the evidence is exactly opposite that claim.

And - no one here is having any problem with the people who do speak English. We're talking about the ones who don't. If all immigrants speak English, then where's the problem? They can be hired by the airport, they shouldn't have a problem with serving an English speaking client in their store, and we can all communicate - it's a wonderful world!



I wish it was real...

 

[Penelope631]

I put this in for fun and to lighten things up.

I take it as an insult to my heritage that you would use this for fun in this discussion..:snooty:

 

[Details]

I put this in for fun and to lighten things up.

It is a good memory - I loved those cartoons - although for fun and to lighten things up, maybe not so much that it was considered a racist cartoon by some - makes it seem like there's some point, maybe linked to cap's 'cartoon stereotypes you people are tuning into'.

 

[czechmate7]

I put this in for fun and to lighten things up.

I thought it was funny....I loved those cartoons!!

 

[windovervocalcords]

It is a good memory - I loved those cartoons - although for fun and to lighten things up, maybe not so much that it was considered a racist cartoon by some - makes it seem like there's some point, maybe linked to cap's 'cartoon stereotypes you people are tuning into'.

No offense, but the term "you people" raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

 

[Nova]

Yes - I am saying that. Because I have met them, and people on this forum have met them. They exist. Period. Just because you haven't met them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Hey, there are even stats to show it - that nice stat posted by cap that says that after 10 years, 25% don't speak English well. I'd say some of that 25% are the people we've met.

When you met them, how did you determine that they don't know English because they REFUSED to learn?

Language aptitudes vary widely. Opportunity for immersion in English varies, too, if one lives in a "ghetto" of people who commonly speak another language.

Even if they TOLD you they REFUSED to learn English, how would know that is true?

The older the student the more difficult it is to learn. (This has been demonstrated by studies, statistics and personal experience.) If you are an adult trying to function in a language you don't speak well, you are turned into a de facto child by your inability to communicate. (This is one reason why I don't speak Spanish regularly with my bilingual friends. We don't normally want to carry on conversations at the 5 or 6-year-old level where my knowledge of Spanish puts me.)

Frankly, even if you locate the few adult immigrants who supposedly "refuse" to speak English, I suspect you will have a group who can't speak English and are ashamed of that fact. It better serves their pride to say they REFUSE, rather than admitting they can't.

Everyone here agrees that immigrants should learn to speak English. But some posters insist on attributing poor English skills to willful negligence on the part of immigrants. It's interesting that few, if any, of those posters seem to be functionally bilingual themselves.

 

[czechmate7]

I take it as an insult to my heritage that you would use this for fun..:snooty:

Penelople~ Hon, life is too short to take things like that so darn seriously. It's nice to just be able to laugh every now and then instead of dissecting every humorous little jab. You need to watch Carlos Mencia.....

 

[Penelope631]

Hey..i loved the Speedy Gonzalas cartoons just as much as the next guy..but I dont think it belongs in this conversation..infact I have Speedy glasses from a pepsi promotion sitting where I can see them while on the puter..but not in this conversation would I bring the cartoon up..:hand:

 

[Details]

No offense, but the term "you people" raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

Not my term - take it up with cap. Towards, I believe, me, and others on the same 'side' (people's positions are always nunanced enough that I hate to use the term 'side' in any debate) of this debate here.

 

[Penelope631]

Every city and every school that has Adult Ed classes offer ESL for free so there is no excuse not to at least make an effort to learn the language..

 

[windovervocalcords]

Not my term - take it up with cap.

You did use the term in your post--perhaps cap did too. No wonder her post set off a firestorm.

 

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You did use the term in your post--perhaps cap did too. No wonder her post set off a firestorm.

Yeah - did you notice the quotes? And the mention that it was what cap said? Come on now - how much clearer do I have to make it that those were not my words, that I was quoting someone else? Yeesh!